NCsoft files for trademark for "City of Heroes 2"
By
Arcanaville,
Posted on: 2010-04-06 24:27 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
Never going to happen. The whole point of making a new game would be to in effect start from scratch. You want to be able to market the game as a totally fresh start. No one has an advantage over any others. Everyone gets to start clean. You have a chance to get in on the ground floor. There's no (or as little as possible) pre-established social or gameplay conventions. This is so important to a new game launch that I think the powerleveling issue is not even on the radar compared to this one.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Well if they are in fact making a coh2, it would be a really, really, really good idea to figure out some way for existing customers to transfer their characters to the new game in some manner.
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The cost to do this just in terms of the intangibles makes this simply not worth it. Assuming NCSoft is making a CoH2 I could imagine NCSoft allowing CoH1 players to transfer CoH1 characters in some fashion like four years after CoH2 launches and has established itself. And I can imagine NCSoft allowing CoH1 players to preorder and recreate their characters from scratch during a headstart period. I could even imagine NCSoft making a tool that would convert saved CoH1 costume files into CoH2 costume files. But actually transfering a character in any sense other than as a convenient way to recreate name and costume?
I think it will be tempting, but even if Paragon Studios wanted to do it I believe the publishers would strangle them before allowing them to do that.
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I don't follow the logic. Because Going Rogue is built on the same engine, its content is bypassable? Because you will have the same AT options, you don't have to ever see the first area of Praetoria? However, if the powers were switched around or a new engine were introduced then content could not be skipped?|
Originally Posted by Person34
There's no way they are going to consider this. Just no way. Logic wouldn't justify allowing 75% of a new game's content (and that is what this will be, an entirely new game) to become trivialized by allowing folks to xfer over their top toons from the previous MMORPG. I undertand folks are attached to their toons but this will be a seperate game and not an extention of the original CoX like GR is.
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I mean, I agree with the conclusion. However, in light of Going Rogue it doesn't follow that they "wouldn't justify" letting you transfer old characters. If anything, logic dictates that Paragon Studios is fine with content being skipped (hence the majority of it is now), if you should so choose.
I'd really just like to see something similar to Going Rogue over again down the road. An installation that is fit for modern hardware, but you could still play with friends on the old setup. More powersets, a new world/city to explore, etc.
And why is that you say? I think a "new" City of Heroes would suffer the same fate as the majority of MMOs coming out of late. Too few players free from another MMO with the modern hardware that new ones require are out there.
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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I agree with this, but I just wanted to note that it's not quite so strict. Many MMOs allow beta testers or people who preorder to get a jump start. Not a lot, but some. Course many MMOs are failing, too..|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Never going to happen. The whole point of making a new game would be to in effect start from scratch. You want to be able to market the game as a totally fresh start. No one has an advantage over any others. Everyone gets to start clean. You have a chance to get in on the ground floor. There's no (or as little as possible) pre-established social or gameplay conventions. This is so important to a new game launch that I think the powerleveling issue is not even on the radar compared to this one.
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I also don't think you can say it's the "whole point." Exercising your creative juices as a writer or game creator is probably up there too... oh yeah, and money!
@Gilia1
I play heroes on Champion.
I play villains on Virtue.
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You can exercise your creative juices supporting the existing game, and retrofitting improvements to it, from a development standpoint. From a publishing standpoint, I believe the point to a fork is for the fork to leave the baggage of the past behind, and launch a game with that new car smell.|
Originally Posted by Gilia
I agree with this, but I just wanted to note that it's not quite so strict. Many MMOs allow beta testers or people who preorder to get a jump start. Not a lot, but some. Course many MMOs are failing, too..
I also don't think you can say it's the "whole point." Exercising your creative juices as a writer or game creator is probably up there too... oh yeah, and money! |
I don't think getting a jump start should be considered in the same vein as transferring powerful characters from one game to the other. Both City of Heroes and City of Villains had a couple of days of head start. But you still started from scratch. Allowing people to transfer CoH1 characters into CoH2 would be like allowing people to keep beta characters into launch. I don't know of any MMO that allowed that to happen. The beta wipe is, I think, the ultimate expression of the principle that at launch everyone starts the same, and it appears to be (small pre-order perks aside) an absolute of MMO launch philosophy.
