Anything /shield or /SR really, assuming you invest in enough IOs to softcap.
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I think SR seems the most survivable as well. I think shield does give it a run for its money, but the lack of easily obtained or enhanced defense debuff resistance bugs me. Shield seems to be in a pretty stark danger from Cims and Nemisis. At least SR has around 95% defense debuff resistance.
This means far less chance of cascading defense failure and the passive scaling resists really help stretch your HP. Not sure I'd trade all that in for a bit more damage and an AoE with a long recharge.
Unfortunately, I don't feel any resistance sets chance really give solid defensive sets like SR much of a challenge in the survivability rate unless we were to get away from general survivability and start nit picking niche survivability.
So, I guess SR has two votes so far.
I'd say I'd wager that DM/SR is likely the most survivable combination in my book due to solid defense mechanisms along with stacking to-hit debuffs and a self healing attack.
That isn't a fair question. There are circumstances where just about every set will falter.
For example, Rularru have +to-hit bonuses that devastate defense builds that in most situations are unstoppable. Against Rularru, I would probably bring an elec or a willpower brute.
Even granite armor can struggle against certain enemies. Throw enough psi damage at a granite brute and it can feel pretty squishy.
The devs have done a fairly decent job at making sure that just about every set has an achilles heel. What players determine, then is which of those weaknesses is the least prevalent in the game. Hence, a SR or a Shield.
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I'm going to say that a soft-capped (Smashing/Lethal with one target in Invincibility) DM/Invuln/Soul is the most survivable Brute. There are builds that are effectively softcapped to all types but psi with the aid of Darkest Night. Dull Pain, Touch of Fear, and Siphon Life more than handle the few dangerous psi dealers out there.
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Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
So, what does the forums community think? What is the most survivable brute combination ignoring granite armor for these purposes?
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DM/SR is the best option.
Anything can be built to insane levels with billions of inf, but a DM/SR can be near unstoppable at 36-37 for reasonable sums of inf and with fairly common stuff. /Shield would need more levels and alot more inf, and the not so well stocked black market makes it a long process.
DM gives you +heal, a really nice, long lasting build up in Soul Drain, endurance recovery, lots of tohit debuffs to help you in the pre-softcap levels and against targets with +tohit, and an immobilize.
SR will bring a much needed +20% recharge to help DM perform, and with the stacking of Practiced Brawler you'll be pretty much as hard to mez as a granite tank. With +regen set bonuses, the scaling resists that gives you 60% res when you're nearly dead and the insane def debuff resists you'll be surfing the end game.
Build for recharge and DM will put out silly amounts of single target dps, even though you don't have the AAO dmg buff like shields. Shields however adds a very nice AoE that complements DM very nicely.
Basically, if you got huge bags of inf stacked go with dm/sd and you'll be very hard to kill, but if you just want something that has minimal effects and is even harder to kill, go with dm/sr.
Any and all spelling, grammar and logic errors are intentional so this post will blend seamlessly into the Internet
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This is very ture Tonality and, I think, that is what makes it a difficult question. Really, without taking those niche scenarios into account, what would you believe would be the most generally survivable brute against the largest majority of encounters? (I left granite armor out, because I feel with its high defense and resistances all wrapped up into one power the answers would skew too much toward it).|
Originally Posted by Tonality
That isn't a fair question. There are circumstances where just about every set will falter.
For example, Rularru have +to-hit bonuses that devastate defense builds that in most situations are unstoppable. Against Rularru, I would probably bring an elec or a willpower brute. Even granite armor can struggle against certain enemies. Throw enough psi damage at a granite brute and it can feel pretty squishy. The devs have done a fairly decent job at making sure that just about every set has an achilles heel. What players determine, then is which of those weaknesses is the least prevalent in the game. Hence, a SR or a Shield. |
Also, interesting suggestion Julius. With the mixture of resistances, defenses, two methods of self healing, and to-hit debuffs a DM/Invuln might be up there for a top contender for the most survivable combination.
