Funny, I didn't even notice the whole mids/vs concept post when I (very vainly) posted the costume theme layout of my scrapper.
Waaaaaaay back - we're talking like, release of CoV back, I posted a guide called 'How to build roleplayable characters' The writing was awful, my spelling was worse, and my grammar was terrible; but the concept was sound. For many people in the SG I found myself in at the time, the idea was you either had to have a cool concept build or a 'good' build.
I've never believed they were mutually exclusive. Speaking as someone with over 24 characters on Virtue alone that are over 16, and who has deleted more than a dozen 20+ characters in my CoH character, I can say with confidence that good builds and good concepts are both better when tasted together. Like Chocolate and Strawberries, or lemon and aide.
I do no claim all my concepts are good, or all my builds are good. When the two synergize however, something greater than the sum of it's parts emerges. Some of my favorite characters started out as the search for a good primary and complimentary secondary - with some of the best concepts. My Forum namesake for example, Snowlily - my Ice/storm controller and my first 50. I wanted to try a controller, and was pretty sure it was going to be ice, so I did some research and settled o the combo. Turns out actually playing the character taught me ten times more about both sets than any of my research every did, but that doesn't change the fact she is my favorite concept character and remains one of my favorite builds to play.
On the other hand, another character, that was based on a very popular build (at the time, pre i4) was my burn tanker, the fire/fire Foxlily. Who worked insanely well (largely due to the broken mechanics of burn tanking) but was kind of meh to play, and wallowed in her 40's until almost i13 before I finally got around to finishing off those last 8 or so levels. One of the reasons for that is that the build came long before the concept did, and it wasn't until much later did the concept for her emerge.
One more example. One of my favorite concepts, that I have tried to make work since literally since the second week of live, is my character Superstition. She has been rerolled as a claws/regen, claws/sr, claws/dark, illusion/kin, DM/SR, and currently as illusion/storm (and that will probably not last). She is such an awesome character, with a freakin awesome name (which is why I've hung onto it for six damn years) that I can not find a build that works for her that makes her fun for me to play. So concept alone is not enough for me to fully enjoy a character.
So what is my rambling point...
That concept and build are not like the wrong ends of a magnet, they are like the attracting ends of a magnet. When they come together, the whole is much stronger and better, and the search for both should not be exclusive to one then the other, they should be conducted together, for a greater whole.
There are quite a few great scrapper types out there. BS/SD is a very good one. Elec/SD for Great AOE damage, Spines/wp or regen, DB/WP, BS/invuln., good lord! I could go on and on, but it comes down to this: Scrappers are awesome!! The truth is you will enjoy whatever you choose (I hope) because this is a great game and it is even better when playing it with your friends! I wish you the best experience you could possibly have and WELCOME TO SCRAPPERLOCK!!!! He he 
By the by, Lily... Like lemon and aide...LOL. That was great
Lol. all? have spine/wp, spine/regen, ma/sr dm/sd, love em all equally...all 50 as well.
@Possible
A couple of this, a couple of that.
Join Liberty
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Okay, wow. I'm going to go roll a BS/SD scrapper right now.
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Originally Posted by Organica
What's that? Broadsword/Shield looks cool?
*snip* |
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I completely agree with the sentiment of your post, but I have to ask: why so few scrappers?
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Originally Posted by Possible
Lol. all? have spine/wp, spine/regen, ma/sr dm/sd, love em all equally...all 50 as well.
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This.
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Originally Posted by FireWyvern
I've seen plenty of people find a concept then min/max with said concept.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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Or maybe why so few 50s? Haha kidding kidding. |
Originally Posted by Desmodos
I completely agree with the sentiment of your post, but I have to ask: why so few scrappers?
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Concepts can be easily be made your own sort of character even if it's a sort of FoTM build. fire/shields etc. Everyone can have one but what you do with it is what makes it your own creation
In the Grand scheme of things people don't know when to shut up.
Elprede- 50 Blaster Ice/elec
Flaron Llothren- 50 Tank Ice/SS
Technic Flame- 50 Controller Fire/kin
Lance Indalen- Brute 50 Em/elec
Heart widow- Widow 50
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The devs were thinking that it would be a rare day indeed when every brute, everywhere would always have 250% global recharge, a totally full fury bar literally all the time, while also being softcapped and focusing their entire build around a single target chain so you can solo all of those nasty giant pylons that show up in missions all of the time...|
Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Wow, while waiting around for replies (thanks to those that did) I read the 2 results are in stickies. I was thinking about taking scrappers for the edge in damage I assumed there would be. So much for assumptions. What were the Devs thinking? Oh, NVM, Devs thinking, heh.
