So I was thinking...


ClawsandEffect

 

Posted

Iv recently come back to this game, and find that the majority of power sets arnt being used by the population of the game, due to the more Min/Max, or perfered Cookie sets that the majority of players use.

Before I continue, I would like to point out, that I am not insulting anyone for there choices in there game play, nore am I dictating what someone else will, or should find fun.This is a personal observation, as well as a subject to renew my enjoyment of the game on a personal level.

Iv been comming up with some new Character concepts, and have been attaching them to power sets that are vastly unused, or barly ever touched due to bad reputation.

I see alot of people on Fire/Kin Controllers, as well as Elec/SD Scrappers, DM/SD Brutes, EMP/ only Defenders, and the list does go on, but its rather short.

These are builds im avioding, not because I dont like the sets, but mainly because everyone and there dog uses them.I just dont find it personally fun when there are 30 Scrappers in a zone, all with the same build and power sets, when there are like 35 Scrappers in the zone total.It just doesnt seem fun to me to not stand out from another player, by bringing diffrent power sets to the table.

So far, my enjoyment has come from builds like my Dark/Dark Defender, that has not only gained compliments from some, who are simply marveling at the fact that someone leveled a pure dark defender past level 14.Then there are those that scoff at it, which im learning to ignore, but im passed up on teams alot, and Iv solo'd the last 29 levels.Theres alot of spoken, and unspoken biast over what someones power sets are, especially on a Defender.If your not a Kin/, EMP/, or Rad/ primary, they seem to over look you in favor of the already mentioned sets, and may end up taking you, simply because your a last resort.(Kinda feels like the last person to be picked for a middle school basketball team during gym, and your picked last, after the fat kid.)

Im not really complaining, its acctually making me happy now, and im taking it as a compliment.I can solo +3/6 Missions on my Dark/Dark Defender, mainly because nothing can hit me, and if I do get hurt my massive heal that gives half my HP back is on a 4 second timmer, and the fact that im being smart about the build allows me to drop 2 Tar Patches for double the Resistance/Def% DeBuff, making mobs way easier to melt with my 2 AoEs.(Recharge SOs are nice when slotted properly, and hasten, I wonder how nasty ill be with Global Recharge!)

Sure, its no Fire/Kin Controller, but does it have to be?Of coarse not.

Iv also noted with my Defender, that the numbers for the damage on its attacks, are a bit deciving.Negative energy is among the most unresisted damage types in the game, especially end game with the Carnies and Aliens.So it evens out in the long run.

As the subject does pretain to theme, its starting to become the main forcus of me playing the game, and sends me to pick some odd choices for power sets.

My next project is a Vangaurd Themed Scrapper, that will be using Claws and Invln for the themed choices, and will be a Natural Scrapper.It will be taken to the RWZ as soon as it can to gain access to the Vanguard Laser Claws, as well as the Vanguard Armor Pieces for his costume to make him be a Civilian who joined the Vanguard, due to his family being killed in a invasion, and wants revenge.I think it would be pretty cool to have my own Vanguard Soldier!

The Vanguard Armor is supposed to be made of Impervium Alloy, so I can easly pass off Invln with that concept.Ill be coloring the suit and the laser claws to match the Vanguard, for Authenticity.

I find the Arachnos, and the Vanguard to be some of the more interesting Group Concepts of most any comic books iv ever read from Marvel or DC.

I have a few more concepts in mind, but, I wanna hear if anyone else has any ideas to make themed characters, and if so, what kind?


 

Posted

Well, it's not about themed characters, but I'll touch on some other points you made.

You'll find that pretty much everything gets played on Scrappers, even by the min/max crowd, or even perhaps especially by the min/max crowd. There are better and worse combinations for different purposes and budget levels, but they're all good, and nicely balanced overall.

I suspect that the reason you see so many Electric/Shield Defense Scrappers is that Electric Melee is new, Shield Defense is relatively new, and it's a great combination for AoE damage. The likely reason you see so many Dark Melee/Shield Defense Scrappers is that it's arguably the top Scrapper combination for single-target DPS, plus it's very survivable, plus again, Shield Defense is still new and shiny.

