New directions for the costume creator?
By
Airborne_Ninja,
Posted on: 2010-02-01 13:53 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Personally, I'd like more colors, palettes, designs, and textures added.
I'd like them to steal the Champs Online character creator. That was a thing of beauty.
This boolean plan of your's sounds like an added server strain from having to pass along equations and such from person to person.
Personally, what I'd do is add in asymmetry and further break up things into parts to allow for more pieces to be used at once. It's already been shown that there can be enough options to have a scroll bar on the left, and I really want to be able to use horns with sunglasses.
It's also already been shown that the system can be set to recognize if something would clash and not allow you to choose an option, as with capes and trenchcoats, so just get rid of the robot arms type and add in an upper arm option so we can have a robot in a three piece suit if we want.
I suppose what hasn't been shown that I'd like would be allowing two overlaying patterns instead of just one.. or say an option to turn a pattern from regular to shiny, etc, and a self-illumination option if glowing isn't allowed.
And as for asymmetry as I mentioned earlier.. it's been shown to be allowed through the robotic arm options that the system can handle two different models for upper arms and forearms/hands.
..One of these days I should just do some mock-ups in Photoshop to help make this easier to explain.
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Eh.. clicking something on the character because you were trying to move it around was annoying, so I could do without that, and it was broken up into some odd sections with some things that didn't make sense and was at times far too complicated for it's own good, as with the multiple color options that didn't even match from piece to piece which got used for 2-color pieces, for example.|
Originally Posted by dbuter
I'd like them to steal the Champs Online character creator. That was a thing of beauty.
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It was damn nice, though, aside from the art style. So.. if you're going to rip it off.. do it right and make it work like it was meant to, I suppose. I have more faith in our devs to do that than the Cryptic ones.
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The main thing I would like is an option to add at least certain textures and colors to more of the "With Skin" patterns. I would like a way to add cheetah spots to the strapless top and the tank top, for instance. |
Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
The costume creator is, in my opinion, the crown feature of the game. It hooks and lands more players than any other aspect of the game.
In order to attempt to keep it fresh and new, the CoH devs have worked on adding new costumes and new costume parts over the five years or so. |
And make certain items appear in different places. I always use the Cimeroran pieces as effective Tops with Skin, not chest details. I want male characters to be able to have both a goatee and a Jester ruff, which should be a shoulder option as well as a face detail.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
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As it stands right now, the very least they could do that would still be a big upgrade to the costume creator would be to split things up like:|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
And make certain items appear in different places. I always use the Cimeroran pieces as effective Tops with Skin, not chest details. I want male characters to be able to have both a goatee and a Jester ruff, which should be a shoulder option as well as a face detail.
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Head:
Face
Hair/Hat (if hats really MUST be included)
Ears
Head Option (horns/wings/antennae/receivers/etc)
Eye Option
Mouth Option
Upper Body:
Chest
Chest Detail
Neck (chains/neck bolts/jester ruffles/etc)
Shoulders
Gloves
Belt
Tail
Lower Body:
Pants
Boots
Being able to do shoulders and gloves each separately would go a long way to increasing asymetrical options. I would love to see this implemented.
I seem to remember BaB''s mentioning something about a limit to the number of pieces/costumable spots a character could (was it costume points or something?). This might make some of our suggestions more difficult than they seem.
Another thing which might be cool would be the ability to shift or rotate textures applied to a costume piece. I know this might not work with everything, but where it might be possible withing breaking things, it would be cool.
Finally, the ability to have more skin color options and to have skin colors and clothing colors match perfectly would be nice.
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
I would like to see the facial options improved. I got used to being able to make exactly the human face that I wanted, instead of choosing from a bunch of options.
Capes at level 1 would be really nice (outside of the goofy mage capes that I got with Architect).
Stances would be great.
Right, Left, or Both for all limbs would also be awesome.
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Yeah, just thinking of it . . . |
Originally Posted by dbuter
Right, Left, or Both for all limbs would also be awesome.
