Whats the difference between "to hit" & "accuracy"
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-03-03 09:23 in Player Questions
ToHit is better. 'nuff said.
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Attack Mechanics
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Got Inf?
There are about four explanations of varying levels of complexity and accuracy, with ever-weirder exceptions being accounted for.
The simplest thing: You have Accuracy (from slotting) and To Hit(per character.) To Hit is modified based on a few things, like enemy level and any current debuffs , but is generally 75% for a typical power, being used on an even-level enemy. Accuracy is modified by your Acc Enhancements and any global set bonuses (from, say, four Thunderstrikes.) You multiply those two together to find your Final To Hit. Your Final To Hit can't go over 95%.
SIMPLEST CASE: You have a single 16.7% Acc DO in Fire Bolt, and you shoot an even-con Clockwork with it. Your Accuracy term is 116.7% because of the enhancement and your To Hit is 75% (shooting an even-con with a regular power) so your Final To Hit is 75% * 1.167 or 87.5% .
EXAMPLE OF A STUPIDLY COMPLEX CASE: You've got 40% Acc slotted in Hack, a 28% global Acc Bonus, you're attacking a +2 Spectral Knight, and you've been To Hit debuffed by 20% from various ghost attacks.
ACC TERM: 100% +40% +28% = 168%.
TO HIT TERM: 59% (base vs. a +2) + 5% (Hack has a 5% To Hit Bonus) -20% (To Hit debuffs) =44%.
FINAL TO HIT: 44% * 1.68 = 74% .
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As far as I know, no power has a to-hit bonus, not like you are saying. The bonus for weapon powers is an Accuracy bonus (Hack has a 1.05 base accuracy).|
Originally Posted by Fulmens
EXAMPLE OF A STUPIDLY COMPLEX CASE: You've got 40% Acc slotted in Hack, a 28% global Acc Bonus, you're attacking a +2 Spectral Knight, and you've been To Hit debuffed by 20% from various ghost attacks.
ACC TERM: 100% +40% +28% = 168%. TO HIT TERM: 59% (base vs. a +2) + 5% (Hack has a 5% To Hit Bonus) -20% (To Hit debuffs) =44%. FINAL TO HIT: 44% * 1.68 = 74% . |
Wiki also lists a base of 56% vs. +2 critters, not 59.
So it would actually be 36*1.73=62.28% Chance to hit, if Spectrals have no defense.
Also, no power has a To-Hit value - that is a character value.
To the OP :
To paraphrase the linked Wiki article :
To-Hit is a player value. This value is directly opposed by your targets defense. So if your +0 target had 10% defense, your to-hit against him is 65%. After taking into consideration your opponents defense, your to-hit, if below 5% or over 95%, is set to 5/95 respectively.
Then that is multiplied by Accuracy. In PvP, there is "elusivity" to counteract this, but it isn't in PvE. Again, the final result is adjusted to a value of no lower than 5%/higher than 95% if need be. That's your final to-hit.
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Quote:
Correct. It's important to remember that for attacks with an accuracy other than 1.00 you need to multiply the accuracy by the enhcanement.|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
As far as I know, no power has a to-hit bonus, not like you are saying. The bonus for weapon powers is an Accuracy bonus (Hack has a 1.05 base accuracy).
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So Accuracy would be 1.05 * (100% + 40% + 28%)
Cool, I learned something new 
So it's approx 63.5% final chance to hit on the above example.
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In short, To Hit adds directly to your chance to hit, which is usually 75%. If you have a To Hit bonus (such as from Tactics) it will effect all attacks or powers you use on an enemy.
Accuracy usually effects only that attack. It is a multiplier to your to hit, and base Accuracy is 100%, so if you have +20% accuracy, that means you multiply the 75% chance you have to hit the enemy by 120%, giving you 90% to hit.
For that example, then, +20% to hit would add 20% to your to hit, but +20% accuracy would only add 15% to your to hit. That's the difference between adding and multiplying.
The simple answer: +to hit is applied before defence, +accuracy applied after. So +to hit generally has a greater effect on overcoming defence.
Would an acceptable overview be: Accuracy enhancements make the weapon more accurate, and ToHit buffs make you a better marksman?
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I like it. It's accurate (no pun intended), and describes the situation very well.
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Originally Posted by Super Firebug
Would an acceptable overview be: Accuracy enhancements make the weapon more accurate, and ToHit buffs make you a better marksman?
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The even simpler answer is:
Accuracy is multiplicative and ToHit is additive.
Your BaseToHitRoll versus an even level PvE foe is 75%.
- If you have 10% +ToHit, then your FinalToHitRoll will become 85% (75 + 10)%.
- But if you have 10% Accuracy, then your FinalToHitRoll will become 82.5% (75 + [10%*75])%.
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I see maths.
I suspect it's time to run and hide in a bunker before the math-nuke from Arcanaville hits, which takes into account quantum variations in keyboards, string theory, string cheese, the heat death of the universe, age, specific variations of the color yellow, and how much rum is left.
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Well, the last item on the list isn't that important, since the rum is always gone.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I see maths.
I suspect it's time to run and hide in a bunker before the math-nuke from Arcanaville hits, which takes into account quantum variations in keyboards, string theory, string cheese, the heat death of the universe, age, specific variations of the color yellow, and how much rum is left. |
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Only after the Governor's daughter gets to it.
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Originally Posted by ArcticFahx
Well, the last item on the list isn't that important, since the rum is always gone.