Personally, I've started work on a Martial Arts/Fiery Aura Scrapper. I'm doing it specifically because it seemed like the worst scrapper combination I could come up with, and I haven't played that primary or secondary. I'm only 5, but it's been fun so far, and I honestly don't anticipate any problems with normal content. I came up with a look I like, which is half the battle.

Anyway, it's pretty much impossible to gimp yourself with merely your primary and secondary choice on a Scrapper. You have to actively mess up your power pools and slotting too. Claws/Invuln will be great.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Werner pretty much touched upon all the combos that seem common, and why they are are so. Fire/Kin is insane, capable of taking down GMs due to it's -regen powers and raw DPS.

Emp/ Defenders are picked up more often because a great deal of the general player base views healing as the ultimate support, however, I prefer to team with Sonic/ Defenders due to their resistance and damage buffing. Don't get me wrong, Emp/ certainly comes with excellent recovery and some nice buffs in the form of Fortitude, and other sets offer excellent tools as well, but I like Sonic/.

As far as concept builds go, I am an RPer and a good concept is integral to my ability to stick with a character for the long haul. This said, some combos don't synergize as well as others and you do lose some overall usefulness to teams if said combo doesn't, in the case of scrappers, ensure survivability or is lacking in damage output compared to players with more optimal choices in these areas. So, as Werner said, there is no Scrapper combo that will negate your ability to do normal content, however, there are combos that will preclude you from achieving what a more optimized build could.

Finally, I leave you with a link to a free online spellchecker.

http://orangoo.com/spellcheck/


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Martial Arts/Fiery Aura Scrapper. I'm doing it specifically because it seemed like the worst scrapper combination I could come up with
What about MA/Invuln?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverado View Post
What about MA/Invuln?
*/Invuln isn't nearly as bad as it used to be since the change to Unyielding. I'm actually considering making my next Tanker an Invuln/Mace because, after playing with the numbers on a few Scrappers and Tankers, I'm really starting to think it could be fun to play and tough to kill.

MA/FA really is about as bad as you can get on a Scrapper (which is kinda sad because it's still pretty effective): */FA offers the lowest survivability of the armor sets and doesn't provide a really significant offensive increase to compensate, and MA/* lacks significant internal synergy, low AoE capability, and low overall utility.

However, I'm gonna laugh when Werner ends up soloing some AVs with that toon just to demonstrate that even the theoretical "worst" Scrapper powerset combination is still a force to be reckoned with. While MA/* is generally considered to be the "worst" attack set, it's still capable of putting out respectable damage. Not much can be said to redeem */FA though, especially when you compare it to */SD.


 

Posted

Well, it does have Crippling Axe Kick and Burn.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.

 

Posted

Yea, concept all the way for me. When I start a new toon, and well, it's gonna be a scrapper, I start from what name I can get added with maybe a costume peice or set I like alot. Then I'll try and figure out a powerset to go with it.

Timeskip was my Ouroboros Mender character with top level time travel / manipulation powers. In and of itself not that offensive and defensive minded power to be thwarting evil with. So he travels through time and learns the sword and shield to augment his skills and becomes a Mender. I had a concept, wanted to use all five costume slots on period armor and weapons, then grabbed BS/SD and ran with it.

Azurial is my fallen angel scrapper. Had a name and concept, liked the new Valkyrie costume set, then jumped on fire melee when it was ported over and combined it with willpower. Flaming sword, wings, halo, bright glowing willpower auras, he works well on lots of levels.

Dragon Prince was my last scrapper to hit 50, I wanted a martial arts themed guy and got the name I wanted. Dual Blades and Super reflexes fit the toon well. Sadly the new MA Booster Pack didn't come out until a week after I hit 50. He sure looks cool now though.

Now here's where I could use some help, I've got a new name and look a like alot, just can't find a powerset to roll with it. Mr. Sandman is the name, I took shields cause they're fun and the stone shield with a light brown hue looks almost sandlike. The primary has me stumped though. I took fire melee and customized the powers to be more brown and tan looking (sword and fire effects), but it's a bit of a stretch and I'm not quite sold on it.


 

Posted

Concept is very important to me, but there's no reason why you can't fit a concept around a powerset combo that happens to be powerful. I rolled a DM/SD after seeing what that combo could do w/ST DPS, but fit a concept around the powers (half demonic guardian of the shadows). I also like playing w/different powers (never duplicate powersets within an AT) so I play just about every primary/secondary. I will say I don't play MA or Claws (yet), because I've never been excited about them enough to think of a concept (would be easy enough to do). Conversely, even though Spines has been the AoE king since launch, it was only w/custom weapon graphics that I finally was able to roll one up to fit a concept that would be acceptable to me.

