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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Wow, your ignorant.
I would suggjest a SD/Mace build if you want to farm. I personally run a SD/Axe Tanker and it makes alot of scrappers raise an eyebrow when they see the vicious damage it does.Mace hits 10 Targets with Crowd Control vs my Axe's Pendulum attack that only hits 5. SD/Fire and SD/Elec arnt horrible choices either, but for flavor you can go with Axe or Mace.Super Strength?No..and no.Pyre Epic for Fireball?Thats upto you, but so far I dont need it on my Tanker. Here's how my SD/Axe plays out in a Farming situation. Run into the mob, hit my BU and by the time I do, my AAO has grabbed up the + Damage Bonus.I use Whirling Axe and hit everything for 160 damage, and knock the mob down.I swing my Pendulum attack, and bust 5 targets for 300 damage.I use Cleave and hit 2-4 targets for 400 damage on average, then follow up the last moments of my BU with Shield charge.KA-BOOM!450 damage baby!(Note : These numbers are based on my Tanker being level 40.) Tankers can do damage.Dont listen to players that dont know.Listen to those that do. If you want to see how my SD/Axe performs, find me on Freedom.Personal Message me after reading this post, and ill give you my Tankers name, and ill happly show you how it performs. |
Tankers can do damage... but so can an empathy defender
I'll be happy to do a side by side comparison with you when you hit 50 since you think a SD/SS can't do the job...
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Not really. Tanks can farm, but are laughable against a good farming Scrapper or Brute. I have a SD/Fire myself and it does decent damage for a tank, but I'd pick my Scrapper or Brute over it any day.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Wow, your ignorant.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
I'd say Fire/SS/Pyre or SD/SS/Pyre.
I personally run with a SD/SS Tank who's not specifically built for farming. Rage, AAO, FS, SC, FS pretty much takes out most of the spawn. Then KO Blow and maybe a few ST attacks will take out any bosses or stragglers.
Of course mine is built for tanking in general, but I'm sure that with the ease of soft-capping a Shield tank it'd be easy to fit in more recharge or Fireball than my build has. Mine has something like 50% recharge outside of Hasten, and near perma-hasten with the FF Recharge proc in Footstomp.
Point in case though, while I can farm on my tank, its by no means the fastest or most efficient. When I think of farming, I think of getting the best xp/inf rewards in the shortest amount of time by repeating a task. I wouldn't choose a tank to farm if I could have a Scrapper, Brute, or Controller that does it more efficiently and faster.
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I was about to suggest those 2 very combos.|
Originally Posted by Rylas
I know of some Fire/Fire and Shield/Elecs who are laughing all the way to Wentworth's after reading this. And that's just to name a few.
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I have a shield/electric tank that just decimates maps. I built it without tough/weave/hasten (took SJ for theme), 47% defense (omg once you get there its amazing), between shield charge, lightning rod and energy torrent, nothing moves.
The other one is a fire/fire/fire tanker that is just as brutal it seems
took Tough, concerntrated on +HP +Regen but most of all +Rech (also got 18% psi resist
).Between Buildup, Fiery Embrace, Fire Sword Circle, Fire Ball, Combustion, heck Blazing Aura and even Consume, yeah your gonna get the job done.
neither build has any purples in it either, so I bet it could go even faster if you incorporated them.
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
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Not as well as a Mace or Axe melee based SD/ Tanker.|
Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Tankers can do damage... but so can an empathy defender
I'll be happy to do a side by side comparison with you when you hit 50 since you think a SD/SS can't do the job... |
Sure, it can do the job, just not as well.
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Actually it can. And Id bet even better.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Not as well as a Mace or Axe melee based SD/ Tanker.
Sure, it can do the job, just not as well. |
You don't even have an SD/SS do you? You just get butthurt when people suggest builds that are at peak performance level and therefore popular.
The real truth is, you just like being a unique butterfly and somehow think that thats a better option for everyone.
Edit: And I FootStomp for 300 dmg.