I'm interested in hearing some other combinations and why they'd be considered....or on the other hand, why a suggested combination might not be viewed as the top contending generalist survivor.
A softcapped WP Brute will be very hard to take down
My SS/WP Brute (heavy IOs) and Fire/SR Brute (heavy IOs) are about the same in terms of overall survivability. There are occasions where one is better than the other. For instance, I've had better luck with the SR Brute on Mothership raids and better luck with my WP Brute on the RSF.
I would say SR and WP tied for most survivable followed by Shields and Invunerability (if we aren't counting Granite).
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I have to lolz giving 2 votes but I digress...|
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
I think SR seems the most survivable as well. I think shield does give it a run for its money, but the lack of easily obtained or enhanced defense debuff resistance bugs me. Shield seems to be in a pretty stark danger from Cims and Nemisis. At least SR has around 95% defense debuff resistance.
This means far less chance of cascading defense failure and the passive scaling resists really help stretch your HP. Not sure I'd trade all that in for a bit more damage and an AoE with a long recharge. Unfortunately, I don't feel any resistance sets chance really give solid defensive sets like SR much of a challenge in the survivability rate unless we were to get away from general survivability and start nit picking niche survivability. So, I guess SR has two votes so far. I'd say I'd wager that DM/SR is likely the most survivable combination in my book due to solid defense mechanisms along with stacking to-hit debuffs and a self healing attack. |
SD isn't just a defense set, it has good resists and +HP as well. I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the AoE, especially on a decent build with good recharge.
Infinity and Victory mostly
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Without using some pretty expensive HOs to slot active defense you just can't get a very good defense debuff resistance which leaves you very vunerable to defense debuffs, which are rather more common in the game than you might expect. You find them on my mob groups ranging from Outcast, CoT, Arachnos, Cims, Council, and tons more. Also, I do really like the +HP component to shield, but I don't think it does you as much benefit when you don't have resists, heals, or high regen to really take advantage of the boon.|
Originally Posted by Slax
I have to lolz giving 2 votes but I digress...
SD isn't just a defense set, it has good resists and +HP as well. I also wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the AoE, especially on a decent build with good recharge. |
I do see the benefit of a strong AoE, however, I think in terms of survivability a more solid defense is actually the better defense rather than the old addage the best defense is a good offense.
And "lolz" as you put it for two votes is...well "lolz" worthy, the topic is still young. ^_^
But it would seem that SR gets a bit of a vote of confidence so far.
To others, yes WP does seem to be pretty strong in most casts with good defenses (When built for it), decent resistances, and a strong regen, and hitpoint base to back it up. But on the same note it also seems to be vunerable to defense debuffs, the need for large groups to be at its most effective, -regen attacks (Which I think are positvely more rare than defense debuffs), and significant spike damage. What I wouldn't give for a non-interruptable self heal on WP.
I definitely give SR the edge in survivability over SD due to the scaling resists and better defense debuff resistance, but Shield Charge and AAO are just soooo sexy. 
It's a great tradeoff.
EDIT: I should add that WP is more survivable than SR in lower levels. SR (and SD) don't get really strong until you can layer on additional defenses through a combo of pool powers and set bonuses. If you're on a limited budget or below level 30, WP is probably going to be more survivable.
Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.
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The thing about SD is how all the various powers work in concert - especially if you're playing a SS/SD or a DM/SD. I personally would rank those two as the most survivable in most situations redside. Invuln will scream bloody murder at carnies, which you do encounter in the high levels.|
Originally Posted by Gospel_NA
Without using some pretty expensive HOs to slot active defense you just can't get a very good defense debuff resistance which leaves you very vunerable to defense debuffs, which are rather more common in the game than you might expect. You find them on my mob groups ranging from Outcast, CoT, Arachnos, Cims, Council, and tons more. Also, I do really like the +HP component to shield, but I don't think it does you as much benefit when you don't have resists, heals, or high regen to really take advantage of the boon.
