Smarter enemies, good or bad?

So for a long time now I've thought about what I would do if I ever made my own MMORPG (fat chance!) and one thing I thought about was that if you raised difficulty for instanced missions of yours ("instanced missions" real original, I know, but City of is what inspired me on this), enemy statistics would only marginally improve, what would improve beyond that is their AI. (Though I am aware that actually adjusting AI between difficulties would be a nightmare in coding)
The ultimate hope being that you'd basically be fighting a almost a computer controlled player and ease a transition between PvE and PvP. Of course there would be some differences, but at it's heart, an AI control system would have enemies taking cover to draw you around a corner, run off and alert friends, set ambushes, and use skills based on certain situations being met. (Situation: PC takes cover behind something. Programmed reactions: 1) Use locational Area of Effect attacks. 2) Hold position until they come out from cover. 3) plant trap)
Having Played both Left 4 Dead games, I can say that NPC AI programming has some a very nice way, so it seems possible, but to make a long story short:

Is this such a good thing?
Does a smarter NPC AI take away some of the satisfaction of overcoming a foe who is only statistically superior. Would it increase frustration in players to realize they're not being overpowered but actually out smarted by binary?
And would it really be so good to ease a transition between PVP and PVE?

tl;dr Would smart MMORPG enemies be good or bad?

Just to Clarify, this is not a suggestion for this game, rather a question on the idea of smarter enemy AIs in the genre of MMRPGs period.

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

AI can use up a lot of server effort having to calculate intelligent reactions for all those units. Imagine the ITF lag if all the enemies were processing AI reactions.

Also, GW had "intelligent" AI but really it was just annoying/frustrating as hell. I think our AI is fine as it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.

Putting smarter AI into an existing game such as CoH would also be problematic. As anybody who's PvPed at all can tell you, fighting an intelligent enemy devalues certain powers a lot. What good is an Ice Patch when anybody with half a brain will stay off of it unless they're protected from knockdown? Or Darkest Night when the anchor knows to run off into the middle of nowhere to avoid inconveniencing its allies? Not all of these would have to be coded in, of course. It's just very easy to practically break existing powers by making enemies react more intelligently.

Oh, I'm not suggesting it for this game (or I would have put it into the suggestion forums) I'm merely asking in a general overview.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

Are smart NPCs in MMOs good? Yes.

Are smart NPCs in this MMO good? Probably not at this point.

I wouldn't mind seeing some new foes that have different acting AI though. C'mon, Castle... you know you wanna give some of 'em heal aggro.

Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize

I think if it would be very good but should be used in moderation. Like make it one per spawn like Sappers, limit them to specific missions SFs/TFs, or give them advantages with clear disadvantages.

Better AI would seem to me to be essential. If more "difficult" enemies just have more hit points and bigger baddaboom attacks, it's just chopping wood to take them down.

Mind you:
- smarter AI, as someone noted, take more cpu cycles.
- the AI is only as smart as the programmers. If they are not good at tactics, their creations won't be either.

I vote for smarter AI enemies.

I don't understand why anyone would prefer NPC foes that basically line themselves up to be shot down. There's absolutely no challenge in that.

I say smater AI for AV, Heroes, and certain GM (those that are supposed to have some level of intelligence). I hate it when a 8-man team circles an AV and simply pounds them down until their hit points are gone. It looks absolutely rediculous, particulary for someone like Manticore when supposedly has no powers, but can take multiple hits from a Stone Brute. Imagine if he actually dodges everyones attacks and could counter with specialized arrows? If he know enough to go after the buff/debuffers first, then taunts and holds would literally save the team. I dont think minions, LTs, or Bosses reall need a new AI since they are cannon fodder for the real masterminds of the villain/hero groups.

After playing some games like Far Cry, I can definitively just say one thing. Smarter AI is good when you want a challenge. Dumb AI is better when you just want a cathartic experience to unwind, which is largely what this game provides.

I think the devs can create smarter scenarios without coding something that will grind servers to a halt.

It always seemed incredibly ridiculous to me that all of these sinisters groups and cabals actually spend the vast majority of their time standing around in warehouses and sewers, smacking hand to fist, or striking Captain Morgan poses on crates.