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Do we even know what kind of game CoH2 will be?
I mean will it be a brand new game with new ATs/powersets/powers, or a rehash of the existing ones with a better engine behind it?
If its the former than Character transfers probably wont be possible. Assume (for arguments sake) that they remove Power Pools (say they give every one a +Regen boost at level 14 and a Recovery boost at 20). You now have 3 powers and x slots that are empty.
Say your same toon as taken 2 Travel powers which are also removed and used in a different fasion (say at level 6 and 14 you get a bonus power pick of a travel only power in addition to your normal power pick).
Id rather have my CoH account linked to my CoH2 account with 1 subscription fee that allows me to play both. Eventually CoH will be non-supported/updated but until then I want to be able to play both my new toons and my golden oldies without paying 2 subscription fee's
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Not that I disagree with what you are saying, nor with the probabilities and all that (Which, I do say in my ramble farther up)...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You can exercise your creative juices supporting the existing game, and retrofitting improvements to it, from a development standpoint. From a publishing standpoint, I believe the point to a fork is for the fork to leave the baggage of the past behind, and launch a game with that new car smell.
I don't think getting a jump start should be considered in the same vein as transferring powerful characters from one game to the other. Both City of Heroes and City of Villains had a couple of days of head start. But you still started from scratch. Allowing people to transfer CoH1 characters into CoH2 would be like allowing people to keep beta characters into launch. I don't know of any MMO that allowed that to happen. The beta wipe is, I think, the ultimate expression of the principle that at launch everyone starts the same, and it appears to be (small pre-order perks aside) an absolute of MMO launch philosophy. |
But, things can be different. Clever people come up with new and interesting ways that don't follow what has happened before.
That being said... I certainly don't expect that sort of leap in this regard. I just don't like ruling out the absurd ^ ^
Still... an interesting (And complicated) approach would be what I touched on earlier...
Making a new game where the character starts on a level seemingly as (Or nearly) as powerful as what CoH offers around 50.
No small feat... And lots of irregularities to work out (Difficult learning curve the more options you have at start... huge task of creating a system that starts where most games end), people would say it is crazy... doesn't mean it couldn't work... And I happen to love a major challenge, which such a design could be.
Anyway... In my opinion, the most likely approach would be a major cataclysm in the CoH universe... or some sort of scenario that offers reasoning for a "restart".
The Coming Storm? Jonas Brother invader alien clones?
Perhaps a slight jump in the future... or an alternate timeline...
Maybe they'll bring in Joe Quesada and make it Ultimate City Of Heroes
We can all make our characters as squeaky youngsters...
I hope for a World or Galaxy of Heroes, though
I rambled in another post a while ago about my hopes of a sequel... Hopefully some of that pie isn't too high.
Should be fun in a few years.
Maybe some of you have time to get training and join the team for it. It should be a while
EDIT:
And again... As was said earlier in this thread... (Not that I am saying they WOULD nor SHOULD port characters over)... The games do not need to be similar in order to port pre-existing characters over.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
I dont know, as COH2 I would think of either it being centered not in Paragon City, RI, but in another (imaginary) place. If not a new place, it could always be the future or something cliche like that. Maybe after a super war similar to the rikti war? lol Would be interesting, but im not looking forward to it a whole lot, ill cross that bridge when it gets here I suppose 
" I don't let me kids play on the Freedom Server" -Oya
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Suppose you don't care about starting fresh. Suppose you can work out all the technical details. Suppose you can make an entire new game such that its possible to seamlessly level from CoH1 into the new game. The question remains why you'd want to make that a totally new game rather than just an extension of this game?|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
Not that I disagree with what you are saying, nor with the probabilities and all that (Which, I do say in my ramble farther up)...
