I17: Move "old" Positron to Ouroboros / Midnighters?
By
Autonomous Prime,
Posted on: 2010-02-23 16:24 in Suggestions and Ideas
Totally /signed.
I'd prefer the Ouroboros version over the Midnighter one, but I'd be happy with either. The chances of me actually running the old Posi TF are tiny, but I would really like the option for nostalgia's sake.
Also, a related request: I'd love for the Calvin Scott task force to be added in the same way. I never got to run it while it was live, so would like to have a look at what it was like.
Edit: island pathing comment removed after re-reading a little. 
I'm willing to bet that when you see the new Posi and it's PartII, you're going to be screaming to the Devs, "Wish the old Posi to the cornfield, now!"
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No, because that would give Heroes even MORE merits / day.
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and your point?
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
No, because that would give Heroes even MORE merits / day.
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Due the diminishing returns, a hero who spends the whole day TF'ing will earn more than the villain who spends the whole day SF'ing. No need to give the heros more
I like this idea, but on one condition: They bring back the Calvin Scott TF while they're at it.
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[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
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He doesn't have one. He sent me a nastygram PM a while back that earned himself an ignore from me, and I've come to determine from various posts on the forums that who-ever at the keyboard for that player isn't actually interested in helping the game to grow or expand. |
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
and your point?
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I'm fairly sure the player behind that avatar does not understand that Rogues should be able to do HeroSide task forces and get merits for those Task Forces in the upcoming Going Rogue expansion. I'm also not sure the player understands that my original posts is based on a subjective proposition that the developers are looking at, or wanting to, revamp more existing content in the near future. I don't have any proof that other Task Forces or strike forces are up for revamps, and at this stage, I'm not sure any of the development staff can comment on plans that may be 8 or 10 months out.
I think setting up a consistent mechanism for accessing this older in-game as new revamped content is introduced is something the developers should look at or consider, and the Positron TF would be a good place to start.
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| I like this idea, but on one condition: They bring back the Calvin Scott TF while they're at it. |
Short List of things I'd like to see added to Ouroboros Crystals:
Any TF that gets significantly revamped or removed.
The old Paragon Dance Party
The old Faultline zone
The old Rikti War zone
There doesn't need to be content (though special Flashback missions would be cool) and there could be a time limit on visiting open ended maps, but it would be cool to be able to go.
I would add outlevelled Mayhem/Safeguard missions to the list, however I have a better idea for that that I have been kicking around in my head and will post another time.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
I'd like to see some or most of this functionality added to the supergroup mission computer as well. Just to give us a reason to have it beyond "it looks cool" =D
But yeah, i've heard people -griping- about Posi being replaced. Which is weird, because i think as it stands it's horrible and needs work. "Hey, 17 defeat-alls with no coherent story, except you need to save the dam by being NOWHERE NEAR IT. Have fun!" Heck, they even had to add an EB at the end to convince you that yes, it IS the final mission. Whatever they give us will almost assuredly be better.
Anyway, best of both worlds is to make sure both versions of the TF are available =)
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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hey, wait, come back. i'm intrigued. i want to know more of what you speak. please don't leave me hanging like someone stole the last few pages of my book... | I would add outlevelled Mayhem/Safeguard missions to the list, however I have a better idea for that that I have been kicking around in my head and will post another time. |
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I'm sure if they could have put the finale near the dam, they would have. However remember that it was a 10-15 TF and back then the dam was at the back end of a 20+ old school hazard zone.
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
I'd like to see some or most of this functionality added to the supergroup mission computer as well. Just to give us a reason to have it beyond "it looks cool" =D
But yeah, i've heard people -griping- about Posi being replaced. Which is weird, because i think as it stands it's horrible and needs work. "Hey, 17 defeat-alls with no coherent story, except you need to save the dam by being NOWHERE NEAR IT. Have fun!" Heck, they even had to add an EB at the end to convince you that yes, it IS the final mission. Whatever they give us will almost assuredly be better. Anyway, best of both worlds is to make sure both versions of the TF are available =) |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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God, the last thing we'd want in this game is more content. Shocking!|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
No, because that would give Heroes even MORE merits / day.
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Seriously, all the other posts in this thread are right on the money--this and some other long-lost stuff is ready-made to be added to Ouroboros.
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So link the TF timers.|
Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
Due the diminishing returns, a hero who spends the whole day TF'ing will earn more than the villain who spends the whole day SF'ing. No need to give the heros more
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Problem solved! Do either Posi TF and the other one gets diminished, too.