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*Flames Dean, one sleeve rolled-up, steps out of arson side mission and dusts off his hands*
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
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If you are talking about what I think you are, as I understand it one of the limits of the system are the attachment points on the character skeleton. These attachment points let the costume part be rendered at the right distance as the body shape changes scales. The temp power jetpacks, jump packs etc get around this by just being linked to the skeleton's "center of mass", which is why they are sunk into the bodies of Huge characters and will levitate next to small, slim characters without touching. |
Originally Posted by Sermon
I seem to remember BaB''s mentioning something about a limit to the number of pieces/costumable spots a character could (was it costume points or something?). This might make some of our suggestions more difficult than they seem.
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Which is why we don't have normal backpacks yet; to make them work right, they'd need to change the skeleton which is a bigger deal than just coming up with a new cape style.
Arc #40529 : The Furies of the Earth
The only thing lacking in the creator imo is belts, scabbards, holsters. Optional asymmetrical ability obviously is the preference here, but if that's a problem, and it seems to be, then we'll take what we can get. Especially with Dual Pistols coming around soon, the lack of holsters, ANY holsters, has real poignance. Hmm, perhaps that Officer's Belt is a good start.
I'd like the ability to apply things like Reptilian and Insectoid right to the skin texture instead of being treated as a clothing item. Those are really limited in the number of clothing items you can layer on top.
Same thing for stuff like tattoos.
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Thanks, that is exactly what I was thinking of. I vaguely remembered that it related to the whole scabbard/backpack/quiver feature request. I guess I assume it doesn't have to do with costume options then (ie. whether gloves are chosen as a pair or individually).
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Originally Posted by Obscure Blade
If you are talking about what I think you are, as I understand it one of the limits of the system are the attachment points on the character skeleton. These attachment points let the costume part be rendered at the right distance as the body shape changes scales. The temp power jetpacks, jump packs etc get around this by just being linked to the skeleton's "center of mass", which is why they are sunk into the bodies of Huge characters and will levitate next to small, slim characters without touching.
Which is why we don't have normal backpacks yet; to make them work right, they'd need to change the skeleton which is a bigger deal than just coming up with a new cape style. |
Sermon
@sermon
One of Six, Cannibal 6
Hats on top of different hair.
Seriously. Especially for females, the hair with some hats is nothing short of horrible. Not to mention un-sexy.
The CC is incredible, though. And I'm faintly optimistic for GR and beyond in what we get. Maybe wrong, but hey; improvement is the only option.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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There are lots of great costume mods in this game that if they were re-textured would make a wealth of new items for the inventory. The Sinister boots, for example are great, but they only have one texture assigned to them.
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Originally Posted by AmazingMOO
It occurs however, that there are new, innovative ideas out there to enhance the costume creator without a huge amount of development time.
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Gods, yes. I'd love some decent tattoos that aren't used by everyone because there's only two tattoo options or tattoos for females besides just for forearms. Some piercings besides the pierced male nipples for leather straps'd be good, too.
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Originally Posted by Lazarus
Same thing for stuff like tattoos.
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Seconded. |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Hats on top of different hair.
Seriously. |
And hats on monstrous heads, that'd be great too.
And more ear options for them as well. I can't believe we have more ear options for human heads than monstrous heads.
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I most vehemently disagree. The Champions Online costume creator is utter garbage, a tangled mess of unintuitive sets of unrelated costumes scattered around obscure menus with STAGGERINGLY limited options do not a good costume editor make. Combine that with the fact that half the pieces themselves are garbage and you have a big problem. The only real thing it has going for it is the ability to alter left and right costume pieces (gloves, boots, eyes) separately. That's it. You can try and bring up the "fabric, leather, metal" toggle, but given that Champions costume pieces LACK TEXTURE ENTIRELY, it doesn't count. That, and having only one face is just sad, considering how little it changes with slider values.|
Originally Posted by dbuter
I'd like them to steal the Champs Online character creator. That was a thing of beauty.
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And their sliders are just a frikkin' mess. Multiple redundant sliders that count against each other and alter multiple things, aren't arranged in any logical way and don't even always work... The more MMOs I play, the more I realise just how orderly we have things here. Take face sliders, for instance - you have sliders for a bunch of things, like head size, brow position, chin size and so forth, and each slider comes in three versions - X, Y and Z direction. Champions has some that only have X, some that alter both Z and Y, some that alter one thing part-way and another thing the rest of the way and they're just spattered onto the screen like someone distributed them via salt shaker. And that one face and one face only doesn't help.