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
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Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
I see what you are saying, but this is not quite accurate. Several powers have a To-Hit bonus. If a buff "helps you hit," then it likely does have a ToHit bonus. Leadership: Tactics and a Fortunata's Mind Link both grant a bonus to ToHit.|
Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
As far as I know, no power has a to-hit bonus,
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I think what you mean was than when you slot a power, the enhancements grant accuracy rather than ToHit.
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Originally Posted by Zombie Man
Accuracy is multiplicative and ToHit is additive.
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The base formula is:
Hit Check Roll = (1+Accuracy) * (Base ToHit + ToHit Buffs) - Defense.
There's more too it than that. There's a couple of "clamps" where a calculation is not allowed to go over 95% or under 5%, and there's ToHit debuffs, and debuffs to your opponents defense, and level figures into your base ToHit, and probably a few more things, but that's the gist of it.
Your base ToHit against an even level opponent is 75%, or 0.75. Let's say you or someone on your team is running Leadership: Tactics for + 10% ToHit buff. Let's also say you just activated a power with two +30% Accuracy IOs slotted into (and maybe some damage IOs too, but damage only takes effect after you score a hit). Your target has no defense.
Your roll is:
= 1.60 * (0.75 + 0.10) - 0
= 1.60 * (0.85)
= 1.36
or 136% chance to hit. However the "clamp" takes effect here and limits you to a 95% chance. The extra 41% here is "extra" and just counts "in case". In case you had a to hit debuff, or your opponent was higher level, or in case your opponent had some defense, you'd still have the maximum to hit, 95%, until one of those values exceeded 41%. Then your actual to hit would start to go down.
Lastly, besides the Combat Attributes, there's also a chat pane in the same area as the General Chat and the Help Chat, called Combat. You can actually see your to-hit and damage rolls there (along with other stuff). So if you want to see the "final result" of any attack, you can just look at that pane and it will tell you if you had a 95% chance to hit or a 45% chance to hit, along with the actual "roll" random number the server generated.
Hit Check Roll = (1+Accuracy) * [(Base ToHit + ToHit Buffs) - Defense]
Isn't this more correct? As your example would have acc multiplying by to-hit before the defense is accounted for.
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www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
Quote:
No. Accuracy does not multiply your opponent's defense.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Hit Check Roll = (1+Accuracy) * [(Base ToHit + ToHit Buffs) - Defense]
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Quote:
Ummm...look at the brackets. Everything within the brackets happens before it is multiplied against accuracy. So, you have your accuracy value (including buffs and debuffs) multiplied by your ToHit (including ToHit buffs, ToHit debuffs, and opponents defense).
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
No. Accuracy does not multiply your opponent's defense.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Ummm...look at the brackets. Everything within the brackets happens before it is multiplied against accuracy. So, you have your accuracy value (including buffs and debuffs) multiplied by your ToHit (including ToHit buffs, ToHit debuffs, and opponents defense).
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So I double checked with the wiki and, yup, Accuracy does multiply your opponent's defense. If you take the formula and distribute algebraically:
= Accuracy * ((Base to Hit + To Hit buffs) - Defense)
= Accuracy * (Base to Hit + To Hit buffs) - Accuracy * Defense
= Accuracy * Base to Hit + Accuracy * To Hit buffs - Accuracy * Defense
You can see that it clearly does. Which is dumb.
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I disagree, I think it's quite good. Remember, the NPCs use the same attack mechanics that we do. If acc did not multiply defense the way it does, you'd need different amounts of defense to cap against enemies of different rank or level, or with abnormally accurate powers, like Malta Gunslingers. Arguably, if the game had been built from the ground up without a single relatively-easily-obtainable defense softcap, we might have avoided certain problems, but within the way it works now, it makes fine sense.|
Originally Posted by gameboy1234
You can see that it clearly does. Which is dumb.
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Originally Posted by gameboy1234
I see what you are saying, but this is not quite accurate. Several powers have a To-Hit bonus. If a buff "helps you hit," then it likely does have a ToHit bonus. Leadership: Tactics and a Fortunata's Mind Link both grant a bonus to ToHit.
I think what you mean was than when you slot a power, the enhancements grant accuracy rather than ToHit. |
Incidentally, a power's final accuracy is AccMods = the power's inherent Accuracy × (1.0 + the power's Accuracy Enhancements + all global Set Accuracy bonuses)
Presumably, the few powers that grant accuracy buffs are added in those parentheses as well. So Fulmens' example should have had a total acc of 1.05*(1+.4+.28) = 1.764, but a total tohit of 39%, for a final hit chance of 68.80%.
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
Not sure how it got this far without this link showing up
Edit: Derp, second reply is sooo far back for my memory apparently
It lives! (Although in this case it works well, try to refrain from necroposting in 2 year old threads in future.)
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Well..... the problem with that is that it suggests accuracy affects a single power while to hit affects all of them. In fact, you can have global accuracy (as well as global to hit).
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Originally Posted by Super Firebug
Would an acceptable overview be: Accuracy enhancements make the weapon more accurate, and ToHit buffs make you a better marksman?
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To be fair, rum supplies do have a noteworthy impact on your accuracy.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I see maths.
I suspect it's time to run and hide in a bunker before the math-nuke from Arcanaville hits, which takes into account quantum variations in keyboards, string theory, string cheese, the heat death of the universe, age, specific variations of the color yellow, and how much rum is left. |
I am curious I was reveiwing my Power Attributes for my scrapper and I realized that I had +27 Accuracy and +0 To Hit. I thought to myself whats the difference? I read the very limited 'pop-up' description and it was of no help.
Can anyone out there explain the difference and/or point me in the direction of where I can find this out?
Thanks!