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You are ignorant is a contraction and takes an apostrophe.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Wow, your ignorant.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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Sure tankers can farm, but the idea behind farming is to maximize rewards for time spent farming. If you want to do that then pick a scrapper (elec, spines), troller (fire/kin) or brute (elec, SS.) If you honestly think your SD/Axe will beat any of those then you haven't experienced just how good they are.
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Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Wow, your ignorant.
I would suggjest a SD/Mace build if you want to farm. I personally run a SD/Axe Tanker and it makes alot of scrappers raise an eyebrow when they see the vicious damage it does.Mace hits 10 Targets with Crowd Control vs my Axe's Pendulum attack that only hits 5. SD/Fire and SD/Elec arnt horrible choices either, but for flavor you can go with Axe or Mace.Super Strength?No..and no.Pyre Epic for Fireball?Thats upto you, but so far I dont need it on my Tanker. Here's how my SD/Axe plays out in a Farming situation. Run into the mob, hit my BU and by the time I do, my AAO has grabbed up the + Damage Bonus.I use Whirling Axe and hit everything for 160 damage, and knock the mob down.I swing my Pendulum attack, and bust 5 targets for 300 damage.I use Cleave and hit 2-4 targets for 400 damage on average, then follow up the last moments of my BU with Shield charge.KA-BOOM!450 damage baby!(Note : These numbers are based on my Tanker being level 40.) Tankers can do damage.Dont listen to players that dont know.Listen to those that do. If you want to see how my SD/Axe performs, find me on Freedom.Personal Message me after reading this post, and ill give you my Tankers name, and ill happly show you how it performs. |
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Sure tankers can farm, but the idea behind farming is to maximize rewards for time spent farming. If you want to do that then pick a scrapper (elec, spines), troller (fire/kin) or brute (elec, SS.) If you honestly think your SD/Axe will beat any of those then you haven't experienced just how good they are.
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I think it depends more on what you are farming. If I am going for purples, a high minion count is the method of choice for me. In that case the killing speed between the three AT's listed is marginal and I would prefer the extra aggro control along with extra survivability as I gather and position them.
Pure killing speed is not the only measure of how well any set can farm.
I tend to agree. I farm at +2/x8 with my SD/SS/Pyre and by the time I hit Footstomp, Fireball, Shield Charge and Footstomp they are all dead. There might be an Lt. or two that survive the opening volley...but they get destroyed by KO Blow and other single target attacks. And then it's on to the next group. There is absolutely no downtime and the only thing that limits your speed is how much +recharge you can squeeze into your build.
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You can drop all of the bosses in a group before LT's? You're amazing. |
Originally Posted by SoilentGreen
I tend to agree. I farm at +2/x8 with my SD/SS/Pyre and by the time I hit Footstomp, Fireball, Shield Charge and Footstomp they are all dead. There might be an Lt. or two that survive the opening volley...but they get destroyed by KO Blow and other single target attacks. And then it's on to the next group. There is absolutely no downtime and the only thing that limits your speed is how much +recharge you can squeeze into your build.
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[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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That would be clever except he didn't say he wasn't solo with bosses turned off.|
Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
You can drop all of the bosses in a group before LT's? You're amazing.
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You want soup?
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Yes it is. If you cant survive well enough, you cant farm with the set. Farming is about time vs return. Killing faster = More Money = Better farmer.
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Originally Posted by Calash
I think it depends more on what you are farming. If I am going for purples, a high minion count is the method of choice for me. In that case the killing speed between the three AT's listed is marginal and I would prefer the extra aggro control along with extra survivability as I gather and position them.
Pure killing speed is not the only measure of how well any set can farm. |
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Given that you can tailor an AT to regular-world farm missions or tailor an AE mission to your AT, survivability is not an issue. Killing speed IS an issue. Tanks kill the slowest out of scraps, trollers, brutes and tanks. Why kill slow when you can kill fast and get more rewards faster? This is 1+1 = 2 stuff but you are making 1+1 = 0.|
Originally Posted by Calash
I think it depends more on what you are farming. If I am going for purples, a high minion count is the method of choice for me. In that case the killing speed between the three AT's listed is marginal and I would prefer the extra aggro control along with extra survivability as I gather and position them.