But, things can be different. Clever people come up with new and interesting ways that don't follow what has happened before. That being said... I certainly don't expect that sort of leap in this regard. I just don't like ruling out the absurd ^ ^ Still... an interesting (And complicated) approach would be what I touched on earlier... Making a new game where the character starts on a level seemingly as (Or nearly) as powerful as what CoH offers around 50. No small feat... And lots of irregularities to work out (Difficult learning curve the more options you have at start... huge task of creating a system that starts where most games end), people would say it is crazy... doesn't mean it couldn't work... And I happen to love a major challenge, which such a design could be. |
In other words, why would you want to go through all the trouble of solving all of the problems you just mention, and then arbitrarily make it difficult to move from CoH1 to CoH2 when you could just jump on the train and zone into it? It would be like if the devs made Going Rogue a totally separate game, and when you hit level 20 you had to character copy yourself into Paragon City.
Basically, I'm not saying what you are theorizing is impossible, nor even necessarily a bad idea. What I'm saying is that if you're going to do it, you might as well go all the way and make it an end-game expansion for CoH1 with optional autoleveling rather than a CoH2.
Of course, the market for an end-game expansion for CoH1 with autoleveling is probably significantly smaller than the market for a CoH2.
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There is exactly zero public knowledge available for any MMO that Paragon Studios is working on besides City of Heroes/City of Villains. There is only some speculation by observant players that some of the personnel shuffling that has happened in the past several months may be a reflection of people being moved to areas of responsibility for some other project or to oversee multiple projects. Beyond that, CoH2 could be City of Hydrogen for all we know.
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Originally Posted by cybermitheral
Do we even know what kind of game CoH2 will be?
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Just continuing down this purely speculative path for fun...|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Suppose you don't care about starting fresh. Suppose you can work out all the technical details. Suppose you can make an entire new game such that its possible to seamlessly level from CoH1 into the new game. The question remains why you'd want to make that a totally new game rather than just an extension of this game?
In other words, why would you want to go through all the trouble of solving all of the problems you just mention, and then arbitrarily make it difficult to move from CoH1 to CoH2 when you could just jump on the train and zone into it? It would be like if the devs made Going Rogue a totally separate game, and when you hit level 20 you had to character copy yourself into Paragon City. Basically, I'm not saying what you are theorizing is impossible, nor even necessarily a bad idea. What I'm saying is that if you're going to do it, you might as well go all the way and make it an end-game expansion for CoH1 with optional autoleveling rather than a CoH2. Of course, the market for an end-game expansion for CoH1 with autoleveling is probably significantly smaller than the market for a CoH2. |
Oh, I don't think going all the way would be making it an end-game expansion... I think making it a brand new, very different (In some ways) game is the key.
Ports or no ports... The idea of designing a game where the starting point is a character who has the relative power of an end-game advanced character of previous games isn't lessened by being a stand alone product.
Follow me, if you will... One of the common positive remarks from new players of CoH is how much they enjoy actually having fun and varied powers from very early on.
Now, most of us may not feel this way any more... as we might feel like low levels lack the diversity of powers that we enjoy... and we might think of level 20 or level 32 or level 44 where we really feel like we've finally gotten the powers that makes us enjoy this game so much...
Still, I suppose, compared to other games... this game gives you some fun toys and some powers that make you feel good right out of the box.
Early travel powers seems to be a common praise for CoH.
Anyway... So, take that to a ridiculous extreme that I've not seen before... Where you start out strong, strong enough to shrug aside bank robbers and wade into a room and thwart a gang of very advanced criminals.
However, make the character advancement go from there... Take the enemies to greater extremes. And the characters now have to progress from Portal Corps level heroes to tackling planetary goliaths, spectacular supernova sensations, armies of hyper-advanced aliens...
I'm not saying they should do this or that I expect any such thing.
This is just a way in which a sequel could be done where it doesn't give players of the first game any advancement beyond what anyone else would get... but it also does not cut off the progression from one game to the next and previous characters to the new game.