What if, instead, they hiding behind piles of junk, bracing for your attack (giving them some +def and giving you some cool structures to trash)?

What if they're watching TV, giving them -percep until you attack? You could stealth by a mob if something good was on!

What if the last living minion in a mob always became a runner, and would auto-taunt the nearest mob to the last person who attacked them? Basically they're calling in their backup.

What if other villain groups could hide and ambush the way the DE do? A bunch of Hellions popping out of crates, springing their trap. Clockwork dropping down from the ceiling on your head.

Or to combine the last two, a runner could lead you into a debuff/KD AoE you can't see until you're in it.

What if mob aggro was slightly weighted based on your origin? Clockwork prefer techies, CoT go after magics, Outcast prefer to whale on the Naturals that scorned them, and maybe cut a break on a fellow mutie.

I must add to this list: NPC enemies that don't automatically know where you are!

Not that you can hit the scenery in this game... yet. You know how sometimes the hero sneaking around the warehouse will pick up a small bit of something and throw it somewhere. The foes around him would of course immediately focus their attention on where the impact sound was made. They wouldn't magically be aware of exactly where the hero was hiding!

Not unless one of the foes happened to see from where the object was thrown. Of course then, that means you have to immediately leave the spot from where you'd thrown it, and hope you don't get spotted again!

Of course by then, they're onto you. That's when they sound the "intruder alert" alarm, and start actively looking around for you.

Also, one of the reasons the CoX AI seems dumb is because the standard mobs don't have access to most of the player powers. Custom mobs can, however, and a buddy of mine got in real trouble fighting enemies in the Rooster Teeth AE missions because the baddies had access to Build Up and activated it before they'd attack. Those mobs weren't really "smart," but the existing AI can pull some good tricks with access to the right abilities.

As far as allied NPCs go, I've always found Faultline to be fairly intelligent in applying his powers. He will get lost if you turn two corners, though. I guess he doesn't wear his glasses because they clash with that cool leather jacket.

I dont like smart AI in games where you fight lots of enemies (like you do in COH). I just want to come home, relax, and tear into some bad guys. The last thing I want to deal with is enemies that always hit and run, or that always run, or that always space away as far apart as they can so area effects miss, or always avoid ice patches, etc.

Tedious.

"Smarter AI" can (somewhat) mean a few things. It'd be interesting to have enemies use terrain, etc. - but tied in with everyone doing it, it'd kill the servers.

Now, "Smart behaviour" and reacting to things can be programmed in in various ways without necessarily dealing with giving it AI. For instance:

Current:
Your blaster comes across a patrol. You fight, most die, but one runs right into the next group. A quick ranged shot and they're down - with the other group still just standing around the now-defeated enemy on the floor, still having coffee or whatnot.

"Smart" (or, perhaps better, "More Aware") :
You come across a patrol. You fight, most die, but one runs toward the next group. You fire, but he comes into range of the next group yelling "Help, enemy sighted!" The next group then aggros on you.

Alternately:
You're trying to sneak through. You see a patrol and let them pass, following them with stealth on. There's another group, but they "relax" when they see the patrol - they're not calling out for help, everything must be OK, so they don't really pay attention to the little "shimmer" you have from stealth as you sneak by, and/or their defense is lowered for the next 10 seconds.

(Yes, part of this is from Aion, where some patrols - some MuMu, Flagbearers and such, you REALLY have to be careful with. If they're in range of something else when they call for help, it *will* come running. In a game where 1 player vs 2 mobs can be a fight, I've seen ten enemies chasing one player who's running like hell.)

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Why are you putting "challenge" in quotes each and every time you use the word?

You should just come out and say that you don't think the challenge presented by a more intelligent AI is really much of a challenge at all.

Which, given the argument you just presented, doesn't make any sense at all...

You keep using quotation marks. I do not think it means what you think it means!

As I understand it, the AI in this game is deliberately limited below its full potential. It was either Positron or Castle I think who said "Do you really want to fight an AV that's smart enough to kite you?"