I do see the benefit of a strong AoE, however, I think in terms of survivability a more solid defense is actually the better defense rather than the old addage the best defense is a good offense. And "lolz" as you put it for two votes is...well "lolz" worthy, the topic is still young. ^_^ But it would seem that SR gets a bit of a vote of confidence so far. To others, yes WP does seem to be pretty strong in most casts with good defenses (When built for it), decent resistances, and a strong regen, and hitpoint base to back it up. But on the same note it also seems to be vunerable to defense debuffs, the need for large groups to be at its most effective, -regen attacks (Which I think are positvely more rare than defense debuffs), and significant spike damage. What I wouldn't give for a non-interruptable self heal on WP. |
To begin with, shield has True Grit, which increases your regen indirectly - by increasing your max HP. The higher HP and regen rate helps against spike damage. Then you add in Against All Odds. This power not only buffs your own damage, but debuffs enemies, effectively acting as resistance on the limited numbers you already get. While SR offers scaling resists, SD is a bit more consistent, and helps against spiking, which the RNG seems to like doing.
With DM/SD you have layered -to-hit debuffs to stack onto your hopefully capped positions, and a heal that fits nicely in your attack chain. It's the character of choice for me when I want to Raid the Snake Temple. In the hands of a smart player, orange inspiration use goes a long way.
With SS/SD you have a tremendous amount of mitigation through damage and knockdown. With a fast-recharging footstomp (armageddon and FF proc) you can keep most enemies from attacking you. This particular strategy is very effective against elder snakes. You also have shield charge, which works as a mini-nuke to eliminate clear most minions and lieutenants.
You have Against All Odds stacking with Fury and Rage to achieve incredible amounts of damage which can clear enemies quickly and eliminate threats quickly.
Yes, you are vulnerable to defense debuffs, but I find that only PPD and Shivans are the ones that hurt the most, because they enjoy blasting at range. This also eliminates the potential for KD, which I can rely on against Cims.
My vote goes to SD, because damage is a form of survivability.
Ok, ill chirp in on this one.
Survivability is a very broad term in this game.Well, atleast in my eyes it is.Ill have to agree with all of the above replies, being that SR and SD make for heavy survivability, and even more so stacked with DM.
However, it can also be attributed to playing style as well to mark up whats survivable.I agree with Tonality when it comes to all sets have there Achilles Heel.
I however want to slap down my idea of most survivable Brute sets,and combonation, but before I do that, id like to toss in a breif history of why I feel what im about to state is more survivable, for me atleast.
I first signed onto this game when CoV hit the shelves, I was not here for the CoH only part of the game.However, the first Arch-Type that grabbed my attention, was Blasters.The lure of being a damage dealing juggernaught that had very little care for there own well being, was what pulled me in to that Class.
I shunned other classes, due to the Thrill I gained from playing a Blaster, and the jaw dropping damage they could shell out near death made the Blaster class even more pulse pounding, and exciting for me to play.
Alas, all of that ended when they changed Defiance.I was heart broken, and upset by the change.I never looked at Blasters the same way again, and slowly but surely, stopped playing that class completly.
Then i took a look at Brutes, and made a corrilation vs the old Defiance Bar and the Fury Bar.Sure, there was a large diffrence, mainly in how the damage modifier came about for the Brute.In some cases, its not very unlike the old Defiance when you jump into a mob, get knocked around, and all the sudden you have a decent Fury Bar and you dish out more damage.The major diffrence, is the fact you can recover your HP, without lossing your damaging edge during the fight.That was a definate plus for any Class iv tried, even Blasters.
Since then, the Old Blaster mantality has stuck with me.So survuvable to me means something diffrent.
My favorite all time Brute, that I personally find extreemly survivable, (Mainly due to my Blaster Mantality), is a SS/FA Brute.Nothing says lovin like a pissed off Rage + Fiery Embrace enduced Rage-aholic jumping into a mob.