I hate to say it, but make the sequel more along the lines (Please note that I said "more along the lines" and not 'completely adhere to the precept of') your character being a Superman level being. That doesn;t have to mean they're invulnerable and all that super jazz. It just means the concepts would be geared towards that high of a level adventure (Buckaroo Banzai might be able to defeat any enemy that Superman could have... but he is no Superman, and player's characters would not need to be the man of steel in order to fit in).
Anyways... I think I put more disclaimers in there than actual content, hehe.
One other thing. What you said about zoning from one to the other...
My thinking is that a sequel will be way, far and away, more of an advanced and completely different engine and experience than the predecessor.
If a sequel was going to be Mega-Ultramode Graphics with a few code improvements... I'd rather see them just overhaul the existing game... even if it is a new engine, and slap a virtually new game under the same name.
If they were to do a true sequel... I'd hope for such a drastic change in the engine and all...
Zoning from one to the other would be akin to zoning from Pong to Wii Tennis (I can't be bothered to come up with a different example, hehe. I know that you know what I mean)
Personally, I hope for all the spirit that this game has, combined with the best that modern engines can accomplish and then some through their great innovation.
Take our wonderful rag doll physics into the stratosphere and bring along breakaway walls tons of ridiculously entertaining interactive comicbook mayhem.
And... I will not be looking forward to this game for some time to come.
However, I enjoy dreaming. I always enjoy dreaming, hehe.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
People don't get too excited filing for a trademark is one of the initial steps in development of a game. Average development time for an MMO is 5 years. And that's usually 5 years from the corporate game announcement not from the filing of trademark.
So your looking at 2015 for CoH 2 roughly.
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Hehe, for me, the farther away it is (Or might be), the more excited I am for it |
Originally Posted by FireandDarkness
People don't get too excited filing for a trademark is one of the initial steps in development of a game. Average development time for an MMO is 5 years. And that's usually 5 years from the corporate game announcement not from the filing of trademark.
So your looking at 2015 for CoH 2 roughly. |
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
They trademarked the name, thats all. Speculating this early is a little over-ambitious. I severely doubt there will be a CoH2, whatever.
Fury
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Paragon Studios SPECIFICALLY.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
Because NCSoft is one of the larger MMO publishers in Asia?
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A game is not supposed to be some kind of... place where people enjoy themselves!
Hopefully, if they did make a CoH2, it would incorporate new, cool things like:
Lifting debris to rescue civilians
Throwing game objects (such as cars, debris, etc.) at foes
Throwing foes at other foes (also includes picking up foes and punching or kicking them)
Powers used for things other than fighting (ice used to freeze water/create ice 'stepping stones'
Elasticity
Weather
Hopefully they would make the engine with that in mind.
to 
TO THE END!Villains are those who dedicate their lives to causing mayhem. Villians are people from the planet Villia!
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But we'd be in beta by 2013, 2014 at the latest.
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Originally Posted by FireandDarkness
People don't get too excited filing for a trademark is one of the initial steps in development of a game. Average development time for an MMO is 5 years. And that's usually 5 years from the corporate game announcement not from the filing of trademark.
So your looking at 2015 for CoH 2 roughly. |
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That's why I stated the ability to tranfer toons 'in some manner'...|
Originally Posted by Niteshade
I think it would be a bad idea to allow transfers of current chars or even be granted a cushioned lvl (as someone suggested lvl 12). It would be a whole new ball game and many things will have certainly changed. As someone else mentioned, you don't seriously think that they would let you bypass content in a completely NEW game do you? Especially an MMO??? And why would you even want to? Imagine loading up your game, selecting your lvl 50 transfer and then - what? You don't know what has changed, how you got there or what the hell you need to do!
just a bad idea all around imo. |
Obviously how this would best be accomplished would be dependent on what has changed and how much has changed. Of course I also continued by stating that a complete remake might no be the best idea imo anyway. But even if it was a 'brand new ballgame', what player is going to 'bypass' all the new content just because he or she was able to transfer a toon in, even at an advanced level?
