Thoughts on Level 50-60 Content. . .
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2010-02-20 18:12 in Suggestions and Ideas
/nein, /no, /nunca, /nyet.
If I knew any other languages offhand, I'd use those.
Post-50 content is a good idea. Invalidating the IO investments of purples and other expensive sets is stupid.
Further, a larger level range only spreads out the market IO's by increasing leveling-time, and distancing the range from start to finish.
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I have no idea when you did your trial, but based on my experience, I really have no idea what you were doing with your time. I hit the level 20 cap in about 5 hours. No tricks, no add-ons, no help, just quests.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
i 4th the BS call now that sol beat me to thirding it. i tried WoW and found that after the 10 day trial i still had not hit the level cap for trials. adn i was on vacation the whole time and played up to 6 hrs a day. now , i know i didn't have access to all the neat little tricks and stuff, but it takes less time to reach 50 in CoX then it does in WoW. and that is with no exploits at all. and no power leveling.
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Stuff your blanket statement or your original post doesn't cover:|
Originally Posted by Remaugen
But then going to level 60 will take me much longer to get there!
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What are players DOING in this much longer stretch of time? What sorts of missions are going to be interesting?
How do you counter the main reason we've been given that 50+ won't happen- that not everyone has a 50, and in order to make 10 extra levels ESPECIALLY levels that take longer, they'd essentially be making content they knew not everyone would see.
How can that be justified when they've told us that instead they're focusing on content and systems that work for characters of almost all levels, and thus are fun and interesting for all players?
You have given no compelling reason that they should make things that de facto exclude a large segment of the players, and how that would actually attract people.
We've been told we're getting things that will make characters of all levels more fun to play. Why don't you think that's enough?
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Virtue, Moon Guard. It's the same place, right? >_> Feels like it sometimes...! (*has been on Virtue since headstart, and likes it!*)| Hey, Virtue people rock! *looks at signature* 6 months real time 1 to 70 sounds about right--it took my Warrior roughly that long. And I almost never teamed until I discovered (I had to be told) autoteaming. |
When I refer to the Dungeon Finder, I'm referring to the cross-server/battlegroup dungeon team creator, for the record. That really amped up the availability of people for low-level dungeons. However, my connections allowed me to get into enough groups without the old (single-server) LFT tool that I was, by the time I hit Outland, cursing the existence of Sunken Temple and BRD.
(I still curse them, but that's because BRD is the only thing between 53 and 58, it feels like..!)Quote:
| Small subset or not, the forumgoers are often among the most savy and articulate players in the game. But, you don't have to accept that. God knows Statesman never did. |
Dawncaller - The Circle of Dawn
Too many blasted alts to list, but all on Virtue.
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There is a certain amount of truth in that. When it comes to advice on in game questions the forums are the best place to go but it is easy to forget that forum-goers are not a representative sampling of the total playerbase on all topics.
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Originally Posted by Dalantia
Hee hee. I'd advocate less "Ignore", and more "take with a few grains of salt", if that makes sense? I'm not saying they have nothing useful to say, it's just that in my experience, a forumgoer is more likely to know all the tricks and expect that knowledge as a minimum from all the players in the game when he takes any kind of perspective in an argument, or be wanting to vent his spleen about something.
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I liked the stories in WoW. Although I ran into a weird one where expansions seemed to make the story a bit muddled (something about a dragon lady and some parts of the story saying people know what/who she was and others saying they had no idea). It's not a bad game by most measures but it is a very different game.
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City of Warcraft, 1 Hero's Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Statesman. Nah I'm good with 50 being the max level. I enjoy my toon's so much that I keep on playing them even when they have hit 50 |
Originally Posted by Remaugen
For many players, getting to 50 means retiring the toon, it would be nice to give 50 level characters something to work for, I would like to see level 50-60 content added for that reason.
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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
my character development doesn't stop at 50. It's actually the point where it just begins. I think many (using your definition of "many") people would share this point of view as well.
