Pour the coals on your best features

Man, don't you remember the incessant whining from blueside only players when i7 first came out? They were making it sound like issue seven had nothing for them, while villains were getting everything. In fact, I do remember several "you're kidding, right??" kind of replies to that, but they were kind of drowned out by all that complaining.

I wish the boards had posts from that far back so I could point to them!

We're not talking about parity generation at all. You specifically said

The only content (i.e. mishes) that were added were exclusively redside. That's an entire issue in which all of the content was for villains. It doesn't matter if it was done for whatever reason. It still stands as a villain only content issue.

Except that it was done as such because heroes (which formed and still form a substantially larger portion of the population) complained about villains getting absolutely everything that issue. Heroes got all of the similar functions because villains got all of it the previous issue.

Except that we're not comparing content that came out before CoV did. Issue 3 was released when all development effort was being directed towards CoH. Comparing issues after the release of CoV to those before is simply putting up a smokescreen to the fact that, yes, there was, in fact, a development disparity that favored villains.

So now you're complaining about the fact that vills got much more complex and developer intensive content as opposed to the rather simple tank-and-spank that heroes got? So the devs favor heroes because they give us simple stuff that only requires math in order to find balance for as opposed to one that requires a decent amount of coding and substantially more internal testing? As to the times, aren't villains always complaining about having SFs that are too short? Are you even listening to yourself?

Except that, in order to "catch up" to the 5 issue lead that heroes have over villains using your 3/1 development effort split, the next year would have to be heavily villain preferential. Considering that a majority of the players of the game are blueside, you're going to be spending more money on fewer people because one of the two games has been out longer. Rather than spending effort equally, which still ends up meaning that, on a per player basis, villains are getting more spend on them, you want to overturn that completely and risk losing blueside players that are pissed off that the developers aren't paying attention to them?

Please, stop the whole "I'm a villain, the devs hate us, we're the victims" bull-**** and realize that just because your game came much later doesn't mean that the devs have to play catch up to make sure that everything is equivalent. CoV and CoH are the same game mechanically. From a content standpoint, they're completely separate: CoH is a game that's been out for the last 5 years, CoV is a game that's been out for 3 and a half. The devs don't need to prefer villains just because heroes were lucky enough to be the first game generated.

I thought that was kinda the long-term Villain goal?

TLDR version - I can't hear or understand you from my high horse... nyah nyah nyah!!! Did I read that correctly, Umbral? (and argument tip... quote my own words at me, not someone else's... Tiny Bolt != Errant. It'll make your argument seem a little stronger, and it needs all the help it can get)

I was comparing Pre-CoV to current times, because when you start segregating the games as such, you have to look at the imbalances created and when they happened. But I appreciate you correcting yourself, on I7, changing it from a "villain-exclusive" to "villain-content exclusive". I'd admonish you again, that I7 made CoV even with CoH, making level caps even, introducing PPPs, and tossing in missions to allow leveling up to cap (and it placed CoV briefly ahead? with Mayhems), but much like the screaming hoards then (who I ignored/forgot about, much like a screaming 2 year-old throwing a tantrum), you can't seem to grasp that CoV was released as INCOMPLETE, compared to where CoH was.

Ah well.

And I ain't a CoV player (just counted 18 Villains - 4 50 - vice 21 Heroes - 8 50.), hell, CoV has an AT I cannae even stand to team with, let alone play. I play City, both red and blue, and would just appreciate parity between the two. I want CoV harder and newer mobs to come blue-side, while red-side gets SFs for 10-15, 23-28, 25-30, 30-34, and 30-35 ranges. I want the more streamlined mission structure, quicker contact cell access, and lack of non-story fluff missions that CoV has brought over to CoH. I want a common market - there's no coherent reason to keeping them seperate, it's all blind bids anyhow... you CAN'T know, without excessive planning, where your purchases came from.

We'll see if I get any of that... The game is still fun, just it has the potential to be moreso.

And sorry about arguing on the internet with ya, I forgot what happens when ya do that. Have fun!

Shh... can't let them know!

If you're going to get nitpicky about the issue, at least get who you're responding to right. That was me, not Errant. There are actually more people than just me pointing out that villainside needs more content.

Thanks for remembering me though, I guess?

No, you must have read some other post by someone else. I'm not on a high horse. I'm simply saying that the games have gotten equivalent development time since they have both been released and, if there is a disparity, it's towards villains. I wouldn't be saying "nyahnyahnyah" if I were actually refuting your claims with actual evidence rather than simply restating common complaints by players that act as if both games have been around the same amount of time.

Yeah, that was my bad. Nerdrage blindness. I will, however, state that you were quoting me and attempting to point out incorrectness when the specific context of everything that I said was since CoV was released, rather than assuming equal lifespans for both.

Actually, CoH was released "incomplete". The level cap was originally 40, there wasn't a search function for team, and there were no APPs or EATs. Hell, there weren't even inherent powers until a good deal after the game was released. Try looking at all of the features that players use now without even noticing and then check out the first few issue releases. You'll be amazed at how many of them didn't even exist until the game had already been played for several months to a year.

