Scrankers

Oki, since three of you mentionned my answer where i said that i did lots of things without a tanker...

I know that nothing is needed, be it tanker, def/troller or blaster/scrapper. I was only answering to Predatoric who assumed i was only doing very simple contents because i prefer scranker to tanker.

So i wasn't takinga jab at tankers, i was taking a jab at the "you can't do hard stuff without a tanker" mentality. =)

Yours was a blank statement hence Ironmade said so what. I felt that blank statements can be made to look a certain way and so clarified.

My statement was a blank statement only if you choose to take it out of context and quote only part of my post.

Everyone can do it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Dawn Controllers and Defenders are completely unnecessary to the best of players too.

So you're saying controllers and defenders are useless? Why so much hate?




P.S. Since it seems you have to specify every single thing cause people are more interested in winning the argument then actually staying with the topic. That quote and answer was only an exemple of quotes taken out of context.

Reasons why Scankers exist:

First, and probably not the most important reason, is that there are no decent punching sets for scrappers. Look at comic books, tell me that Super Strength should be reserved only for meat shields (granted there are maybe 2 meat shields in all of comic bookdom). If scrappers got Super Strength, you'd probably see fewer scankers.

Second, meat shielding is completely unnecessary for 95-99% of the PvE content. And for a large portion of the PvE content, attempting to meat shield will slow an average team down. Why would you specialize on meat shielding when it's only needed a very small percentage of the time? Far better to be more versatile and actually put out some damage.

Lastly, defense (Res/Def) is in my opinion underpowered. It's dwarfed by offense in so many ways in this game. It's been nerfed to the point of nearly being insignificant over the many years this game has existed. The devs have not openly admitted it, but having an AT with a defensive primary was probably a mistake. They treat our secondary almost like a primary. Hell our inherent is based on our secondary.

Those are probably not all the reasons why scankers exist, but it covers a large portion of why.

I have a planned build for an Ice/Fire Tanker (only got him to 38 tho) with capped defs, tough, taunt and all the attack maxxed out on damage, including fire blast and ball. Why couldn't he be a 'Scranker' (damage aura, lots of AoE, good ST) and a good 8 man team Tanker at the same time since all his 'tanking' attributes are the best I could get (without purps and pvp IOs) too?

Hows this for a scranker farming build, he is a solo toon and will not be doing any tanking, want to use him to farm for inf, i dont know anything about IO sets so he only has common IO's slotted



+----------------------------------------------------------------
+ Built with SuckerPunch's Online Planner v5.0
+ http://planner.cohtitan.com/planner
+----------------------------------------------------------------
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Energy Melee
+----------------------------------------------------------------

01: Barrage => Accuracy(1)
01: Fire Shield => Res_Damage(1), Res_Damage(3), Res_Damage(3), EnduranceDiscount(5)
02: Energy Punch => Accuracy(2), Damage(5), Damage(11), Damage(15)
04: Bone Smasher => Accuracy(4), Damage(17), Damage(17), Damage(19)
06: Healing Flames => Recharge(6), Recharge(7), Recharge(7), Heal(9), Heal(9), Heal(11)
08: Hurdle => Jump(8)
10: Combat Jumping => Jump(10)
12: Plasma Shield => Res_Damage(12), Res_Damage(13), Res_Damage(13), EnduranceDiscount(15)
14: Super Jump => Jump(14)
16: Health => Heal(16)
18: Boxing => Accuracy(18)
20: Tough => Res_Damage(20), Res_Damage(21), Res_Damage(21), EnduranceDiscount(25)
22: Stamina => Recovery(22), Recovery(23), Recovery(23)
24: Acrobatics => EnduranceDiscount(24)
26: Hasten => Recharge(26), Recharge(27), Recharge(27)
28: Whirling Hands => Accuracy(28), Damage(29), Damage(29), Damage(31), Recharge(31), Recharge(31)
30: Build Up => Recharge(30), Recharge(34), Recharge(34)
32: Blazing Aura => Accuracy(32), Damage(33), Damage(33), Damage(33)
35: Energy Transfer => Accuracy(35), Damage(36), Damage(36), Damage(36), Recharge(37), Recharge(37)
38: Total Focus => Accuracy(38), Damage(39), Damage(39), Damage(39), Recharge(40), Recharge(40)
41: Char => Accuracy(41)
44: Melt Armor => EnduranceDiscount(44), Debuff_Defense(45), Debuff_Defense(45), Debuff_Defense(45)
47: Fire Ball => Accuracy(47), Damage(48), Damage(48), Damage(48), Recharge(50), Recharge(50)
49: Fiery Embrace => Recharge(49), Recharge(50)

+----------------------------------------------------------------
+ Inherent Powers
+----------------------------------------------------------------

01: Brawl => Empty(1)
01: Sprint => Empty(1)
02: Rest => Empty(2)

I screwed the previous build up i forgot to add consume doh, anyway here's another, i know a scrapper or brute is more suited, but this alt is allready 50 he was originally built for tanking when i had a regular team, but now i mostly solo so i want to use him for inf farming to get some use out of him.