-Rachel-
The Positron that gives the old version of this Task Force should not only have his helmet on his head, but he should also lack the glowing blue details, like how the character looked at the release of the game.
Formerly known as Stormy_D
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I'm gonna take issue with that part, J_S, for a few reasons.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
I'm fairly sure the player behind that avatar does not understand that Rogues should be able to do HeroSide task forces and get merits for those Task Forces in the upcoming Going Rogue expansion.
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To make sure I don't ramble on (like usual) I'll list them;
1) GR is paid for and, thus, optional content. Making it 'fair' based around something not everyone will have is not right.
2) Not everyone will want to go Rogue with their Villains. I know a number of mine who won't be, for concept reasons.
3) Why not give Villains *more* Taskforces? Apart from a few horribly un-needed hunts in, say, the Renault SF, SFs are generally a lot less 'broken' then the TFs are. Maybe with a few that aren't tied to Arachnos.
Just my observations. Im all up for old history and missions being put in Ouro or Midnighters, though.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Nice alternative! But I'm against adding Calvin Scott, as an aside, unless they add another SF.
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
So link the TF timers.
Problem solved! Do either Posi TF and the other one gets diminished, too. -Rachel- |
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If you check out the Hero-con podcasts (I think it was "Wouldn't It Be Great If") one of the devs mentioned they had figured out how to put Calvin Scott's TF back into the game.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
I meant to mention Calvin Scott since it was in the global channel discussion that spawned the original post. The closest I got though was Mr. Miller's rumination on bringing back retired task forces. I believe Mr. Miller mentioned Calvin Scott by name, although converting the Cathedral of Pain Trial to an Ouroboros TF tends to come up a slight bit more often on these forums.
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I feel like Zoë when I say, I don't disagree on any particular point... Although I disagree with the implication of the points. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
I'm gonna take issue with that part, J_S, for a few reasons.
To make sure I don't ramble on (like usual) I'll list them; 1) GR is paid for and, thus, optional content. Making it 'fair' based around something not everyone will have is not right. 2) Not everyone will want to go Rogue with their Villains. I know a number of mine who won't be, for concept reasons. 3) Why not give Villains *more* Taskforces? Apart from a few horribly un-needed hunts in, say, the Renault SF, SFs are generally a lot less 'broken' then the TFs are. Maybe with a few that aren't tied to Arachnos. Just my observations. Im all up for old history and missions being put in Ouro or Midnighters, though. |
First, I'm not against giving Villains more Strike Forces. I've even gone through the trouble of creating the framework for a low level Villain SF.
Second, the way the developers have phrased how changing sides will work, those who purchase Going Rogue and become Vigilante or Rogue will be able to participate in all of the content each City offers. On the surface, this means a Rogue will be able to run all of the task forces, and a Vigilante will be able to run all of the Strike Forces.
Third: the developers were also pretty clear that there would be rewards for those who didn't blur the line or change sides. We don't know what mechanism(s) the devs are implementing to make it worthwhile for a Villain to stay a Villain, and for Heroes to stay Heroes. I'm not entirely convinced that existing content fits into the developers reward plan. It might be that STF and LRSF are limited to those that are pure Villain or pure Hero.
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| 1) GR is paid for and, thus, optional content. Making it 'fair' based around something not everyone will have is not right. |
Either way, we need to have more information about what exactly is in Going Rogue before anybody starts blowing on the that's not fair horn about how to handle pre-existing content.
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In order to be able to choose to go Rogue or Vigilante a player must purchase the Going Rogue Expansion. |
Originally Posted by je_saist
I am saying that if what the Developers is said at face value, those who choose to go Rogue should be able to run the Hero TF's for merits, and those who go Vigilante will be able to run the Villain SF's for merits
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Currently Heroes can produce more merits than Villains in a similar time frame.
The Posi TF is part of that, having both available will further increase the imbalance, and pointing at Going Rogue and saying that it solves the problem isn't accurate because people will ahve to pay additional money to even have that option.
Honestly I'm not against the idea,but I think the merit imbalance should be addressed before something like this gets implemented.
This would be exquisite for when I'm in the mood for something terrible.
Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.
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This. I never got to do the Calvin Scott TF. I came in just right before the GDN and ED.
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Originally Posted by StormSurvivor
Totally /signed.