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At one time I thought OOOOH raising level cap WOO HOO!!! Not anymore I have over 10 level 50s. My 1st 50 I do not play. Since then I have made some pretty cool toons most of which I have put alot of Infamy into slotting them out. So when I hear level cap I thing GREAT.... I am gonna have to get more levels, and believe me I am not gonna go get new contacts and see the new story lines I am gonna PL my toons to 60 and then check out the new SFs, but then I am gonna have to get new builds for all of my Toons... Does that sound like fun NO WAY!!! LOL I think it would be awesome if we could get some new Strike Forces before they raise cap. For me this game is all about the people. I tried STO and one thing I hated was the auto teams I like this you can find you friend say hey wanna team? You are not just thrown together probly with a team that will not finish a mission that has a tough AV. LOL So the thought of Auto teams YUCK... I like nothing more than comming into this game jumping in coalition chat and doing SFs with my SG mates. That is what this game is all about for me Friends and fun. Some people enjoy PVP some enjoy Missions. I personally could spend an entire day on my 50s that I have played OVER AND OVER Doing SFs. I can't wait for going rogue.... I have no 50 Heros and it would be fun to try out some of the Hero SFs. We need more content not more levels.
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Fixt for the WALL OF TEXT... it hurts the eyes.
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
At one time I thought OOOOH raising level cap WOO HOO!!! Not anymore I have over 10 level 50s. My 1st 50 I do not play. Since then I have made some pretty cool toons most of which I have put alot of Infamy into slotting them out. So when I hear level cap I thing GREAT.... I am gonna have to get more levels, and believe me I am not gonna go get new contacts and see the new story lines I am gonna PL my toons to 60 and then check out the new SFs, but then I am gonna have to get new builds for all of my Toons... Does that sound like fun NO WAY!!! LOL I think it would be awesome if we could get some new Strike Forces before they raise cap.
For me this game is all about the people. I tried STO and one thing I hated was the auto teams I like this you can find you friend say hey wanna team? You are not just thrown together probly with a team that will not finish a mission that has a tough AV. LOL So the thought of Auto teams YUCK... I like nothing more than comming into this game jumping in coalition chat and doing SFs with my SG mates. That is what this game is all about for me Friends and fun. Some people enjoy PVP some enjoy Missions. I personally could spend an entire day on my 50s that I have played OVER AND OVER Doing SFs. I can't wait for going rogue.... I have no 50 Heros and it would be fun to try out some of the Hero SFs. We need more content not more levels. |
All of these level cap raise threads suffer from the same fatal flaw - they aim to increase play time and play time only while never really giving any thought to WHAT that play time should be filled with, or indeed if a longer playtime is strictly necessary. First of all, making "a second game" to fill in the next ten levels that would take even longer goes beyond a new expansion and into the territory of... Well, a whole second game. One for both sides.
Secondly, I cannot and will not agree with the notion that the game should never, ever end in the amount of time a sane player could be willing to put into it. "Ever Quest" this game is not. I enjoy games which end and must be started over for the same reason I enjoy series that end, as opposed to going the route of the Bold and the Beautiful and running until the people responsible for making them die of natural causes. Or the world ends. I enjoy stories that have a beginning, a middle and, most importantly, an END. Any game which lacks an end, or has one so absurdly staggered that I'm never ever going to see it in a million years is a game I'm not even going to BEGIN. Never start what you don't intend to finish, as it were.
Basically, I feel that the need to increase the level cap of the game is missing the entire point of the whole design. Diversity of visuals, of technicalities and of experiences is what this game is really all about, and despite it actually getting repetitive in terms of instances, the scope of stories and concepts it lets us dive into is incalculable. I don't agree that turning the game into a grindfest is a good way to build on this.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
At one time I thought OOOOH raising level cap WOO HOO!!! Not anymore I have over 10 level 50s. My 1st 50 I do not play. Since then I have made some pretty cool toons most of which I have put alot of Infamy into slotting them out. So when I hear level cap I thing GREAT.... I am gonna have to get more levels, and believe me I am not gonna go get new contacts and see the new story lines I am gonna PL my toons to 60 and then check out the new SFs, but then I am gonna have to get new builds for all of my Toons... Does that sound like fun NO WAY!!! LOL I think it would be awesome if we could get some new Strike Forces before they raise cap.