Pure killing speed is not the only measure of how well any set can farm. |
You want aggro control? Are you farming alone or with a group? Why are you farming with a group? You are going to make less $$. If you are farming alone you are the only thing to have aggro. If you are farming minions why do you need "extra" survivability? And by the time you have finished "gathering" them, a fire/kin troller is already on to the next mob.
Your entire argument is not, um, good.
I'm certainly not arguing whether a scrapper or a fire/kin troller is faster at farming vs. a tank.
The request was about tanks that could be good farmers.
Not Scrappers.
Not Controllers.
Tanks.
You're trying to tell someone who's trying to decide what steak he want's to order off the menu that he should be ordering fish instead. It's not that fish isn't good, but he was asking about steaks.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Very true, his question was answered in the first few replies. Now, lets us get back to our arguments please Rangle. Don't butt in with your reasonable request to redirect the post back to the path where it began |
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
I'm certainly not arguing whether a scrapper or a fire/kin troller is faster at farming vs. a tank.
The request was about tanks that could be good farmers. Not Scrappers. Not Controllers. Tanks. You're trying to tell someone who's trying to decide what steak he want's to order off the menu that he should be ordering fish instead. It's not that fish isn't good, but he was asking about steaks. |
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Yeah, I sorta agree with this. I see "farm" and I think for material stuff (inf, drops, merits, etc). I guess you can farm XP, but I'd just call it PL'ing too.|
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Dammit, PLing is a perfectly good and well-understood technical term, and it's shorter than farming. Say PLing if that's what you're talking about. Or are we just using "farming" to mean "guess what I'm thinking about now?"
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Anyway, any combination of...
Primary: Fire, SD
Secondary: Fire, SS, Elec
...should work just fine. No, it won't beat a well built brute, scrapper or controller farm, but it'll get the job done.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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Controllers? Aside from /kins, are there enough controllers to make this statement true? If you can take a small selection of one AT to say it kills fast, then you can look at the small selection of Tanks and say the same. |
Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Tanks kill the slowest out of scraps, trollers, brutes and tanks.
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Keep in mind, it depends on what's being farmed. Money? Tickets? Drops? Merits? So the OP could be interested in using a Tank to keep his farmer open to numerous types of farms. Your Fire/Kin will certainly be faster, but in some situations, he's too vulnerable. On a Battle Maiden farm, ran solo at x8, my SD/Elec is almost as fast as my Fire/Kin. Only he doesn't ever get stunned or drop dead. So there's reason to want one over the other sometimes.
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Anyway, any combination of... Primary: Fire, SD Secondary: Fire, SS, Elec |
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Originally Posted by Jeminiks
Yes it is. If you cant survive well enough, you cant farm with the set. Farming is about time vs return. Killing faster = More Money = Better farmer.
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Did you just agree and disagree with me in the same sentence?
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
Given that you can tailor an AT to regular-world farm missions or tailor an AE mission to your AT, survivability is not an issue. Killing speed IS an issue. Tanks kill the slowest out of scraps, trollers, brutes and tanks. Why kill slow when you can kill fast and get more rewards faster? This is 1+1 = 2 stuff but you are making 1+1 = 0.
You want aggro control? Are you farming alone or with a group? Why are you farming with a group? You are going to make less $$. If you are farming alone you are the only thing to have aggro. If you are farming minions why do you need "extra" survivability? And by the time you have finished "gathering" them, a fire/kin troller is already on to the next mob. Your entire argument is not, um, good. |
2 - The difference between killing the mobs in 5 or 7 seconds is not worth the potental downtime of dying. You make no $$ when you are flat on your back.
