The Berserker - A melee defense powerset
By
5th_Player,
Posted on: 2010-04-29 05:56 in Suggestions and Ideas
Interesting idea but this kind of living on the edge DPS is already possible in game by playing a blapper/blaptroller.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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But can a blaster live that way with a sword? Or a katanna? Or fists wrapped in negative energy? Blasters can dish out the dps, and a lot of blappers can dish it out in melee range. However, I'd trust someone playing this powerset to not die more than I'd trust a blapper.|
Originally Posted by McBoo
Interesting idea but this kind of living on the edge DPS is already possible in game by playing a blapper/blaptroller.
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Why? Blasters were made to be glass cannons. A melee character - even one playing this set - is still going to have mez protection, higher hit points, and higher resist/defense modifiers than a blaster.
Besides, Dechs isn't saying that kind of playstyle doesn't exist yet in this game, he's proposing a set that gives rewards for that kind of playstyle to a melee character. Living on the edge isn't an original idea. This powerset in the hands of a melee character is.
Nice job, Dechs. I'd play it in a heartbeat.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
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For the record, throwing extra armor on a player that makes bad tactical decisions doesn't make them any less of a liability. |
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
However, I'd trust someone playing this powerset to not die more than I'd trust a blapper.
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"I am a Tank. I am your first choice, I am your last hope." -- Rune Bull
"Durability is the quintessential super-power. " -- Sailboat
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Someone's health being low doesn't make their decision to stay in the fight - or even start a new one - a bad tactical decision. A Super Reflexes scrap who stays in a fight with nothing but a sliver of health and elude running is actually making a good tactical decision - namely, continuing to help the team when the odds are in favor of coming out alive verses taking her damage out of the fight and letting the team be in more danger for the sake of personal survival. The odds are in faver of her not being hit and/or getting a green inspiration drop over taking too much damage and dying, but in either case it's because of the circumstances of the fight and the mitigation provided. To compare her and others like her to a lunatic - on any archetype - who makes bad tactical decisions is more than a little hyperbolic.|
Originally Posted by McBoo
For the record, throwing extra armor on a player that makes bad tactical decisions doesn't make them any less of a liability.
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My assessment of trusting a live-on-the-edge scrapper or tanker over a melee-centric blaster with a similar philosophy was not a judgement of the player's skill so much as it was an assessment of the odds of that player's survival working for - or against - that player.
Because a melee character has more hit points, higher mitigation modifiers and a mitigation secondary, the odds of them surviving long enough to live "on the edge" are significantly greater than those of the blapper. The OP's suggestion is to change the nature of - not necessarily reduce - that mitigation by accepting that a character will take damage and using that damage to the best end.
A Defiance 2.0 Blapper, by contrast, views damage as irrelevant. He'll do the same average damage at full health that he does at near-death levels. Nor does his mitigation increase as his health lowers. In other words, the playstyle of a blapper is independent of his decreasing health level, whereas the suggestion posed by Dechs uses those lower health levels to increase damage and mitigation.
Big difference.
The Scrappers' Guide to Dark Melee | Kheldian Binds and Strategies
Wow... when I read through the basic idea, I was skeptical. But... I think I REALLY like the idea of this set. The only two things I think might still be a problem are overzealous "healers" and the name. Berserker sounds like the name for a new AT... not a "protective" set.
I shall have to try to think up a new moniker... assuming that you aren't too attached to this one, that is. Maybe something that is a descriptor of the characteristic one would have to make a set like this work, like Willpower. Perhaps: Zeal, Dedication, Fanaticism, Fervent, etc.
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Important distinction. I couldn't have said it better myself.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
In other words, the playstyle of a blapper is independent of his decreasing health level, whereas the suggestion posed by Dechs uses those lower health levels to increase damage and mitigation.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Nice job, Dechs. I'd play it in a heartbeat.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Wow... when I read through the basic idea, I was skeptical. But... I think I REALLY like the idea of this set.
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Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
The only two things I think might still be a problem are overzealous "healers" and the name. Berserker sounds like the name for a new AT... not a "protective" set.
I shall have to try to think up a new moniker... assuming that you aren't too attached to this one, that is. Maybe something that is a descriptor of the characteristic one would have to make a set like this work, like Willpower. Perhaps: Zeal, Dedication, Fanaticism, Fervent, etc. |
I am not attached to the name at all, and I agree that it's a bit of a misnomer. I think I mentioned somewhere that I was not entirely content with the name, but I think it's buried in replies.
Zeal and Fanaticism are good words, I think. I'm eager to hear what you think up, because I can't think of anything myself.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Yeah, those are the best names I could come up with... perhaps others could help out more in that regard?
Zealotry?
