Far as I'm concerned, as long as we can switch over, it doesn't make sense not to be able to start on our preferred side with our preferred ATs. If I want to experience Praetoria, I still will. If I don't want to experience Praetoria, I won't be forced to.
Why is there a problem with that?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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But GR is also about starting at neutral and making a choice. That's why you can pick any AT when you start in Praetoria. Thus your idea would negate one of the points of GR.|
Originally Posted by Vitality
YOU WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO SWITCH SIDES.
I believe that switching sides in GR should be about the story...the story of how you changed your morals...the story of how you changed from a villain into a hero or hero into a villain. I do NOT believe that switching sides in GR should just be about getting a villain AT to hero side or a hero AT to villain side...which, apparently, is what you think GR is all about. |
Weren't you the poster who asked about this last week, and when the facts were explained to you, you got hung up on the fact that you'd be on an alternate world? You need to get over that.
Just pretend you're in Paragon making your choices when you're in Praetoria, or just another city on our world. Then when you make the final choice you're teleported to another city.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Because the devs have decided that to justify having the Heroic or Villainous types of archetype in the opposing area comes at a price. The price of going through some story hoops.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Far as I'm concerned, as long as we can switch over, it doesn't make sense not to be able to start on our preferred side with our preferred ATs. If I want to experience Praetoria, I still will. If I don't want to experience Praetoria, I won't be forced to.
Why is there a problem with that? |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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If you don't care about the story, why does it matter where you do your missions? You can't have it both ways when you're trying to justify what you want. Either it's super important for you to be a brute hero, or you couldn't care less about the kind of missions you're doing. Make up your mind.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
Ok...but what about the people like me who are only going to use GR as a means of getting a certain AT to the other side. I'm going to try and get through the content as quick as possible...I won't be reading any of the mission dialog...I just want a Brute for CoH.
Let the people who actually want to follow the GR story line play the GR story. Don't force people to play through missions they don't care about just to get a certain AT over to the otherside. |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Originally Posted by Vitality
Ok...but what about the people like me who are only going to use GR as a means of getting a certain AT to the other side. I'm going to try and get through the content as quick as possible...I won't be reading any of the mission dialog...I just want a Brute for CoH.
Let the people who actually want to follow the GR story line play the GR story. Don't force people to play through missions they don't care about just to get a certain AT over to the otherside. |
- That sounds like the n00bs who just want to rush to the end. " PL meh! I don't care about the game."
- I am pretty sure this is totally counter to the desire of the devs. I actually believe they WANT people to experience the switching process, and other new content they are slaving over.
- You might also while you are at it ask for the ability to just create new alts that are 50 from the beginning. You DO want a 50 Brute hero right? and you don.t care about the content?
- Get used to disappointment.
The more the OP posts, the more it's obvious why the devs are making people go through the new content. The Idea that there are players that are averse to exploring areas outside of Paragon makes it more necessary to make content outside of Paragon mandatory. If you don't, they won't touch it. And if they won't touch it, you've spent the time on it in vain, as far as that customer is concerned.
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I care about my story...I care about the story in CoH.|
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
If you don't care about the story, why does it matter where you do your missions? You can't have it both ways when you're trying to justify what you want. Either it's super important for you to be a brute hero, or you couldn't care less about the kind of missions you're doing. Make up your mind.
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I don't care about the side-switching story because I want my character to be a hero from the start.
Customers don't want to see your new stuff? Fine, let them linger in the old crap, if that's what they want. Customers not seeing your new stuff isn't going to hurt your business, because it's not like you're trying to take the old stuff away.
Every argument against this idea is based on a nonsensical stance of "people have to see the new stuff, end of story". That's not sound business, nor a reasonable stance to hold on any issue, business or no.
You tie the idea to buying the expansion and all arguments against the idea vanish immediately. There is no reason not to do this.
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You all are misunderstanding.|
Originally Posted by stever
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The reason I brought this suggestion up is because I care about the story I create for my character...I care about the missions they run.
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Way to avoid the most common response: It's a waste of resources.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Customers don't want to see your new stuff? Fine, let them linger in the old crap, if that's what they want. Customers not seeing your new stuff isn't going to hurt your business, because it's not like you're trying to take the old stuff away.
Every argument against this idea is based on a nonsensical stance of "people have to see the new stuff, end of story". That's not sound business, nor a reasonable stance to hold on any issue, business or no. You tie the idea to buying the expansion and all arguments against the idea vanish immediately. There is no reason not to do this. |
It's no different than stating that the devs should change the way you get Vanguard costume pieces.
Why? You get them with merits. That's how you get them.
In exactly the same way, you get a brute hero side with the two options given to you to do so.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Please explain how "It's a waste of resources"
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Way to avoid the most common response: It's a waste of resources.
It's no different than stating that the devs should change the way you get Vanguard costume pieces. Why? You get them with merits. That's how you get them. In exactly the same way, you get a brute hero side with the two options given to you to do so. |
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Considering that the "hard parts" of allowing the selection of all fourteen ATs on both sides of the game are already dealt with in the expansion, adding those options to the character creation screen should be trivial.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Way to avoid the most common response: It's a waste of resources.
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I'd have to disagree. Why is it nonsense? Why is it bad business? Why is it unreasonable?|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Customers don't want to see your new stuff? Fine, let them linger in the old crap, if that's what they want. Customers not seeing your new stuff isn't going to hurt your business, because it's not like you're trying to take the old stuff away.
