Earth/Storm: Quicksand versus Snow Storm

I recently started my first Controller and am working on his build. Basically, I want to be able to take Stamina, a travel power, 3 powers from Fire Mastery and the rest from my primary and secondary. Obviously this means I need to skip two powers and push one back to 47/49. One of the skipped powers will be Salt Crystals but I'm not sure about to other.

Given the similarities between Quicksand and Snowstorm I think one of them is a sensible choice to skip but I'm not sure which. Quicksand seems like the more generally useful one due to the higher run speed reduction, auto-hit defense debuff and the fact that it isn't a toggle. On the other hand Snow Storm affects flyers and has a recharge debuff.

So, which one should I take? Or alternatively is there another power in Earth/Storm that is more skippable?

The -defense is a HUGE plus for quicksand. But to look at it in other aspects, one (QS) is an area or cast where you want it and the other (SS) is a toggle or who you want it effect. The end usage of the toggle as well as the fact your anchor can run off (slowly) and draw more aggro. My personal preference is EQ, I think it gives you more "control" over the situation (round the corner casting, location debuff and defense debuff).

Personally, I'm fond of both, but if I were forced to choose, I'd also take Quicksand over Snow Storm, for many of the reasons Mental Maiden already mentioned, but really, there's probably better choices for powers to skip.

I, for example, don't have a lot of love for Thunderclap; the stacking sounds nice in theory, but to my mind, you have enough other options that getting to stun bosses just really isn't worth the extra power, and the fact that you have to drop into melee range to use it can just result in getting extra battered by those un-stunned bosses while you're trying to pull it off.

I left out Snow Storm on my two Earth/Storms, as much as I like the power. Quicksand is just too valuable for its massive 25% Defense Debuff and the stragegy of it being a location-based slow patch that recharges quickly.

I tend to cast it underneath all of the other AoE controls.

I would go with QS. QS -def means you don't have to put any accuracy into Volcanic Gasses before you get a set in it, just 3 rech and 3 hold. So awesome. And when VG isn't up plop EQ on it and the enemies are To Hit debuffed, def debuffed, slowed and falling over, before you ever stick your head around the corner. And, with storm, you'll be able to drop FR on top of them also for further silliness.

Oh, and both of your immobalize's have -fly so that's not really an issue for you either.

Edit: I second skipping Thunderclap. You have so much control with those sets you'll forget about stalagtites half the time, let alone a mag 2 followup. Bosses will be held and debuffed through the floor anyway. Maybe pick up haste?

I don't get SS on an Earth/Storm. I often bash SS as mediocre; what I really mean to say is that it's often mediocre for controllers generally, and earth controllers in particular (I like it just fine on my Corruptor).

The point is this - a controller's job is to control stuff, and an earth controller controls groups better than anything, so why do you need SS on stuff that's held/stunned/knocked down etc? At that kind of endurance usage, it tends to be an unaffordable luxury, IMO.

Quicksand is different because it gives the defense debuff and it doesn't cost continuous endurance - I'd take that instead in a heartbeat.

I'll ... 256th the vote for QS over SS.

Things I skipped on one of my most recently planned builds were: Stone Prison (the build is meant for teaming and task forces), Salt Crystals, Snow Storm, Hurricane and Thunderclap.

From Pools she has Recall Friend, Super Speed, Fitness (Hurdle, Health, and Stamina), Leadership (Assault, Tactics and Vengeance) and Stone Mastery (Fissure, Seismic Smash and Earth's Embrace).

If I were to tweak it further I'd try to squeeze in TC first do to play style and the presence of Fissure and Stalagmites, stacking more stuns would be high on the list.

Thank you all for the feedback, I was thinking that Quicksand looked better on paper, I just wondered if I was missing something.

On my Earth/Storm I have neither. I don't want a slow toggle, and I don't need the -DEF in quicksand. If you are going to make even the cheapest attempt at IOing your character, you'll be at 95% for just about everything anyway.

If you want a slow patch, which Earth only really needs at lower levels, then take it. However, I'd rather go for pool powers that give my character some added versatility.

Well, personally I went with Snow Storm to bring fliers down into reach of Animate Stone, and because they can't run out of it; I figured Freezing Rain would make up for the lesser -def. It works fine, but I can see it going either way.

As for Thunder Clap, I took it and like it.

O2 Boost.

I find utility in having both Snow Storm and Quicksand, but I also find I am far too busy "doing unto others" to bother with watching teammates' life bars and trying to guess who needs it, is not timing his own heal, and will not be healed by one of my better-healing teammates anyway. Besides, healing is common, and O2 is a weak heal. I skip O2 and spend my efforts disabling the enemy rather than putting touch-up paint on my friends.

I took both quicksand and snowstorm on mine. Several weeks later, I still used quicksand quite a bit. Snowstorm only got used in unusual situations, such as accidental team-splits aggroing multiple groups spread apart.

Snowstorm activates faster and provides -Rech. The -Def from Quicksand is mostly negligible once you hit SOs.


If you can fit them both into your build, do so. If (like me) you can only take one, take Snowstorm.

Another vote for taking QS, skipping SS and also putting Thunderclap on the skip list.

As for a power to push way back, I'd consider Stone Prison since you can use Stone Cages for much the same effect. I can understand the argument against O2 Boost but frankly I've used it to save the team too many times to want to ditch it. Yeah, it can feel silly spamming O2 Boost on the tank as he stays in the red zone through a difficult fight but sometimes it's the best the team's got.

I recommend skipping the single target immobilize unless you are using it as an IO horse for whatever reason. Especially since with Earth Control your not really doing any noticeable damage with your controls that there isn't much need to get the weaker ones. Both Quicksand and Snow Storm have their uses and are fairly different. Snow Storm is a damage mitigation power since it not only does -speed but also -recharge, obviously lowering incoming damage over time. Quicksand is a damage enhancing power with its very considerable -Def component.

To the folks who disagreed with my decision to drop QS and SS. I see little to no benefit to -DEF in any portion of the game past the high 20s. By that point most toons that you encounter have already slotted their characters for both ACC and if they are IOing, global ACC.

Play any other toon in your late 20s/early 30s. Monitor your to hit. If you dip below 95% on many attacks I'd be surprised. Maybe I slot more for ACC on the rest of my toons, but I can't think I'm that far off. Try playing your Earthie without tossing QS for a while.

Do people still hit consistently? I run without it and mowing through +3/+4 is rarely a problem once teams get into Founders or late Talos. That's with everyday PUGs and not some kind of team that is specialized to layer buffs/debuffs.

Of course all of this is anecdotal and I can only claim experience of myself and a few friends. It's a great tool prior to your slotting your powers and as a slow patch it's useful. However, once I've gotten slotted I don't need -DEF for +3 or +4... and a slow patch is of marginal use to me.

Others might find more use out of it and who knows, you may love either or both. I like them, but not enough to sacrifice things like Tough/Weave which let me live longer and hence use controls that have, IMHO, a far more tangible effect on the battle.