Word choice is important. Berserker, Fanatic and Zealot sound like Scrapper and Brute. Those depict archetypes. By saying Zeal, Zealotry, Fanaticism you describe a method of being a Scrapper or Brute.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Completely insane idea, and I mean that in a good sense. 
This idea is so good I think I'll use David's new name Noble Savage to get him to look this thread over and hope he can talk to Management about making it and put this in a future issue.
And I got a couple of names I think would work better for the set. Zealotry is not quite right.
- Frenzy ( Just rename the power to something else, maybe Switch them around Berserk )
- Indignation (Awesome name and good meaning. )
- Animosity ( May have too much of a Animal feel to it. )
Couple more things before I forget, I think I couple of powers are in the game already. ( (Tier 4) Resilience - Able to shrug off things that should keep another person down, the berserker is undaunted by fear and other effects. Standard mez protection toggle without resists or defense added in. What it should also have is resistance to tohit and perception debuffs. ) This is in the scrapper set Regen. (( Cottage Rule)) How about (Resistant) instead.
And This is boarder line, but ( (Tier 3) Adrenaline - You don't have a particularly large vocabulary, but "tired" is certainly not a word you know. You refuse to let fatigue slow you down. This grants the same recovery bonus as stamina, which is two thirds that of quick recovery from willpower and regen, but layer ) Though the the name is adrenaline boost, you still are scratching a hardened wound. But there is nothing I can think of to replace the name... So I guess it's cool. Another than that, Great work, hope you the best in adding your power set.
Love the idea, not totally convinced on the survival of the set, but if it does work I would totally play it!
The set looks pretty sweet. For a name might I suggest Indomitability?
And for Adrenline maybe tireless, indefatigable, or unwearying? Or (the one I like the most) relentlessness.
Good Name choice Quincy! Indomitable
Related Synonyms : Unyielding, Ruthless, Fearless, Tenacious, Courageous, Valorous, Intimidation, Relentless, Steadfast, Unrelenting, Ceaseless, Persistance, Resolve, Unwavering, Perseverance.
Another one that came to me was the idea that most defense sets are based on physical aspects of the characters like; Reflexes, Invulnerable
Or they are based on Super-heroic aspects like; Fire, Ice, Dark
How about this set being based on the characters actual "Battle-training" rather than physical, heroic or magical properties.
You could call it "Prowess" or even "Battle-Prowess"
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
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Not by much. I couldn't find the mod for health, but I know Blaster health is only marginally behind that of Scrappers and Blaster health is actually equal to that of Stalkers. Blaster defence and resistance modifiers are 0.7 to Scrappers' 0.75 and their heal mods at 50 are 120.476 to 133.862, Blaster to Scrapper. The only thing Scrappers have over Blasters is their status protection, which they need much more because pretty much every enemy post 40 has some kind of high-mag status effect on their melee attacks, where as not too many have that at range.|
Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Why? Blasters were made to be glass cannons. A melee character - even one playing this set - is still going to have mez protection, higher hit points, and higher resist/defense modifiers than a blaster.
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If you're of the opinion that Scrappers are somehow intrinsically tougher than Blasters because of what they are, you are mistaken. The only thing that makes Scrappers more sturdy is the powers they get in their secondary.
Oh, and that, by the way, gets even more skewed with things like Epic shields which, according to City of Data, provide 19.25% resistance to smashing and lethal damage, as well as some exotic elements here and there. Blasters are not as weak as people make them out to be, and they're STILL squishy. You have to work pretty hard to convince me that a MELEE that doesn't have at least Stalker level protection is going to be in any way viable, and so far, I'm not seeing it. It's a good idea, but I just don't see it as being practical.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This set should be called bloodlust... :9
Also, while reading this, I immediately had to think of Kenpachi from Bleach (which is a good thing since I love this charachter xD). So thumbs up for this!
I would love to give this powerset a whirl. I wonder how they would animate it...
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I imagined a LOT like a Barbarian from Diablo2. |
Originally Posted by Kelsey154
I would love to give this powerset a whirl. I wonder how they would animate it...
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The Story of a Petless MM with a dream
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Originally Posted by Deus_Otiosus
This entire post should receive some kind of award for being both hysterical and fantastic.
Well done. |
XD That would be amazing! Although, the Barb didn't have too many animations. They would have to add something new.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I definitely do not want another AT. This is only one powerset and is about forgoing upfront protection in favor of more damage. Additionally, berserker (or whatever the name would end up) should be able to swing an axe, a sword, his fists, his fists on fire, or whatever else he finds.