For me this game is all about the people. I tried STO and one thing I hated was the auto teams I like this you can find you friend say hey wanna team? You are not just thrown together probly with a team that will not finish a mission that has a tough AV. LOL So the thought of Auto teams YUCK... I like nothing more than comming into this game jumping in coalition chat and doing SFs with my SG mates.
That is what this game is all about for me Friends and fun. Some people enjoy PVP some enjoy Missions. I personally could spend an entire day on my 50s that I have played OVER AND OVER Doing SFs. I can't wait for going rogue.... I have no 50 Heros and it would be fun to try out some of the Hero SFs. We need more content not more levels.
Fixt for the WALL OF TEXT... it hurts the eyes.
Sharker, OMG You need to get a life. You have nothing better to do then come in and set my post to paragraphs? Are we on a message board just writing a reply message or is this a class and that was a paper due on my thoughts on level cap? I think not. People like you who want to do lame crap like this is what keeps even some of the best players from posting. I come in here make legit comments and you come in and have to be all high and mighty and attacking simple things like letter form and spelling. Not that you said anything about my spelling, but if you are willing to do this then I am sure you are one of those people who come in and say OMG You spelled this wrong and I didn't like the way you worded that. Obviously your account is up to date otherwise you would not be able to post in the forum. Shouldn't you be leveling a toon, or slotting it? I mean who named you the City of Forums paragraph fixer? If you have something to say that contributes to the conversation post it, but if your only poing is to be LIKE OMG She didn't use paragraph form. Then take the time you took to fix my post to look for a post where you can contribute some good advice to. I refuse to try to reply to posts as if I am writing a paper. I write enough papers in my college classes I am not gonna focus my time on prefecting my COX Forum replys they are not papers just comments. If it hurts your eyes then you don't have to read it.
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OMG! That's such a silly thing to be upset over. He fixed your Wall of Text so other people would BOTHER reading it.|
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
Sharker, OMG You need to get a life. You have nothing better to do then come in and set my post to paragraphs? Are we on a message board just writing a reply message or is this a class and that was a paper due on my thoughts on level cap? I think not.
People like you who want to do lame crap like this is what keeps even some of the best players from posting. I come in here make legit comments and you come in and have to be all high and mighty and attacking simple things like letter form and spelling. Not that you said anything about my spelling, but if you are willing to do this then I am sure you are one of those people who come in and say OMG You spelled this wrong and I didn't like the way you worded that. Obviously your account is up to date otherwise you would not be able to post in the forum. Shouldn't you be leveling a toon, or slotting it? I mean who named you the City of Forums paragraph fixer? If you have something to say that contributes to the conversation post it, but if your only poing is to be LIKE OMG She didn't use paragraph form. Then take the time you took to fix my post to look for a post where you can contribute some good advice to. I refuse to try to reply to posts as if I am writing a paper. I write enough papers in my college classes I am not gonna focus my time on prefecting my COX Forum replys they are not papers just comments. If it hurts your eyes then you don't have to read it. |
You see, the wall of text hurting people's eyes makes then not want to continue hurting their eyes. It's that simple. He did you a favor to ensure that other people would read your points. Perhaps because he -agreed- with what you were typing.
-Rachel-
thank you rachel. and yes bambi, i do agree with you that a level cap raise is NOT what we want. and if you had bothered reading the whole thread you would have seen that i did quite a few posts about how raising the level cap is wrong in all ways.
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I am sorry. I know you meant to help. I have had problems comming on this site and having people ignore my point and give me a difficult time about you did a typo on this word, and pointing out everything but the point to my thread so if I was sensetive about your fixing my layout. I am sorry. That is why I am defensive. I read most of the stuff that was said and I know you agree with me, but I wanted to come in and check to see if anyone replied to me and I all I saw was my reply being fixed. I try to post good things and get annoyed when it all turns into an english class. LOL
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
thank you rachel. and yes bambi, i do agree with you that a level cap raise is NOT what we want. and if you had bothered reading the whole thread you would have seen that i did quite a few posts about how raising the level cap is wrong in all ways.
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I'm someone who retires their toons at 50 - if they get that far - and while I don't seek to raise the cap I do see the typical forum argument against raising the cap as a fallacy.