BTW, I find the OP's comments about a D3 ironic considering they're one of the most powerful defenders out there (I'll take a D3 over an Emp/* any freakin' day of the week and I'd hazard so would most experienced players). Maybe you should stop teaming w/ppl who just want their healorz & SB-bots, and you might even find some good (well played, well thought out) Fire/Kins out there.


An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
I'm gonna laugh when Werner ends up soloing some AVs with that toon just to demonstrate that even the theoretical "worst" Scrapper powerset combination is still a force to be reckoned with.
Heh. While there might be a build out there to do so, that's really not my goal. My goal, if you can even call it a goal, is to have fun with it from 1-50.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Well, it does have Crippling Axe Kick and Burn.
Well, but Crippling Axe Kick is only a single enemy, and Burn is an AoE, so I don't think of that as much synergy. We also discussed which epic I should take to make sure I didn't pick up any synergies. Body is out, because I'll really need the extra endurance it provides. Darkness is out, because you can leverage Tenebrous Tentacles and Burn. We might have said no to Weapon, because of Caltrops and Burn. So I think it's supposed to be Martial Arts/Fire/Fire to avoid any synergies. Still, I should be able to put out some decent damage that way if I can get my endurance usage under control. I figure I'll just do some massive frankenslotting with 90% endurance reduction in all my attacks.

Trying to stay more on topic, as far as I get into concept is generally name and costume and maybe an explanation for powers. Name is Dead Black. All the fire effects are colored black. Huge model. Black leather pants, boots and belt. Black skin. White skull painted on scarred face. Looks brutal. No explanation for powers, but I think I took a Magic origin, which lets me just say "It's magic!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisky_Jack View Post
Azurial is my fallen angel scrapper.
I have Azurael for my Shield Defense/Dark Melee demon Tank. Small world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whisky_Jack View Post
Now here's where I could use some help, I've got a new name and look a like alot, just can't find a powerset to roll with it. Mr. Sandman is the name, I took shields cause they're fun and the stone shield with a light brown hue looks almost sandlike. The primary has me stumped though. I took fire melee and customized the powers to be more brown and tan looking (sword and fire effects), but it's a bit of a stretch and I'm not quite sold on it.
Dark melee with tan power effects looks pretty sandy. That's what I did with Azurael, but also tinged with red. I was going more for fire and sulphur, but kind of ended up at sand accidentally. If sand is what you actually want, you're golden.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

I'll echo Werner with a vote for DM if you want sand powers.
You can easily color them tan, and the particle effects will look like what you want them to.
As a bonus, you could easily conceptualize dm's -tohit debuffs as the obvious effects of throwing sand in your enemey's faces.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Heh. While there might be a build out there to do so, that's really not my goal. My goal, if you can even call it a goal, is to have fun with it from 1-50.


Well, but Crippling Axe Kick is only a single enemy, and Burn is an AoE, so I don't think of that as much synergy. We also discussed which epic I should take to make sure I didn't pick up any synergies. Body is out, because I'll really need the extra endurance it provides. Darkness is out, because you can leverage Tenebrous Tentacles and Burn. We might have said no to Weapon, because of Caltrops and Burn. So I think it's supposed to be Martial Arts/Fire/Fire to avoid any synergies.
Fireball/Fiery Embrace might count as a synergy.

You could just take an epic and avoid taking the synergistic powers -- like Darkness mastery and just taking Torrent.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
*/Invuln isn't nearly as bad as it used to be since the change to Unyielding. I'm actually considering making my next Tanker an Invuln/Mace because, after playing with the numbers on a few Scrappers and Tankers, I'm really starting to think it could be fun to play and tough to kill.
I'm a convert to Inv/ on Tankers. I also have mature Shield, Fiery Aura, and Stone Tankers, and I have fun with all of them...but for certain kinds of ears-pinned-back heavy combat I find the Invulnerability set the most fun.