If anything, I'd look to the Aion character creator in terms of faces. It lacks face masks, goggles, horns and such, but in terms of sliders, it is VASTLY superior to that of Champions. It's actually superior to City of Heroes, too, even if the sliders are still oddly jumbled. It still gives you only one face, but you can alter that face in such a big way that, unlike Champions Online, you CAN make characters rather different. That's largely because you have much greater control of the actual face, such as controlling the curve of the bridge of the nose, just to give a random example. Where Aion fails is in terms of colour selection. You CAN pick from a continuous colour field, but you can only pick colours with Saturation under, like, 50 or so. Pretty much everything comes as a greyish washed-out version of a colour, unless it's very dark, in which case it comes off as black-ish. And they have animated hair!
Let me explain something about hair and hairstyles as seen in Aion - they aren't "flowing" in the same way Ghost Widow's hair is (which is actually a cape), as hairstyles remain static when you stand and don't appear to be some kind of complex construct. They just seem to be animated to wave when you turn around (even when you spin your character on the creation screen) and do a few simple actions when you move and jump around. Personally, that's a good way to implement it. Not all hair can "flow," but even short hair ought to at least wobble.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The only thing to take from Champions Online are asymetric details, 4 colors, additional detail slots, and selectable stances. Anything else is garbage.
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Selectable stances are cool, but as we've seen, not out of the question for City of Heroes. Additional detail slots I'll freely give you. Upper arm and upper leg details especially, though I highly suspect backpacks may be coming. Either that, or someone needs a brain replacement.|
Originally Posted by Airborne_Ninja
The only thing to take from Champions Online are asymetric details, 4 colors, additional detail slots, and selectable stances. Anything else is garbage.
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As far as four colours go, though... No, thank you. There are a mere handful of pieces that need more than two even in Champions Online, let alone in City of Heroes. I can't say I'd be opposed to it, but I hardly think it's something that's that important.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I almost wouldn't be surprised if they redid the skeletal structure of toons for GR to allow for more mounting points, depending on how much work they're putting into it.
Certain parts could benefit from three colours. Things like the samurai boots and warrior boots, amongst others, where there are three distinct parts but there are only two colours.
With the boots, for example, there is the plating, a trim, and then the foot covering itself. But theres only 2 colours, rather than the three that are needed.
Thats pretty much my one 'gripe', so far.
Oh, and an option to have NON-skinny females outside of 'armoured' tops would be nice. Or at least an option to make the arms anything other than stick thin without the legs being tree-trunks.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Everyone already knows that it's impossible to get this hair moving power thingy to work...sorry|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Some sort of moving hair would be nice too
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The costume creator is, in my opinion, the crown feature of the game. It hooks and lands more players than any other aspect of the game.
In order to attempt to keep it fresh and new, the CoH devs have worked on adding new costumes and new costume parts over the five years or so.
I *had* an idea for a renovating certain aspects of the costume creator, and was building mockups of my idea to post in the Ideas and Suggestions forums. However, the concept of creating custom boolean 'cutouts' to let characters shear away parts of their uniforms sounds great, but there are a number of things standing in the way of it. Not only do characters constantly cycle through a breathing animation that would have to be translated to any kind of boolean object created for the system. Additionally, you'd have to include an animate a great number of boolean cutaway objects -- at least one if not more for every boned section of the body. Cutting sleeves away at exactly the same level and angle you cut the bottom off a jacket doesn't look real great.
It'd probably be less work for the costume team simply to build more clothing models and textures.
It occurs however, that there are new, innovative ideas out there to enhance the costume creator without a huge amount of development time.
For example, since the devs are working on 'ultra mode' graphics anyway, transparency, specularity, and reflectivity sliders on costume pieces might be a good idea. Maybe a 'glow' slider could be added after level 30.
What ways, other than simply adding new costume pieces, would you like to see the costume creator move in?