If anyone could recommend some cheap IO's that would help with this build that would be great, or even a better build for what i want to do

+----------------------------------------------------------------
+ Built with SuckerPunch's Online Planner v5.0
+ http://planner.cohtitan.com/planner
+----------------------------------------------------------------
Archetype: Tanker
Primary: Fiery Aura
Secondary: Energy Melee
+----------------------------------------------------------------

01: Barrage => Accuracy(1), Damage(45), Damage(45), Damage(45), Recharge(46), EnduranceDiscount(43)
01: Fire Shield => Res_Damage(1), Res_Damage(3), Res_Damage(3), EnduranceDiscount(37)
02: Energy Punch => Accuracy(2), Damage(5), Damage(15), Damage(17), Recharge(17), EnduranceDiscount(42)
04: Healing Flames => Recharge(4), Recharge(5), Recharge(7), Heal(7), Heal(9), Heal(9)
06: Hurdle => Jump(6)
08: Combat Jumping => Jump(8)
10: Consume => Recharge(10), Recharge(11), Recharge(11), Recovery(13), Recovery(15), Recovery(13)
12: Boxing => Accuracy(12)
14: Super Jump => Jump(14)
16: Health => Heal(16), Heal(46), Heal(46)
18: Plasma Shield => Res_Damage(18), Res_Damage(19), Res_Damage(19), EnduranceDiscount(40)
20: Stamina => Recovery(20), Recovery(21), Recovery(21)
22: Bone Smasher => Accuracy(22), Damage(23), Damage(23), Damage(34), Recharge(34), EnduranceDiscount(43)
24: Whirling Hands => Accuracy(24), Damage(25), Damage(25), Damage(27), Recharge(27), EnduranceDiscount(29)
26: Tough => Res_Damage(26), Res_Damage(29), Res_Damage(31), EnduranceDiscount(34)
28: Build Up => Recharge(28), Recharge(33), Recharge(33)
30: Blazing Aura => Accuracy(30), Accuracy(31), Damage(31), Damage(33), Damage(43)
32: Acrobatics => EnduranceDiscount(32)
35: Energy Transfer => Accuracy(35), Damage(36), Damage(36), Damage(36), Recharge(37), EnduranceDiscount(37)
38: Total Focus => Accuracy(38), Damage(39), Damage(39), Damage(39), Recharge(40), EnduranceDiscount(40)
41: Hasten => Recharge(41), Recharge(42), Recharge(42)
44: Char => Accuracy(44)
47: Melt Armor => Debuff_Defense(47), Debuff_Defense(48), Debuff_Defense(48), EnduranceDiscount(48)
49: Fire Ball => Accuracy(49), Damage(50), Damage(50), Recharge(50)

+----------------------------------------------------------------
+ Inherent Powers
+----------------------------------------------------------------

01: Brawl => Empty(1)
01: Sprint => Empty(1)
02: Rest => Empty(2)

None of it is insane to me. The fact things are repeated could be due to controllers and defenders are more happier to team together proving some point. Not everyone cares. I could in theory tank an MoSTF for seven blasters. Do people care? No. Simple as.

My main is a Str/Will brute. I have played him completely I/O'd for 3 months straight, no alting. Now I am alting, thank the heavens lol. After studying the boars and running this guy, I would agree with posts I have seen that he must be in the top 5 damage dealers in the game. Someone mentioned stacked rage. It works.

My postulate is that one of the best damage dealer builds can be inverted to create the scranker. It is expensive, I am running 4 full purple sets and a LOTG proc. THat is why the 2 rage keeps happening.

Having said that, DO NOT DO IT!

Wait a few weeks, bring that brute blueside. The sacrifice you are making for brute rage power to get a little more armor + health as a tank (which you say you are willing to sacrifice) is not worth it. Sacrifice that armor and health right up front by taking the brute, get that bonus base damage plus rage, and SMASH on my friend.

This (Blue_Centurian"s preceding comment) is an excellent example of what I was mentioning in my earlier post.
He (assumption on my part) values the damage potential so highly that a "gone blue" brute is the obvious right answer.......for him. After all why sacrifice so much damage for that extra survivability that you really never need?

I will almost always play the tank (though I have levelled 4 scrappers and am working on my third brute) because I see things the other way. Why waste so much effort survivability and control for the extra damage that you do not really need?

It is a question of the players priorities. Fortunately for both of us the devs were smart enough to put four different melee classes into this game. That way we can all have our own way.