3 - I can build an AE mission that will take advantage of the aggro abilities of a tank...solo. When you hit the aggro cap, anything extra ignores you until ether aggro wears off or a spot opens up on your aggro list. By throwing taunts around I can keep mobs coming at me while never stopping the carnage.
Your entire, slightly insulting, counter argument is, um, funny and entertained me.
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Originally Posted by Calash
as I gather and position them.
. |
what
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Because you can build a controller or scrapper or brute or whatever to be tough enough so they're never spending any time on their back, any superfluous toughness paid for in lower damage is a bad bargain. |
Originally Posted by Calash
2 - The difference between killing the mobs in 5 or 7 seconds is not worth the potental downtime of dying. You make no $$ when you are flat on your back.
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Originally Posted by Calash
3 - I can build an AE mission that will take advantage of the aggro abilities of a tank...solo. When you hit the aggro cap, anything extra ignores you until ether aggro wears off or a spot opens up on your aggro list. By throwing taunts around I can keep mobs coming at me while never stopping the carnage.
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Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
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No. I said Killing Speed is the ONLY thing that matters. Survivability is a given. If you cant survive you cant farm. Anything can survive well in the AE, you said so yourself, so why arent you killing things quickly?|
Originally Posted by Calash
Did you just agree and disagree with me in the same sentence?
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Because youre trying to play a tank, which is redundant.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
Controllers? Aside from /kins, are there enough controllers to make this statement true? If you can take a small selection of one AT to say it kills fast, then you can look at the small selection of Tanks and say the same.
Keep in mind, it depends on what's being farmed. Money? Tickets? Drops? Merits? So the OP could be interested in using a Tank to keep his farmer open to numerous types of farms. Your Fire/Kin will certainly be faster, but in some situations, he's too vulnerable. On a Battle Maiden farm, ran solo at x8, my SD/Elec is almost as fast as my Fire/Kin. Only he doesn't ever get stunned or drop dead. So there's reason to want one over the other sometimes. Agreed. So long as you've also thrown in plenty of recharge and you've made your toon sufficiently durable. |
Since the thread is about farming I was referrring to farming builds for trollers (namely fire/kins.) Clearly an ice/ff isn't going to be killing anyhting as fast as regular farming builds.
As far as what is farmed, as I mentioned earlier, no matter what you are farming there is a map that will be best to any particular AT. No matter what you are farming (tickets, purples, inf, XP,) there is a map out there that best suits a better AT than a Tank for farming purposes, so why use a tank? Tanks are fine for farming but a scrapper, troller, and even brute are better. That's all I am saying.
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Because if you're going to run content over and over again, you may as well do it on a toon you enjoy. If the tank is the AT you enjoy most, then why not?
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Originally Posted by Mercury_Down
...so why use a tank? Tanks are fine for farming but a scrapper, troller, and even brute are better. That's all I am saying.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
I would suggjest a SD/Mace build if you want to farm.
I personally run a SD/Axe Tanker and it makes alot of scrappers raise an eyebrow when they see the vicious damage it does.Mace hits 10 Targets with Crowd Control vs my Axe's Pendulum attack that only hits 5.
SD/Fire and SD/Elec arnt horrible choices either, but for flavor you can go with Axe or Mace.Super Strength?No..and no.Pyre Epic for Fireball?Thats upto you, but so far I dont need it on my Tanker.
Here's how my SD/Axe plays out in a Farming situation.
Run into the mob, hit my BU and by the time I do, my AAO has grabbed up the + Damage Bonus.I use Whirling Axe and hit everything for 160 damage, and knock the mob down.I swing my Pendulum attack, and bust 5 targets for 300 damage.I use Cleave and hit 2-4 targets for 400 damage on average, then follow up the last moments of my BU with Shield charge.KA-BOOM!450 damage baby!(Note : These numbers are based on my Tanker being level 40.)
Tankers can do damage.Dont listen to players that dont know.Listen to those that do.
If you want to see how my SD/Axe performs, find me on Freedom.Personal Message me after reading this post, and ill give you my Tankers name, and ill happly show you how it performs.