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Again, just because a player could transfer a toon into a new game doesn't trivialize the content. If that were the case players would leave this game after hitting fifty, right? Yet despite countless players having multiple fifties, all the content seems to still get play, just as it would in the new game, even if toons were transfered over. |
Originally Posted by Person34
There's no way they are going to consider this. Just no way. Logic wouldn't justify allowing 75% of a new game's content (and that is what this will be, an entirely new game) to become trivialized by allowing folks to xfer over their top toons from the previous MMORPG.
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| I undertand folks are attached to their toons but this will be a seperate game and not an extention of the original CoX like GR is. |
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| The reason I say this is I've seen how Sony handled EQ and EQ2. Two games with similiar names and themes, yet EQ2 has a superior graphics engine, some different races and content... it's a whole different animal. What was nice though is Sony didn't phase out the original EQ and force folks to move to EQ2, they are both supported to this day and continue to get content upgrades. |
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This is all based on speculation of course as they have announced -nothing- but I just can not see them allowing for toon xfers between two seperate games, regardless of the similarities between them. Edit: Lol Niteshade beat me to it! |
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I can see your argument for not allowing a full transfer (ie advanced levels), but again, I wasn't arguing that is what 'had' to happen. |
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Never going to happen. The whole point of making a new game would be to in effect start from scratch. You want to be able to market the game as a totally fresh start. No one has an advantage over any others. Everyone gets to start clean. You have a chance to get in on the ground floor. There's no (or as little as possible) pre-established social or gameplay conventions. This is so important to a new game launch that I think the powerleveling issue is not even on the radar compared to this one.
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| And I can imagine NCSoft allowing CoH1 players to preorder and recreate their characters from scratch during a headstart period. I could even imagine NCSoft making a tool that would convert saved CoH1 costume files into CoH2 costume files. |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You can exercise your creative juices supporting the existing game, and retrofitting improvements to it, from a development standpoint. From a publishing standpoint, I believe the point to a fork is for the fork to leave the baggage of the past behind, and launch a game with that new car smell.
I don't think getting a jump start should be considered in the same vein as transferring powerful characters from one game to the other. Both City of Heroes and City of Villains had a couple of days of head start. But you still started from scratch. Allowing people to transfer CoH1 characters into CoH2 would be like allowing people to keep beta characters into launch. I don't know of any MMO that allowed that to happen. The beta wipe is, I think, the ultimate expression of the principle that at launch everyone starts the same, and it appears to be (small pre-order perks aside) an absolute of MMO launch philosophy. |
Your advanced level argument has merit, but the idea that every mmo needs to follow what every other mmo had done doesn't. If your old game is successful and still has loyal customers in it, it's definitely not a good idea to 'leave the baggage of the past behind'. I'd say it would be a better idea to bring your loyal customers with you by offering an opportunity to transfer their toons in some manner, even if no other mmo has done it before. CO followed mmo convention and look how well that turned out, lol.
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Unlikely, as there is a 2 in the name, and they currently don't have a City of Hydrogen in play...
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
There is exactly zero public knowledge available for any MMO that Paragon Studios is working on besides City of Heroes/City of Villains. There is only some speculation by observant players that some of the personnel shuffling that has happened in the past several months may be a reflection of people being moved to areas of responsibility for some other project or to oversee multiple projects. Beyond that, CoH2 could be City of Hydrogen for all we know.
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This reminds me I haven't played Company of Heroes in a while.
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It might be City of Hydrogen gas.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Unlikely, as there is a 2 in the name, and they currently don't have a City of Hydrogen in play...
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@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
CoH2
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
Unlikely, as there is a 2 in the name, and they currently don't have a City of Hydrogen in play...
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The reason I say this is I've seen how Sony handled EQ and EQ2. Two games with similiar names and themes, yet EQ2 has a superior graphics engine, some different races and content... it's a whole different animal. What was nice though is Sony didn't phase out the original EQ and force folks to move to EQ2, they are both supported to this day and continue to get content upgrades.
This is all based on speculation of course as they have announced -nothing- but I just can not see them allowing for toon xfers between two seperate games, regardless of the similarities between them.
Edit: Lol Niteshade beat me to it!