K, thanks for the help. |
On a more serious note, those numbers prove very little of anything in terms of actual game play.
On teams, most brutes will be expected to at the very least absorb alphas if not be full on aggro management units.
Scrappers on the other hand are generally unfettered to run around and just punch stuff.
There is also the burst damage component which Werner mentioned. Something which is actually very useful for teams (this is why Elm/SD is such a popular combo).
And lastly, the numbers in Billz' threads did not include outside damage buffs (which was done on purpose), which further skew the end results.
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Originally Posted by Desmodos
I completely agree with the sentiment of your post, but I have to ask: why so few scrappers?
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I hear ya, really though the question is why the limited slots per server? well free anyway lol. Now that all the spots are full on my server I have to start deciding what to keep, what to delete, and what to transfer...boo...
@Possible
A couple of this, a couple of that.
Join Liberty
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I enjoyed your response and concur. Concept is integral to my enjoyment of playing a character and getting it to 50. I always look at min/maxxing after I come up with a concept that will keep my interest. If I don't like the character and have an interesting roleplay concept, it just doesn't ever get to 50.|
Originally Posted by FireWyvern
This time of the week again? Did Mid's kill your dog when you were younger?
Min/Maxing and having a concept is far from exclusive. I've seen plenty of people find a concept then min/max with said concept. Choosing IO sets over generic SOs won't change anything about your "concept" or Roleplay. Mids lying? Not really (unless there's a bug, but it happened in-game too). You can get wrong impression if you don't know how to use it, but for most part, Mids tell you exactly what you the numbers will be. Add in your experience, and you can compare those numbers to those you already played. As for you doing better with SOs then most people using Mids? Very doubtful. And you'll never even come close to what the best one who use Mid's can do.  |
As far as the idea that an SO build with a non-optimized attack chain would excel when compared to an IO'd out toon used by a competent player who knows the optimal chain... laughable.
The one I'm currently playing... what ever it may be... 
Ctrl > c is your friend
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I see what you did there.
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The one I'm currently playing... what ever it may be... Ctrl > c is your friend |
Nearly 2 years ago I decided to give Blueside a try and I made a DM/Regen Scrapper because of a concept/theme. It was a blast to play and level... even though I was a total newb and had no clue about "optimal" powers/slotting/etc. After she got to 50, I wandered back to Redside for a while and left her to linger. This past 2 xp weekend I dusted her off to run TFs and such, "poor" power choices/slotting and all, and wow, I was reminded how much fun she is to play, and how effective.
Now, after much influence spent and a bit of time on MIDs as well as crazy badge hunting for accolades, she is just a beast. I absolutely love playing her in every situation in the game... Solo and group PvE, TFs, Arena, zone PvP, whatever. Now, she is not the "optimum" or "ultimate" whatever character, but DM/Regen is extremely versatile and just plain fun. If I had one complaint it would be the lack of AoE damage, but that is not really a big deal.
"Life is what happens when you are making other plans"
I for one finally decided on a Scrapper combo that im very much enjoying right now.For my playing style it adds over all balance for ST, AoE, Def%, Resistance, high survivability, and a heal with bonus increased HPs from Dull Pain.
Im talking about a Spines/Invln.When I get to higher levels ill be adding the Blaze Epic for this Scrapper.
Why a Spines/Invln when I could have made a Elec/SD Scrapper?Simple.I dont use Mids, and I play what I like.I also built it for Concept, instead of building a concept around a Mids build.
The best is whatever you play comfortably with, and excell at.When you start min/maxing a game, it only means imagination and creativity dont apply to you.Nothin wrong with that, not everyone has the none logical spark like some others do.
Min/Maxers are logic based players, where as people like my self dont use logic.We do what feels good.
As for Mids users, my only issue with them is that the program lies more then it tells the truth.Thats why they are concerned with what they belive is the best and try to map out IOs before playing the character.Mainly becuase they cant play anything less.When other players like my self play combos they say are horrible, and excell far better then most who use Mids before IOs ever enter into our minds.
I second this guys post.
I take a concept I like and play the character for a while to make sure I still like it. Then, if I still like it, I'll open up Mid's and say "Okay, now what can I do with this character?"
Using Mid's and having a character concept are NOT mutually exclusive. You say you build from concept and don't use Mid's, as though using Mid's somehow ruins your concept. It doesn't.
We get that you don't like Mid's (for whatever reason it is), stop railing against it like it's cheating or something. It's NOT.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.