Well Joe, I wasn't really replying to you specifically, but the line of discussion in general. Having said that my Brute (SS/Will) has been the main tank on many Task and Strike force runs. With a little buffing from teammates I am able to take what the game dishes out, even though I am not a tank, Willpower is not the sturdiest set, and my I/Os are all directed at getting more damage down on my opponents.

So, take your tank, with the lesser rate of damage, and no brute rage. Build that sucker to do as much damage as he can. Or armor him up, or defense cap him, whatever. Have fun. I am having fun running a brute that dishes out insane amounts of damage and can tank the LRSF, the ITF, and anything the game throws at me with a good team around me. Also, I soloed every arc on redside with this guy, and have done some pretty crazy stuff to get badges for him. I like what I got, I hope you like what you got. My only point was to let anyone know, in my humble opinion, that if you were going to build a Scranker (building a tank with an emphasis on damage) you might want to go right to the melee archetype that the Devs did that for you on. But you do not have to. Take your Tank and turn him into a stalker. Go for it, as long as you are having fun.

Just make a tank you like to play, make sure you pick a heavy hitting one, dont pick stone armor, dont pick the agro controll powers, then go to town on ur well slotted attacks... if anyone asks what wrong with your tank just tell them dont judge me

I've never had issue tanking things on my fire/ss and most of the time it feels like a super-scrapper in that it is very stable and can put out a ton of damage.

rage>burn>footstomp>fireball with blazing aura ticking away means everything that happened to be near me is dead.

Fireblast fills in nicely for the st chain of haymaker>blast>KO>haymaker>blast and does about 150 dps including blazing aura.

When you really want things dead you can always double stack rage and use FE too. Self capping your damage is fun.

Build for 20-30% def, pick up winters gift and temp protection and you can tank most anything. You can't afk tank like a granite or IO'd invuln, but you also do twice as much or more damage than them.

edit: fireball hits 16 targets add in footstomp and blazing aura and aggro holding has never been an issue for the toon. I do have taunt at 49, with just an acc (thought I recalled it not being auto hit vs AV's). But I rarely use it.

I think the OP should roll a tank using the dual-build option: one for the team/brick and one for his scranking pleasure. Evaluate based on preferences and feedback.

From my personal experiance with Tankers over the years.I can offer up what people "Think" a Scranker is.Iv been accused of it many times and I cant recall ever building a Scranker.

Iv had varing experiances on all types of Tanker builds.

The most common thing I get is someone asking me why I didnt go with Willpower or Invln, to others insulting my choice of Armor for my Tanker.Doesnt always happen, but its enough to annoy me.

What a Scranker is belived to be is nothing more then another players perception of what a real Tanker build is.I cant lie though, iv seen some horribly played Tankers in my day, but I wouldnt call them Scrankers.

Iv been called a Scranker on the following builds.Id also like to note that these builds held the agro and took the punishment just fine.

FA/SS
FA/Elec
Elec/Elec
FA/EM
DA/DM
DA/Axe
SD/Axe


These may not be all the builds iv played over the years that got accused of Scranking, or being a horrible Tanker, but by no means did they perform badly.

Even I have a Idea of what a Scranker build is, and its not about anything other then there power sets.

I find Players that make a Willpower or Invuln Tanker with a Melee set like Energy Melee are Scrankers.Im sure if built and played right they can hold Agro just fine.However I have no faith in these builds due to watching teams get wiped with a Tanker like this in the lead.

In many of the cases iv seen.That Tanker is the last man standing, and is slowly getting pounded into the dirt till he dies.making him the last person down.The problem with this is, that a Tanker should grab the Alpha and hold it through the entire fight.The main builds iv seen have issues with this are WP/and Invln/ builds.

So, that type of build is my idea of what a Scranker is.

My Fire/Fire/Pyre might be considered a scranker because of the power sets, although no one has ever accused me of it. I've certainly focused more on his defenses then damage bonuses.

I can see a SD/ELM getting accused of being a scranker.

I've got a few I tried as scrankers (what I considered to be that particular hybrid).

SD/Elec: built for aoe nukage, softcapped though +grant cover and taunt so still a perfectly adequate teaming tank.

FA/SS/Pyre:Built for damage but with tough, high rech HF, taunt, and Wedding Band for AVs he tanks everything fine.

WP/SM: more of a ST build, great damage but again taunt and either capped resists or softcapped defense to nearly every damage type so plenty tough for any content I can imagine.

DA/DB: This is the only scranker I have built that felt a bit squishy to me. I have a potential build in the works that will give me extremely good defense while sacrificing very little of my juicy damage.

I guess my point is "scranker" and "team tank" are not mutually exclusive terms. After levelling every tanker powerset to 50 I see no problem with achieving both goals with one build, and its downright simple with dual builds. It would take a very extreme case of specialization (like a AV/Pylon soloist) to require you to sacrifice survivability to the point a team is in jeopardy.