Also, a related request: I'd love for the Calvin Scott task force to be added in the same way. I never got to run it while it was live, so would like to have a look at what it was like. Edit: island pathing comment removed after re-reading a little. |
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I love to be able to see the old maps like faultline and paragon dance party via O, and same with Posi TF.|
Originally Posted by Dr_Illuminatis
This. I never got to do the Calvin Scott TF. I came in just right before the GDN and ED.
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I wouldnt like to see the mayhems/safeguards added though, as they reward leveling up the 'standard' way over fast farming, and afaik about the only things you do miss out on.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
While I am looking forward to the revamped Positron Task Force, I'd like to suggest that the old Task Force be kept around. Presuming the Positron Task Force revamp is an indication of future content, we can probably also expect updated storylines from Synapse, Sister Psyche, Citadel, Manticore, and Numina. I know Mr. Miller has discussed bringing back "retired" task forces through Ouroboros before... so here's my suggestion:
In Ouroboros there are 7 floating islands around the main ship of Mender Silos. Place a Ouroboros Acolyte on each Island who grants the start of each existing Freedom Phalanx Task Force. Access to the Islands for non-fliers / jumpers could be granted by placing "ouro portals" or "wisp portals" on the ship's rear running board. (the running board behind the entry point to Ouroboros Zone.
One of the advantages... or disadvantages... to placing the "old" Task Forces into Ouroboros is that hero side players couldn't access the Task Forces until they were 25. This might not be such a big deal for the "old" Positron and Synapse Task Forces, but those wanting to run an old school Sis Psyche might be a bit put off. Using Ouroboros to host the Task Forces also poses a problem for Villain Side presuming that Cap SF and Silver Mantis are ever revamped and moved to Legacy Status.
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Ergo: Secondary Solution: the Midnighter Club option. Officially, the Midnighter Club only has an Ouro Crystal that links their club to Cimerora. However, this is a supergroup that is interested in the History of the world, and if anybody outside of Ouroboros was able to detect and tell players about the RetCons... it'd be the Midnight Club.
So, the proposal here is to add a new room to the Midnighter's club... say... a door here where the lights indicate one:
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In this new room is a new Ouro Crystal obtained by the Midnighters, and various objects along the room. The design of the room is decidedly more high tech than the rest of the Midnighters club, with various electronic devices scattered among stone tables, and a SuperGroup computer in an alcove.
Next to each object is a Midnighter. For the most part, each Midnighter tells the player about events Before the RetCon. As a lesson in the past, the Midnighters will permit the player to live through the events with their own eyes.
For Positron Task Force: A Midnighter is examining what could be a replica of Positron's helmet, and various bits of clockwork gears. An explosive pack from an Vhaz Embalmed Abomination hangs on the wall.
For Synapses Task Force: A Midnighter is checking out bits of clockwork as well. A Rebuilt Clockwork Prince is attached to the wall.
For Sister Psyche Task Force: A Midnighter stands guard over a sonic device as a technican in a white lab coat holds a scanner over it. Against the wall are 3 of the bombs.
For Citadel Task Force: A midnighter stands in front of a table upon which a collection of pistols and rifles is laid out. Behind the table a deactivated Mech Man stands by.
For Manticore Task Force: The helmet of a Paragon Protector, the helmet of a Crey Tank, and a few of the Crey Cryo Pistols are set about in shelfs. Upon the wall is a suspiciously large sized suit. Clicking on the suit grants the player with a text pop-up saying it's a "replica?" of the suit that was taken from Hopkins upon arrest.
For Numina Task Force: A midnighter stands in front of a case in which non-targetable Swarms hover. Upon the wall are pair of Axe's are crossed.
For Cap Strike Force: A midnighter stands guard upon a tome of ancient inscription. The midnighter isn't the contact. The tome is. The tome gives the villains; as well as those that blur the line; the knowledge to go back in time before the RetCon and see Virgil Tarikoss.
For Silver Mantis: A Midnighter stands before a supergroup computer. Once again, the object is the contact, not the midnighters. Villains and those who blur the line will find that the Midnighter is examining a copy of a computer transmission from Silver Mantis. You decide to go back in time with the Crystal and find out what this transmission is about.
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While the Midnighter Club is an elegant solution the level access problem presented by Ourobous for the Heroes of the game, it's not exactly an elegant solution for Villains. Ashley McKnight only sends Villains into the Club at level 30... so there would need to be some kind of background revamp to allow Villains entry at level 15.