The argument usually goes "But if we raise the cap to 60 because people complained about the cap being at 50, then what's to stop people from complaining about having the cap at 60?"
Well, it's all about play time and proportions. According to the argument above, there should be no reason to not have the level cap at 10. I mean, why raise the cap to 20, 30, 40, or 50, when people will just complain about it. So why not leave the cap at 10?
The point of raising the cap is that you can enjoy playing your toon longer. That argument is valid for toons capped at level 10, 50, and 60 - provided there is new content to explore up to the cap.
I think the actual argument coming from Paragon Studios has been more along the lines of "We don't want to do more content. We'll give you more systems to play with, but not more content."
In that sense, the devs extended the end game for many players by creating the IO system, with the ability to grind for a long, long time to get special sets, purples, PvP IOs, etc.
Expect the "end game" from Posi to be something more along these lines than anything involving more levels and/or a ton of new content.
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No, the argument usually goes "But what do you actually DO in that full other game's length?" as creating enough content to fill that new band simply doesn't exist. This leads to Ikea content that's typically REALLY slow, REALLY repetitive or STUPID hard, and usually some combination of all of the above, which just is not good.|
Originally Posted by konshu
The argument usually goes "But if we raise the cap to 60 because people complained about the cap being at 50, then what's to stop people from complaining about having the cap at 60?"
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| The point of raising the cap is that you can enjoy playing your toon longer. That argument is valid for toons capped at level 10, 50, and 60 - provided there is new content to explore up to the cap. |
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| I think the actual argument coming from Paragon Studios has been more along the lines of "We don't want to do more content. We'll give you more systems to play with, but not more content." |
We'll get more things to do. We might even get more ways to improve. What we WILL NOT get is more levels.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This may just be a message board and not an English Class, but that doesn't change the fact that following the rules of english and formatting helps people understand what you're trying to say. It shows you're putting thought into what you're trying to say, instead of just typing a bunch of stuff randomly.
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Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
I am sorry. I know you meant to help. I have had problems comming on this site and having people ignore my point and give me a difficult time about you did a typo on this word, and pointing out everything but the point to my thread so if I was sensetive about your fixing my layout. I am sorry. That is why I am defensive. I read most of the stuff that was said and I know you agree with me, but I wanted to come in and check to see if anyone replied to me and I all I saw was my reply being fixed. I try to post good things and get annoyed when it all turns into an english class. LOL
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Sam, you may have felt you argued against what I was saying succesfully, but all I saw was you taking a very roundabout way of agreeing.
The devs aren't going to add another 10 levels of content. They decided this before CoV came out, as I recall, and said something to the effect that they only added Grandville so CoV would match CoH.
They will add systems, like another power enhancement scheme, but they're not adding content.
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I think you may have different definitions of the word "content". I'm pretty sure Sam is using it as "more stories, more TF/SFs, possibly new zones" - which is how I'm defining content. And that content need not be written so that you have to be level 50+ to do it. Hopefully it will be spread out throughout the existing levels of the game.|
Originally Posted by konshu
Sam, you may have felt you argued against what I was saying succesfully, but all I saw was you taking a very roundabout way of agreeing.
The devs aren't going to add another 10 levels of content. They decided this before CoV came out, as I recall, and said something to the effect that they only added Grandville so CoV would match CoH. They will add systems, like another power enhancement scheme, but they're not adding content. |
That doesn't seem to be your definition of content, Konshu, so I'm wondering where you see the difference?
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
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Actually, mine was a disagreement of semantics. You say they won't add "content," but the usual connotation of content is missions, story arcs, Task Forces and other things in that vein. You say they will add new "systems," but the connotation that is basically more complicated options for builds and powers. For one, this doesn't add more to DO in the game, it just gives you more varied rewards for doing the OLD content. For another, the developers have not, to the best of my knowledge, said that they will not add more content as I understand it.|
Originally Posted by konshu
Sam, you may have felt you argued against what I was saying succesfully, but all I saw was you taking a very roundabout way of agreeing.