Im pretty sure a Elc/SD, or DM/SD Brute could out class my Idea of a survivable Brute, however, My brute is rather survivable with only SOs.Not everyone will agree with me, but it does take a diffrent aprouch then other builds.
I for some reason, dont feel a pull to play SD or SR on any of the Melee Classes.I cant exsplain it, they just dont feel very fun to me.
Anyhow, iv been going on and on, but SS/FA would be my choice.
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That is a pretty compelling argument. |
Originally Posted by Tonality
The thing about SD is how all the various powers work in concert - especially if you're playing a SS/SD or a DM/SD. I personally would rank those two as the most survivable in most situations redside. Invuln will scream bloody murder at carnies, which you do encounter in the high levels.
To begin with, shield has True Grit, which increases your regen indirectly - by increasing your max HP. The higher HP and regen rate helps against spike damage. Then you add in Against All Odds. This power not only buffs your own damage, but debuffs enemies, effectively acting as resistance on the limited numbers you already get. While SR offers scaling resists, SD is a bit more consistent, and helps against spiking, which the RNG seems to like doing. With DM/SD you have layered -to-hit debuffs to stack onto your hopefully capped positions, and a heal that fits nicely in your attack chain. It's the character of choice for me when I want to Raid the Snake Temple. In the hands of a smart player, orange inspiration use goes a long way. With SS/SD you have a tremendous amount of mitigation through damage and knockdown. With a fast-recharging footstomp (armageddon and FF proc) you can keep most enemies from attacking you. This particular strategy is very effective against elder snakes. You also have shield charge, which works as a mini-nuke to eliminate clear most minions and lieutenants. You have Against All Odds stacking with Fury and Rage to achieve incredible amounts of damage which can clear enemies quickly and eliminate threats quickly. Yes, you are vulnerable to defense debuffs, but I find that only PPD and Shivans are the ones that hurt the most, because they enjoy blasting at range. This also eliminates the potential for KD, which I can rely on against Cims. My vote goes to SD, because damage is a form of survivability. |
I think, however, that many of those points can be applied to any well built character in the hands of a smart player. The calculated use of inspirations and mitigation tools are a standard of play that any CoX player should be using.
That leaves the major difference of a damage buffing aura and a mini-nuke. They do have their merits, no doubt, and I'd have to concur that that SD is certainly survivable.
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I've been pondering the survivability of SS/FA myself. It has fairly good resists and can be built with respectable defenses, Tonality is rather verse with such a character. I do have to say that Healing Flames is probably the most incredible self heal I've seen and would greedily steal it for almost any other set if I had the opportunity.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Ok, ill chirp in on this one.
Survivability is a very broad term in this game.Well, atleast in my eyes it is.Ill have to agree with all of the above replies, being that SR and SD make for heavy survivability, and even more so stacked with DM. However, it can also be attributed to playing style as well to mark up whats survivable.I agree with Tonality when it comes to all sets have there Achilles Heel. I however want to slap down my idea of most survivable Brute sets,and combonation, but before I do that, id like to toss in a breif history of why I feel what im about to state is more survivable, for me atleast. I first signed onto this game when CoV hit the shelves, I was not here for the CoH only part of the game.However, the first Arch-Type that grabbed my attention, was Blasters.The lure of being a damage dealing juggernaught that had very little care for there own well being, was what pulled me in to that Class. I shunned other classes, due to the Thrill I gained from playing a Blaster, and the jaw dropping damage they could shell out near death made the Blaster class even more pulse pounding, and exciting for me to play. Alas, all of that ended when they changed Defiance.I was heart broken, and upset by the change.I never looked at Blasters the same way again, and slowly but surely, stopped playing that class completly. Then i took a look at Brutes, and made a corrilation vs the old Defiance Bar and the Fury Bar.Sure, there was a large diffrence, mainly in how the damage modifier came about for the Brute.In some cases, its not very unlike the old Defiance when you jump into a mob, get knocked around, and all the sudden you have a decent Fury Bar and you dish out more damage.The major diffrence, is the fact you can recover your HP, without lossing your damaging edge during the fight.That was a definate plus for any Class iv tried, even Blasters. Since then, the Old Blaster mantality has stuck with me.So survuvable to me means something diffrent. My favorite all time Brute, that I personally find extreemly survivable, (Mainly due to my Blaster Mantality), is a SS/FA Brute.Nothing says lovin like a pissed off Rage + Fiery Embrace enduced Rage-aholic jumping into a mob. Im pretty sure a Elc/SD, or DM/SD Brute could out class my Idea of a survivable Brute, however, My brute is rather survivable with only SOs.Not everyone will agree with me, but it does take a diffrent aprouch then other builds. I for some reason, dont feel a pull to play SD or SR on any of the Melee Classes.I cant exsplain it, they just dont feel very fun to me. Anyhow, iv been going on and on, but SS/FA would be my choice. |
Of course, the big thing I like about Healing Flames is that it is basically a universal form of mitigation. Healing doesn't take any concern for what type of damage is being dealt or what the positional modifier is.