If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
Well, it does have Crippling Axe Kick and Burn.
Yeah, no, I really can't recommend that combo. I tried it for awhile on my MA/Fire and it just isn't worth the effort to make Burn effective. Teamed up, you can often make spectacular use of Burn, but while solo it's just too much time/work invested to make it work. Just hit 49 on my MA/Fire and I'd highly recommend it.

I also think perception gets skewed for people who visit the forums. Running around in game, people have all sorts of crazy builds and combos, but on the boards it's mainly about getting the best builds possible.


They ALL float down here. When you're down here with us, you'll float too!

@Starflier

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
*/Invuln isn't nearly as bad as it used to be since the change to Unyielding. I'm actually considering making my next Tanker an Invuln/Mace because, after playing with the numbers on a few Scrappers and Tankers, I'm really starting to think it could be fun to play and tough to kill.
Invuln is extremely tough. You can get a build that's softcapped to everything except Psi with 1 enemy in range very easily, capped S/L resistances on top of that and massive heal/+HP. It's a well-respected Tanker primary. I have no idea why it doesn't get as much press on the Scrapper forums, although Nihili proved it was amazing by soloing just about everything in the game last year.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laevateinn View Post
Invuln is extremely tough. You can get a build that's softcapped to everything except Psi with 1 enemy in range very easily, capped S/L resistances on top of that and massive heal/+HP. It's a well-respected Tanker primary. I have no idea why it doesn't get as much press on the Scrapper forums, although Nihili proved it was amazing by soloing just about everything in the game last year.

One of my new stable of project toons is a DM/inv scrapper.

On paper, and in my experience to date, it's utterly unkillable and destroys everything in its path. If I set it up as planned it will be close to soft cap, have hearty resists vs all but psi, and a pair of nice, beefy self-heals.

Yeah. After all those years of over-nerfage, invuln is finally worth playing again.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Dark Melee/Invuln is probably your Scrapper of choice if you're trying to beat the record for number of dev-created AVs soloed simultaneously without temps or inspirations. What's it up to now, eight? Nine?
I thought Nihilii actually did 17 AVs at once some time ago on a DM/Inv she specifically designed for the challenge.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
I thought Nihilii actually did 17 AVs at once some time ago on a DM/Inv she specifically designed for the challenge.
I thought it was Aliana Blue at the aggro cap, but my memory ain't always so great. Whoever it was, I'm pretty sure it was with custom AVs, not with dev AVs.


"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded View Post
So far, my enjoyment has come from builds like my Dark/Dark Defender, that has not only gained compliments from some, who are simply marveling at the fact that someone leveled a pure dark defender past level 14.Then there are those that scoff at it, which im learning to ignore, but im passed up on teams alot, and Iv solo'd the last 29 levels.Theres alot of spoken, and unspoken biast over what someones power sets are, especially on a Defender.If your not a Kin/, EMP/, or Rad/ primary, they seem to over look you in favor of the already mentioned sets, and may end up taking you, simply because your a last resort.(Kinda feels like the last person to be picked for a middle school basketball team during gym, and your picked last, after the fat kid.)
My second 50 was a Dark/Dark Defender. I greatly enjoyed that character... except that the heal seemed to only miss when I really need it.

Also, to contribute to your anecdotal evidence: recently I have seen TAs apologize for not having a heal after I have invited them to a team. I actually /e boggled. I told them that TA is a good set, and I am glad I have one on the team... and that any jerk who makes you feel like you need to apologize is just that: a jerk.

Quote:
As the subject does pretain to theme, its starting to become the main forcus of me playing the game, and sends me to pick some odd choices for power sets.
This is all the game has ever really been about for me. Period.

Quote:
My next project is a Vangaurd Themed Scrapper, that will be using Claws and Invln for the themed choices, and will be a Natural Scrapper.It will be taken to the RWZ as soon as it can to gain access to the Vanguard Laser Claws, as well as the Vanguard Armor Pieces for his costume to make him be a Civilian who joined the Vanguard, due to his family being killed in a invasion, and wants revenge.I think it would be pretty cool to have my own Vanguard Soldier!
I just have to ask one question... try not to take it the wrong way. If you are bothered by cookie-cutter builds, then why is it that doing a character concept hundreds if not thousands of characters already have doesn't bother you?