The devs aren't going to add another 10 levels of content. They decided this before CoV came out, as I recall, and said something to the effect that they only added Grandville so CoV would match CoH. They will add systems, like another power enhancement scheme, but they're not adding content. |
I REALLY doubt that they will only add in more systems with people constantly complaining they've run out of missions to do and requesting new Task Forces to play through. Specifically, they've promised us "end game content" in those exact words, which to me assumes more missions and story arcs to do at the end of the game. This doesn't require more levels, as they can just be dumped in the last level range, or in the 40-50 game, which most people call "the end game" anyway.
Basically, no level cap increase does not preclude new missions and arcs for our existing level 50s to do.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This is probably one of the oldest arguments on forums. Yes, perfect English is not required and in general people will overlook occasional mistakes. However writing in bad English is the equivalent of talking with a rustic accent in real life; people give your words less weight than they should because the presentation is poor. If people have to spend a lot of time interpreting your words then that is time they aren't spending considering them. It also makes them more likely to decide that your words are not worth considering.|
Originally Posted by Pimpstress_Bambi
I am sorry. I know you meant to help. I have had problems comming on this site and having people ignore my point and give me a difficult time about you did a typo on this word, and pointing out everything but the point to my thread so if I was sensetive about your fixing my layout. I am sorry. That is why I am defensive. I read most of the stuff that was said and I know you agree with me, but I wanted to come in and check to see if anyone replied to me and I all I saw was my reply being fixed. I try to post good things and get annoyed when it all turns into an english class. LOL
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The "wall of text" phenomenon is a similar issue. In general it is harder to read words on a computer screen than it is on a printed page (I'm not entirely sure why but it is). When attempting to read a large block of text (such as your original post) it is very easy for the eye to jump from one place to another making it harder to read. However the opposite is also bad. I've seen people who write putting each sentence on it's own line and I find those almost as hard to read as the wall of text. My experience is that there is a balance required in how frequently you put paragraph breaks in your most for maximum readability.
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I think I see the problem.|
Originally Posted by konshu
Sam, you may have felt you argued against what I was saying succesfully, but all I saw was you taking a very roundabout way of agreeing.
The devs aren't going to add another 10 levels of content. They decided this before CoV came out, as I recall, and said something to the effect that they only added Grandville so CoV would match CoH. They will add systems, like another power enhancement scheme, but they're not adding content. |
Raising the level cap does not equal adding content. Presumably, if they raised the level cap, they would need to add content to fill the level gap. However, they do not need to raise the level cap in order to add new content.
This game has consistently added new content even after the villains got bumped from level 40 to 50. The Menders and Ourobouros are new content. The Midnight Club and Cimerora are new content. The Rikti War Zone is new content. Revamped Faultline is new content. The Khan and Reichsman Task Forces are new content.
The Dark Mirror villain group and the four new story arcs introducing and exploring them will be new content in Issue 17. Going Rogue will introduce at least two completely new leveling paths from 1-20, in addition to the promised level 50 end game content and the side switching content.
New content is coming. We don't need to be able to go up beyond level 50 in order to gat new content.
New story arcs coming soon (ARC IDs will be aded when I finish the arc):
So, you want to join the Hellions? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Sparks & Steel (level 5-20 Heroic arc)
and
So you want to join the Skulls? (level 1-14 Villainous arc)
Just thought I'd pop in without reading everything to add my own "Hell no." into the mix.
I don't want my characters' carefully-planned builds to be invalidated just so you can spend an extra three days playing your character before asking for another level cap increase to seventy.
No thanks.
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In a way, yes, I want my characters to continue growing. When you got every thing slotted the way you want it, from my point of view, there is nothing left, no growth, nothing earned. Yeah, they are supposed to be heroes, not mercenaries who have to profit from everything, but this player behind that character wants some reward, something to work towards with anticipation of more to come. The "Grind" as you call it doesn't bother me as long as it is fairly fresh and continues producing rewards.
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Originally Posted by Solicio
LOL
I know you probably didn't mean for that to be funny, but it really is. You're literally advocating to add grind just for the sake of grind at this point. |
I know you probably didn't mean for that to be funny, but it really is. You're literally advocating to add grind just for the sake of grind at this point.
Feel free to try out my AE mission arc, # 473452: Praetorian Redemption
@Valerika