Every argument against this idea is based on a nonsensical stance of "people have to see the new stuff, end of story". That's not sound business, nor a reasonable stance to hold on any issue, business or no. You tie the idea to buying the expansion and all arguments against the idea vanish immediately. There is no reason not to do this. |
Development time has to be justified. Why? It's money spent. And in this case, it's an expansion that will bring even more profit. Channeling people to it doesn't just show that wages were put to a place that consumers have made use of, it brings in profit, and making sure the content is used 'justifies' the upgrade price.
The developers will never go so far as to force the player into the new stuff. But they will give a firm nudge towards it. Hence why on logging in for new stuff like inventions, the architect and events there are big messages directing players towards it.
The devs aren't zoning people into Praetoria. They aren't making it so you can't do other content or start where you used to...they're just making sure that the bright an shiny stuff happens in bright and shiny land, not dusty land.
....And don't forget, the lore side of things. The new world justifies why people can do new things they haven't done until now.
Vitality, why do you keep posting new threads on the same topic?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=211101
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=209897
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I just did. Twice.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
Please explain how "It's a waste of resources"
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Be well, people of CoH.
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...because when I posted those we didn't have that much info.|
Originally Posted by SadronMeldir
Vitality, why do you keep posting new threads on the same topic?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=211101 http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=209897 |
...because this is something I feel strong about...this is one thing I extremely want.
...because there is no reason not to do this and I'm trying to find out why it's not being done.
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I think everyone needs to actually read this post.|
Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
Customers don't want to see your new stuff? Fine, let them linger in the old crap, if that's what they want. Customers not seeing your new stuff isn't going to hurt your business, because it's not like you're trying to take the old stuff away.
Every argument against this idea is based on a nonsensical stance of "people have to see the new stuff, end of story". That's not sound business, nor a reasonable stance to hold on any issue, business or no. You tie the idea to buying the expansion and all arguments against the idea vanish immediately. There is no reason not to do this. |
There is no reason not to do this.
It's a win-win situation.
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Your comparison is absurd.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Way to avoid the most common response: It's a waste of resources.
It's no different than stating that the devs should change the way you get Vanguard costume pieces. Why? You get them with merits. That's how you get them. In exactly the same way, you get a brute hero side with the two options given to you to do so. |
You get Vanguard costume pieces with merits, yes, but you get the vanguard costume piece merits by joining vanguard and running vanguard mission. That makes perfect sense...because you shouldnt be able to get vanguard costume pieces without being a member.
To force a backstory on our character in order to play a certain AT on a certain side is not the same thing at all.
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because he is that much of a (person living in a cave or under a bridge) that he can't accept the answers he has been given until someone says fine. heaven forbid that he have to RP some trivial thing in an MMORPG.
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Originally Posted by SadronMeldir
Vitality, why do you keep posting new threads on the same topic?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=211101 http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=209897 |
Sir, many people have explained with multiple reasons why the developers have made the decision they seem to have made. The post you quote restates you position while not dealing with the reasons others have brought up why things have taken the course they have. If you won't see things from another point of view, what is the point of starting a discussion on the topic?
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I understand that...my point is that the "reasons" make no sense given the suggestion to add this proliferation to the GR expansion.
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Originally Posted by Seldom
Sir, many people have explained with multiple reasons why the developers have made the decision they seem to have made. The post you quote restates you position while not dealing with the reasons others have brought up why things have taken the course they have. If you won't see things from another point of view, what is the point of starting a discussion on the topic?
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the reasons make plenty of sense. it just the thickness of your cranium that is making it difficult for you to understand. |
Originally Posted by Vitality
I understand that...my point is that the "reasons" make no sense given the suggestion to add this proliferation to the GR expansion.
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YOU DO NOT have to start out as just a vill or hero. you can start out as a neutral faction in preatoria. it is that simple. then you chose your path. so that brute you want to be a hero can be. and he doesn't have to be labled vill first. remember that not all heroes started either vill or hero, they made choices which side to be on, which is what the devs are giving us.
I will post this again to reiterate...
If you are against this...no matter who you are...
Then your basically saying that you and everyone else will ONLY be playing the GR content JUST to get a certain AT to the other side...which is saying that no one really wants to play the GR content to begin with.
I personally believe that people would still play the GR content even if you proliferated the ATs.
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...but you still have to start in praetoria.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
the reasons make plenty of sense. it just the thickness of your cranium that is making it difficult for you to understand.
YOU DO NOT have to start out as just a vill or hero. you can start out as a neutral faction in preatoria. it is that simple. then you chose your path. so that brute you want to be a hero can be. and he doesn't have to be labled vill first. remember that not all heroes started either vill or hero, they made choices which side to be on, which is what the devs are giving us. |
I understand that most players could care less...but there are some, including myself, who do care.
That's why I said my suggestion is a win-win.
For those who didn't care to begin with...well...they still don't care.
For those who do care...this makes them happy.
For the devs...they still get paid.
So it's actually a win-win-win situation.
My own personal example of why I am suggesting this...
I want a hero Brute.
I don't want to be a villain first...I want to be a hero from the start.
I don't want to be from another dimension called Praetoria...I want to be from earth.
I want to start out as a hero Brute from earth.
The way GR is set up...I would never be able to do that.
My main has to make due with claws coming out of the back of his hands instead of having talons.
I have to wait several more months before he can have fly without wasting a power pick on air superiority or hover.
I have to waste a power pick on boxing or kick before I can take tough and weave.
You are being given two different paths to have a brute be a hero. Use them.
The problem with your wish is that it goes against the design of the game. Just as my wishes go against the design of the game. We deal with it and move on.
Be well, people of CoH.