I still stand by my statement that you can't compare the development that each game has gotten since each of their releases on a side-by-side basis. Because CoH has been out for so much longer, it's a foregone conclusion that CoH will have substantially more. Attempting to "equalize it" isn't going to be good for the game at all because all it will do is ostracize a majority of the player base. If you actually look at development effort that has been expended since CoV's release, however, you're actually going to get a much more fair minded (though still villain prejudiced) view of how development effort has been expended.

From a content standpoint, they're not, nor will they ever be, the same game. CoH had more than 2 years of headstart on content that is never going to be made up by CoV unless the devs suddenly decide that it would good for them to give less to the game that gives them more money.

Their current method is working perfectly fine because it's giving each side a bit more every issue. Sure, villains will complain because they don't have as much as heroes but that's not something that the devs can efficiently address while still developing for both games. The best you can hope for is for the current trend (a roughly 55/45 vills/hero split) to continue.

But arguing with people you've never seen and likely never will is what the internet is for!

You mean the copy/paste of Peregrine's "Monster Island"? A zone with about as much 'content' as Boomtown?

That's not my intent at all. My intent is to point out that villains haven't had it nearly as bad as people make it out to be. They've gotten additional content. The things that people continually point out as being blatantly unfair are Cimerora (in which there is actually a given reason why the villains are behaving as such) and RWZ (in which it fits with the genre for the villains to be helping to fight the evil invaders) while they ignore the fact that while villains have actually gotten a decent bit of unique development (VEATs).

I'm not entirely sure what you're considering the one arc and two short SFs to be. The 2 ouro SFs (Tesseract and Silos) are decidedly villainous (unless you don't think that assassinating someone and invading another city is villainous). The Barracuda SF, while not necessarily "villainous", is decidedly on the evil side of mercenary. The entirety of the VEAT arc is pretty villainous, if a bit spiteful miniony. The arc to join the Midnighter's may not be specifically evil, but it's definitely got a darker cast to it. The two Cimeroran arcs seemed rather evil to me, especially since it involves attempting to destabilize the political structure of the era for your own benefit.

Of course, you're also excluding the single biggest helping of content that anyone has gotten since CoV has been introduced: Grandville. The amount of content even in the initial release of the zone easily outstrips the 4 arcs that heroes got from the Faultline revamp, which would be the closest blueside parallel for the purposes of this discussion since CoV wasn't even in the early design stages when PI was released.

So you'd rather the UN organization that is attempting to fight off the alien invasion begin paying you or encouraging you to kick puppies and kidnap civilians? There are certain things you have to accept as sacrifices to realism. When villains aren't working in a completely lawless environment, it makes a bit of sense for the villains to get treated as such to be kept in line (which is amusing to read from the blueside standpoint as well because they talk down to you even when you're supposed to be someone that has saved the world any number of times).

That depends on what you considering "appreciable length" to be. The VEAT content is pretty long and should count for something. The Barracuda SF is reasonably decent and involved a decent bit of work. In fact, I'm pretty sure that villains have actually gotten at least one appreciably long arc, or the equivalent, every year or so. When you compare what vills have gotten to what heroes have gotten since CoV was released, vills have actually gotten a good bit.

The entire point of what I've been trying to tell people throughout this entire thread is that the "villains are always getting less than heroes" line that people are always recycling is mostly perception bias. People see CoH and they see more zones and more TFs and assume that CoH has been getting all the love. CoH and CoV have been getting a reasonably decent split that doesn't disproportionately favor either side, honestly (heroes have gotten preference from the co-op content but vills have gotten more in pure volume). I'm simply fed up with the ignorant assertion that vills have always gotten screwed and that the devs need to focus on them for a while in order to make up for it.

I've wanted this for such a long time. Our costume selection has become very elaborate but still misses out on a lot of simple, versatile pieces.

Extend this to patterns too - a lot more can be done with simple geomatric patterns, than can be cdone with Flames or Arctic themes (for example). Gloves, boots and headwear in particular miss out on a lot of geomatric patterns.

Items can be reinvigorated with new textures too - alternative (but similarly generic) texturing of popular items like Thigh High boots, or the Trenchcoat, would add a lot of options.

I want this so bad.

Ramen.

Further, there have got to be a ton of more villainous things for us to do besides pounding on each other. Let's see, I got these from the Massachussetts Master Crime List published by the Sentencing Commission:

• Armed Robbery (covered)
• Arson
• Assault
• Asault & Battery on a Corrections Officer
• Assassination
• Battery
• Bribery
• Destruction of evidence
• Distribution/sale of narcotics
• Extortion
• Illegal Disposal of Hazardous Waste
• Impersonating a Police Officer
• Improper Disposal of Human Remains
• Inciting a Riot
• Kidnapping
• Murder
• Resisting arrest
• Violation of Air Pollution Code
• Violation of Trade Secrets
• Voter Fraud
• ..and on and on and on...

Surely, villains would have much more fun subjugating the civilian populace than playing some political game with an organization that just wants to make them a pawn.