However, in most given situations, I'd say SS/FA would be outclassed in survivability, but by shouldn't be discounted by any means in terms of its hardiness.
SR: cheap to softcap, does well against defense debuffs, has passive +recharge in case you use your primary for mitigation; like all defense sets, dies horrible death to +tohit bonuses (admittedly slightly rare) and is vulnerable to streaks on the random number generator where the game just decides that it's time for you to go.
Shield: can be softcapped, with optimal slotting is also capped on defense debuff resistance, has +hp and permanent +resistance along with a -damage aura, One With the Shield boosts the resistances to respectable numbers; expensive to softcap, does slightly better than SR against +tohit but still suffers, defense based sets are vulnerable to random number generator hate.
Willpower: can be softcapped to most common damage types, has stupidly high regeneration and fair-to-middling resistances, does well against steady incoming damage even through defense debuffs; hates endurance drain and to a lesser extent -regeneration, does not like spike damage outside of Strength of Will.
I haven't played Invulnerability to high enough levels to comment on it (mine is level 31 and only has SOs slotted) but I'd imagine that with an emphasis placed on softcapping S/L defense and boosting Energy defense up to avoid endurance drains it would be good as well.
As for which of those 4 I'd put above the other.... describe the exact situation, because for general gameplay if you're not survivable enough on a Brute you're just plain doing it wrong, and which of those would be "best" would depend on what you're running into.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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I've not had any real survival problems on my Claws/Elec brute so far. It shrugs off hits from most damage types, and I've added Mu Lightning and Static Discharge to Focus and Shockwave, giving it plenty of ranged power when you take its high recharge into account. If an enemy is a pain for my brute to fight, I pop it a few times with ranged attacks and move in for the kill once it's knocked down and injured.
This mixed offense and defense strategy may not be optimal, but it's fun and effective.
Too many alts to list.
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Yeah but soft capping a WP brute would sacrifice too much HP and Reg wouldnt it?
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Originally Posted by Silverado
A softcapped WP Brute will be very hard to take down
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You'd still have more hp than SR and regen than Shields (or any other Brute secondary for that matter), even without set bonuses. If all of those are softcapped against the damage type(s) you're going to run into...
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Originally Posted by Tweeks
Yeah but soft capping a WP brute would sacrifice too much HP and Reg wouldnt it?
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Invulnerability has always been a soft spot for me. Nuff said 'cause I'm too lazy and tired to back up my thoughts. But, many peeps brought up g'points backing each set. Definately depends on the presented situation.
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I will give Trance credit with his SS/Invuln. That ...thing is more survivable than my DM/SD in some of Redside's most challenging content. |
Originally Posted by TrancEnding
Invulnerability has always been a soft spot for me. Nuff said 'cause I'm too lazy and tired to back up my thoughts. But, many peeps brought up g'points backing each set. Definately depends on the presented situation.
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That brute really is impressive.
So, what does the forums community think? What is the most survivable brute combination ignoring granite armor for these purposes?