What you've described is just fury without the bonus for attacking. If you roll the protection into the "fury" bar, then you've eliminated two powers of the set, and you've made it far too overpowered. Also, the theme is less "getting angry" and more "I feel most alive on the edge of death." Thank you. I really think it has some potential, and I hope it appeals to a large group of people. It needs some ironing out, though. |
So you're describing a powerset that makes your defenses and resistances SKYROCKET when you get low on health, akin to an extreme version of scaling RES in Quick Reflexes.
I'd like to add to that an auto power that has a chance to proc with a CD of 5 mins unenhanceable that performs like DULL PAIN.... increasing max health and healing for 25% if you fall below 10% health.
Name it similar to Second Wind, but that is already an insp.
Second Chance?
Recoup?
I would love to roll a SS/Zerk brute.
Rage + Fury + The damage toggle as you get low health, yummy.
Love the set, great job! I get this song stuck in my head while I was reading it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWxBrI0g1kE&ob=av2e
"...well I have wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor and I am happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P Dowd (from the movie Harvey)
In terms of the issue with heals hurting the set's effectiveness.... Here's a fun idea.
Add heal resists to unnerving presence.
You're so ******* unnerving even your own team can't look at you straight.
You need good heals? Turn it off. Has a fun synergy with getting stunned and toggle dropping. This may be the only toggle in existance that you'll be *happy* to see drop after a big stun. Additionally, I think it's kinda thematic:
"Dude! Calm down! You need heals!"
"GRAAAAAAGH"
"Seriously dude, stop flipping out"
"HURT ME MORE!!!"
"You... killed... all of them..."
"Oh, okay. Hey doc, does this look infected?"
Also, as an official main toon stalker:
Keep the taunt aura on the stalker version, but lose the fear and up the damage. In stead, Take out battle cry and shift the rest down a tier to make room for Hide. It's essentially a mitigation power with regen, and stalkers already get tons of mitigation from their other tools. Besides, Stalkers already have ninjitsu for "that click button mitigation set" (I'm one of 'em)
Do this, and you still get the most visceral, thematic, and useful parts of the set, but you don't have mitigation tool overload when combined with hide. True, you miss out on the battle cry, but then again... Stalkers shouldn't be yelling unless they've pushed the "fight to the death" button.
Were this reality, I would INSTANTLY roll it with something less than fancy looking to primary. Broadsword maybe, with a really ugly sword. This + Villain Fury = winning stalker concept in my head somewhere.
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This. Is. Genius! I love it. I think it'd be better suited for Frenzy, the +damage toggle. That way you don't turn off your taunt to get healed. If things are really ugly, you can toggle off your frenzy, as if to calm down a moment, and let your team heal you.|
Originally Posted by Shadestorm
In terms of the issue with heals hurting the set's effectiveness.... Here's a fun idea.
Add heal resists to unnerving presence. You're so ******* unnerving even your own team can't look at you straight. You need good heals? Turn it off. Has a fun synergy with getting stunned and toggle dropping. This may be the only toggle in existance that you'll be *happy* to see drop after a big stun. Additionally, I think it's kinda thematic: |
I'm thinking about 60% heal reduction, with no effect on +regen powers, so as not to harm the usefulness of the battle cry.
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Originally Posted by Shadestorm
Keep the taunt aura on the stalker version, but lose the fear and up the damage. In stead, Take out battle cry and shift the rest down a tier to make room for Hide. It's essentially a mitigation power with regen, and stalkers already get tons of mitigation from their other tools. Besides, Stalkers already have ninjitsu for "that click button mitigation set" (I'm one of 'em)
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Originally Posted by Shadestorm
Were this reality, I would INSTANTLY roll it with something less than fancy looking to primary. Broadsword maybe, with a really ugly sword. This + Villain Fury = winning stalker concept in my head somewhere.
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Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
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That was pretty much my thinking, with the AoE hide supression. While giving a taunt aura to a stalker seems a bit nutty, the set's utility kinda thrives on taking some damage. Maybe a lower mag taunt?|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
I will take this into consideration. It's just that I find giving a taunt aura to a stalker ... way out of line. Although, Dark Armor has its control auras, which now suppress while hidden.
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You end up with a somewhat unique stalker set that gets sort of an aggro fixer feel. In groups you'd have the unique ability to attempt to run back and save some broken aggro on squishies in the event of a catastrophic aggro break.
Barring that, what about removing the taunt rather than the fear, and imparting an increased damage boost? Making it all fear?
I just saw the link in your sig.
This is awesome. I am not sure whether I'd play it, but I'd sure love to be on a team with the sort of person who would!
Would you play it?
This would be the Ultimate "Scranker". Fun as hell with Dps on the edge of your seat, and a Tier 9 power that I would probably take (which is something I currently don't do with any of my melee characters). And I also never take self-rez powers, but I can imagine taking it on this set as well.
You are right Dechs ! There are no skippable powers in this idea.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF