Power effect combinations we just don't have
By
Bionic_Flea,
Posted on: 2010-01-12 10:33 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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It's not limited to 10. It's limited to floor(Death Magic / 2) + 2. While you can only get your Death Magic up to 12 through attribute points (giving you 8 minions), you can get your Death Magic higher with equipment (I believe maxing out at 16, giving you 10 minions). Aura of the Lich gives +1 Death Magic, and can be permanent if your Death Magic is higher than 15; Masochism adds +2 Death Magic, and can be permanent if your Death Magic is higher than 5. Finally, Grail of Might adds +1 to all attributes for 30 minutes, and the Necromancer of Grenth blessing gives +1 to all Necromancer attributes for 20 minutes or until you zone. 19 Death Magic (16 from points and equipment, 3 from Aura of the Lich and Masochism) would be 11 minions, and adding either a Grail of Might or the Necromancer of Grenth blessing would get you up to 12.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
Used to be you could keep as many pets going as you were able to (normal players, around 20, though with some superbuilds you could have virtually infinite), but it's now limited to 10.
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So, you're limited to a max of 8 minions without equipment, 10 with equipment, 11 with equipment and spells, and 12 with equipment and spells and items/god's favor
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Well of (blank) - A targeted ground effect appears which effects all foes or allies in the area for a while. Some examples are Well of Blood which causes +regen in an area, or Well of Darkness which makes it harder for foes to attack.
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Well of Ruin: -res to any foe that takes physical damage (S/L?)
Well of Silence: Foes can't use shouts or chants, and constantly lose health
Well of Suffering: Foes constantly lose health
Well of the Profane: Foes lose all enchantments and cannot be targets by further enchantments
Well of Weariness: Foes constantly lose energy
Also, I think you missed probably my favorite corpse-exploitation spells in GW: Necrotic Traversal and Consume Corpse. (Both teleport to fresh corpse; the former poisons nearby enemies, the latter restores your health and energy)
Considering we have [Teleport], it's probably not as relevant in CoH, but Necrotic Traversal/Consume Corpse, in certain areas, can get you to a place otherwise unreachable. If you've also got Rebirth or Unyielding Aura (both resurrect a teammate and teleport them to you), you can get an entire team to unreachable locations. (There's also Sunspear Rebirth Signet, but that can only be used once per mission unless you get a morale boost from completing objectives or killing bosses)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Sorry. It's been a while since I played GW. It was flat-out limited to 10 in all situations last time I checked. Of course, the constant rebalance of necromancers and powers was what led me to eventually leave the game. Minionmastering went from a challenging but rewarding choice to a horrendously difficult and un-fun career path. Over time stuff got more and more restrictive with the limit of minions and the dozen changes to Soul Reaping. I didn't stay too long after the minion cap and the changes to the sacrifice and minion powers. And last I logged in to check, there was a refire rate on Soul Reaping.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
It's not limited to 10.
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Notably, the pet limit was shortly after some friends and I published some screenshots of us running a team that had 101 Flesh Golems on one character with a power-build we came up with. We also decimated the Fissure of Woe with such a team. I still have the screenshots if you don't believe me.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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These powers are also problematic against foes that don't leave corpses at all, like CoT Spectrals and many kinds of Rularuu.
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
The problem being is that corpses tend to fade out relatively quickly. Plus it would be that by the time your power effects come into play, you don't need them: they're already dead. Also, what happens when you come up against a single hard foe (GM/EB/AV/Some Bosses)? With no corpses to fuel yourself, you're at a disadvantage.
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I know we have some whip action coming in Demon summoning, but I think that they could make an entire set with existing effects and some creative animation. With power/weapon customization, you might be able to chose between a rope or an effect that could be colorized for more Green Lantern-esque, telekinetic, or other fun back stories.
1) Lasso - Your whip forms a hoop, encasing your foe and preventing him from attacking - your basic hold.
2) Whiplash - A quick, low damage, fast recharging power with a chance to disorient.
3) Whirligig - Your whip coils around your foe, immobilizing him. You quickly jerk it back causing foe to spin in place and knocking back others nearby (whirlwind).
4) Firewhip - You set your whip on fire and target an enemy damaging him and those around him (targetted AOE, like Fireball)
5) Allez-oop - Your whip encircles your foe and a quick tug lifts him into the air and sends him flying (lift). I'd like it even better if it pulled and dropped the enemy behind you with an inverted knockback or a teleport effect.
6) Aim - Duh.
7) Double-whip - You crack two whips at your foes, injuring multiple enemies with a chance of reducing perception and a chance to disorient.
8) Giddy-up - You crack your whip behind an ally temporarily causing increased attention and motivation (enforced morale)
9) Round-up - You flail both whips all around you at incredible speeds causing massive damage. The multiple sonic booms disorients survivors and reduces their perceptions.
50s: Inv/SS PB Emp/Dark Grav/FF DM/Regen TA/A Sonic/Elec MA/Regen Fire/Kin Sonic/Rad Ice/Kin Crab Fire/Cold NW Merc/Dark Emp/Sonic Rad/Psy Emp/Ice WP/DB FA/SM
Overlord of Dream Team and Nightmare Squad
Actually, on the corpse note, I wonder if it'd be possible to make a stationary pseudopet (see: Triage Beacon) that raised a weak pet from every enemy corpse in range every so often. If you set the duration between ticks equal to the time it takes a corpse to fade, it'd only hit each one once. Could make for some interesting strategies. Or maybe I just like the idea of a Gang War of ghosts.
Another that occured to me, related to the super-debuff thing in the first post: A Shield Charge-style debuff. You teleport into the enemy group and appear with a flash so bright that it gives them a huge -ToHit and a stun for a few seconds or something. It could be a fun alpha-taker for a control or armor set.
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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I hate playing minion master in GW. That's why I've got a minion master hero following me around |
Originally Posted by Dispari
Minionmastering went from a challenging but rewarding choice to a horrendously difficult and un-fun career path.
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(... and a necromancer healer hero... and a necromancer nuker hero...)
Heroes are really good at using powers which only work properly under specific conditions. Myself, I stick with taking out hard targets using Air magic. All my attacks have 25% armor penetration, and one of them applies Cracked Armor to the target
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Originally Posted by Dispari
And last I logged in to check, there was a refire rate on Soul Reaping.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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I loved it. With only about 9 points in Soul Reaping I could put a few other points in Blood Magic for some other spells and effects. If I was on a roll and the team was moving fast, I could sustain around 20 pets. It was constant work but it was fun and rewarding. At slower times I could get around 10 pets alive steadily. Most minionmasters at that time would only use Fiends, but I would mix Fiends and Horrors so that I could animate twice as fast and grab twice as many corpses. It made it possible for me to build a larger army of around 20 pets at a time, as long as I always had fresh corpses (Verata's Sacrifice was needed to keep that many going, but over time the strength of that degraded until it no longer helped).|
Originally Posted by Fleeting Whisper
I hate playing minion master in GW.
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Then they halved the number of pets I could have, reduced the uptime of Verata's Sacrifice by 75%, increased the sacrifice amount of Blood of the Master by 400%, and changed Soul Reaping so that 9 points of SR wasn't even close to enough to continually cast powers that cost 15 and 25 energy. Suddenly I was struggling to maintain half as many pets, sacrificing way more of my health, and losing my ability to use any Blood Magic powers on the side. 100% of my time was devoted to struggling to keep pets alive, and much of the time, myself.
Some friends and I cranked out some ideas and builds and came up with a way to keep around way more pets, but then they changed that so it didn't work anymore.
I adopted a build with a Flesh Golem where I'd always have at least one pet around and could build other ones if the team was doing well. I started doing Death Nova bombing with Taste of Death to trigger it. I was never really a fan of minion bombing though. I tried several variants including doing N/R so I could have one of those emo Black Moas and have two pets around all the time, with more if corpses were available. Eventually I just decided it wasn't fun anymore.
So I quit GW, came back to CoH, and made a Necro/Dark who is 50 now.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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My minion master hero and necro healer hero are both N/Rt. My necro nuker hero is N/Mo. My character is technically E/Mo, but the only Monk skill in my bar is Rebirth.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I tried several variants including doing N/R so I could have one of those emo Black Moas and have two pets around all the time, with more if corpses were available. Eventually I just decided it wasn't fun anymore.
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My Elementalist certainly enjoys Elemental Attunement + Air Attunement + Aura of Restoration. My air powers get 80% refund + 2 energy; any spell that costs less than 11 energy is entirely free (or even gives me energy back).
The most expensive Air Magic spell costs 25, so that'd be a net cost of 3. The only Air Magic cost below 25 and above 10 costs 15, for a net cost of 1.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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So wait you've already got enough endurance to attack continuously, but more recovery would be overpowering? By allowing you to do what exactly? I mean if you can already attack indefinitly, what are you using that extra recovery for? Sorry it just seems like such an obvious contradiction you confused me.|
Originally Posted by macskull
100 endurance (110 with accolades, potentially upwards of 120 between accos and IO sets) is enough to attack almost indefinitely assuming proper slotting and smart power usage. While a power such as this (or an ally +max end power) might be nice, it's probably too powerful given the way this game works.