Quote:
I have a few more concepts in mind, but, I wanna hear if anyone else has any ideas to make themed characters, and if so, what kind?
All of my characters have some sort of theme. All of my characters have a back-story written in their bio box (or soon will).

At the moment, I am trying NOT to make any new characters, as the ones I have are plenty. [Click the image in my sig for a sampling of them.]



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven View Post
I just have to ask one question... try not to take it the wrong way. If you are bothered by cookie-cutter builds, then why is it that doing a character concept hundreds if not thousands of characters already have doesn't bother you?
(Its kinda hard to exsplain, but I shall try.)

Well, the reason why the Vanguard Theme, that im sure has been done before, holds some interest to me.

Specifically because its a group, not just power sets.The group does have many soldiers that are like one another, because they have the same training, and roughly the same equipment, and are effectivly a Army comprised of mainly regular Humans.

In the same way, Arachnos is a Faction just like they are, however you can make a acctual Arachnos Soldier as a Epic on the red side, and they are nothing more then Human Soldiers from a diffrent army.

I guess what im attempting to do is make a Collection of Toy Soldiers that I can pick at my leasure to play with.You cant choose the Vanguard like you can the Arachnos, so im going to be making my own Soldiers that are Themed like they are.(atleast 2 or 3 if I can make power concepts match close enough)

When it comes to the Arachnos Soldiers, im going to have some work on my hands.I want to do a Crab, Huntsman, Blood Widow, Soldier, ....you Get the Idea.(i want one of each)

I personally have always found in comic books, that my favorite kinds of heroes and villians, are human.No powers, no mutation, so X-Ray vision, or super strength, just a well trained Human.

Not to say that I find super powers dull, I acctually like them, but I perfer a Human vs a God.They struggle more, fight harder, and train harder then any super powered being out there, because they must to obtain the same goals.

On a side note, if they allowed you to get Longbow costume parts in the same way you can for the Vanguard, id be making a few Themed Characters from there group as well.As it stands, I may be able to do that anyway, because if I take a closer look at a Spec Ops from LB, that one may be doable due to the costume from what I can see, is mainly comprised of Stealth pieces, and AR/Dev would very easly sit as the sets for that character.

Anyhow, I hope in some way this answered that question.If it didnt,then I guess just saying "Cause I want it.", will have to do.


 

Posted

MA may be the "worst" set, but its still my favorite and the most fun for me. And I think it fits the scrapper concept more so than most of the other sets just because, to me, it feels more like a comic scrapper. I know there are plenty of examples of swords and what not in comics, but most scrapper-comic people use the trusty punches and kicks.

I read half the post then had to post the above reply on MA.

To the OP. I've always just played what I wanted that fit a concept I had in mind. If its the FotM, then so be it. If it ends up suckin, so be it.

I have a 50 dm/inv that was made when both were laughed at as being below par, especially /inv. But that was the concept I came up with for a vampire toon. Now they are running around quite a bit, but who cares really.

My main, MA/SR, and first toon, 4-5 years ago was probably the absolute worst combination you could probably pick back then. Then IOs came out and I was runnin around tanking and getting complement after complement about how BA he is. Now SR is pretty common, MA still not so much, but either way still doesn't bother me. He is fun as hell to play and I enjoy it, which is to me the main thing.

And sometimes I will just pick a primary and a secondary that I either havent tried or don't currently have one of. My lastest scrapper is BS/WP. I've had a couple wp toons and one BS toon, but none made it to 50, and none still exist. I'll elude to my concept.....in the end, there can be only one (self rez power was the kicker for me).

Also, have you seen a high level EM/SD in action? Its quite impressive. I made a elec/elec just to try out LR. After the new wore off I just didn't like the toon cause there was no real concept.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starflier View Post
Yeah, no, I really can't recommend that combo. I tried it for awhile on my MA/Fire and it just isn't worth the effort to make Burn effective. Teamed up, you can often make spectacular use of Burn, but while solo it's just too much time/work invested to make it work. Just hit 49 on my MA/Fire and I'd highly recommend it.

I also think perception gets skewed for people who visit the forums. Running around in game, people have all sorts of crazy builds and combos, but on the boards it's mainly about getting the best builds possible.
Did someone forget Dragon's Tail used with Burn?Given enough Global Recharge, both could be spammed.

By the way, a MA/Fire Scrapper is anything but weak.