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With regard to the OP, I still want an ally explosion power. I want to blow up my teammates. Give it a confirmation dialog so they can accept or decline. What would be ideal is if it was in a blast set, so you could roll AllyExplode/Rad. Blow up ally->Fallout->Rez
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I don't recall what Dev said it, but I am fairly certain that current tech prohibits this type of thing. It has been suggested a bunch of times as a way to "fix" several different powers in Gravity Control.
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Originally Posted by Mike_Ray
I would like some kind of "reverse repel". Specifically, Gravity Controllers and Dominators need a "Black Hole" power. It could work as something with a droppable target, or as an anchor attack on an enemy. Picture the opposite of Hurricane. A power that sucks enemies towards a central location, instead of pushing them away.
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The powers that use those phrases are not really possible, AFAI'mC. Why? Because they would be binary. If you encircle a foe, you can't also coil a different one. You would have a ton of mutually exclusive toggle mez powers at your disposal... powers that would also make it impossible to use any other whip powers while they are active. Think about it.|
Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
encasing your foe ... coils around your foe ...encircles your foe ...
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Also, the reason the whip is on fire in Demon Summoning? To mask the issues they had in making the whip look passable. I guess that type of bendy-ness doesn't mesh well with the visuals the game is good at pulling off. Exactly why is beyond me.
Also, I am fairly certain that it would look bizzarre encircling certain enemies, and having them be immobed... ghosts, spring to mind, but that is already an issue with Control powers, so that might be a moot point.
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I dunno, the frog demons in Circle use extendy whip-tongues and those look fine. Probably whips would look fine without fire. Just they were making a fire demon set and were getting ready to toss in Fire Blast and stuff and someone said "Hey, what about a fire whip?" And then someone said "Kewl d00d!" |
Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Also, the reason the whip is on fire in Demon Summoning? To mask the issues they had in making the whip look passable. I guess that type of bendy-ness doesn't mesh well with the visuals the game is good at pulling off. Exactly why is beyond me.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Not exactly a new effect combination, but I'd love a blast set where the tier 9 nuke is a superpowered Damage aura toggle - think fiery aura with Blizzard-level DoT and a bigger radius.
Make it a time limited toggle like the GvE jump pack, HUGE end cost whilst active, possibly with end crash at the end, usual nuke recharge time.
Not sure what the theme of the set would be - could shoe horn it into Pistols as some kind of Equilibrium style gun frenzy
I orignally came up with the idea when an SG mate and I were batting around ideas for a sonic melee set where it had the additional effect of giving you super-super speed for the duration - the idea being that your're damaging people with the sonic boom of your motion.
Union 50s:
Crimson Cannon: NRG/NRG/Force
Tara Thorn: Archery/NRG/Elec
Damatria: BS/SD/Body
Defend the Earth from Aliens in my MA Arc: ID:57186
I can imagine this being very hard to create but what about range vs accuracy type powers.
I have always thought it'd be easier to hit something if you stood closer, but no matter how far you are from an enemy you hit the same. If your ranged powers were more more accurate the close to an enemy that would be more realistic, especially when you end up firing a power vertically because you missed at very close range =P. This could also be used with damage, becasue we all know that a shotgun at close range is brutal whereas a shotgun as long range is pretty pathetic.
Also on the subject of scaling buffs. Hows about shields that get stronger if there are other shields also effecting the char, or buffs that work in the same way as things like RttC or Invins. Or maybe a DeBuff that gets stronger for every enemy in range, though that be too overpowered.
The more adventurouse the effect the better!!
^_^
Summon/Control would be nice. Imagine putting the whole spawn in one spot with Wormhole then torching them with an Assault Bot...
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I found this to be the biggest problem playing a necromancer in Diablo II. When I came up against a hard boss, my pets would die too quickly, and I'd have a hard time trying to find more corpses to make new ones.
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Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Most of these ideas sound really cool and could be a lot of fun... except for this one.
The problem being is that corpses tend to fade out relatively quickly. Plus it would be that by the time your power effects come into play, you don't need them: they're already dead. Also, what happens when you come up against a single hard foe (GM/EB/AV/Some Bosses)? With no corpses to fuel yourself, you're at a disadvantage. I do like your notions on -Range though. That should be more prevalent, I think. |
Like it.
Any kind of toggle vampiric powers, -HEALTH, +FEAR leading to IMMOB, for example, could make a very cool control set.