Do you mean like a regular PBAoE attack or do you mean something more advanced? As I can understand it, you mean RotP working as a Post-death mechanism with the same effects, right?
@Global: Difficult One
Playing on European Servers (Union, Defiant)
If a person turns down an idea, he turns down an opportunity to evolve himself
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yep I just mean a regular pbaoe useable both when alive or laying of the ground defeated. It would give fire armor a mini nuke hybrid self res mixed into one. Shield already has it's mini nuke in shield charge so this would just one up shield and make the mini nuke useable with or without dying.
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Originally Posted by JanusFrs
Do you mean like a regular PBAoE attack or do you mean something more advanced? As I can understand it, you mean RotP working as a Post-death mechanism with the same effects, right?
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RotP is one power I've hated since it was first introduced. Why do you give a self-rez to one of the weaker armors, because you expect it to be defeated.
That said, it sounds like what you're asking for would give Fiery Aura four aoe attacks (B/A Burn RotP & Consume's minor damg) in adition to it's build up power, which would likely break Castle's formula for the respective sets.
Imagine your idea for FA matched up with Super Strength, you'd have Foot Stomp, RotP, Burn, Blazing Aura, all with Rage (80% damg buff) and Fiery Embrace (80% damg buff 10 sec).
If you slotted that setup for +recharge, you would have a new fotm for farming (well new fotm is relative, before burns nerf fa/ss was the farming setup).
-Oh btw, if your idea got green lighted, wouldn't it be much easier to rework your build using Dynamic Respecs..... ;]
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I would actually love this idea to be implemented for all of the self rez powers, though I'd first like to qualify it a bit.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Pretty simple really make it useable without dying but still useable when you die. It could be the shield charge of fire aura only PBAOE instead of TP attack. It may make fire feel like the offensive armor that it should instead of shield outshining it in everyway. What do you guys think?
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One of the big reasons why the self-rezzes are so potent is because they can only be used when you're already dead (numbers are for Scrappers). That's why RotP has such a significant stun (mag 4, 8.3 second), such nice damage (111 damage compared to Shield Charge's 133), and the incredibly powerful untouchable benefit. That's also why Resurgence has such huge buff numbers (100% +rech, 28% +dam, 21% +tohit). Every single one of the self rezzes (except for Revive, which is utterly pitiful) has substantial benefits attached to it.
To balance out the ability to use them while alive, it's most likely that the devs would reduce the effectiveness of the powers when used while alive (potentially based on a sliding scale based on your current hp with them being more powerful at lower health akin to the SR passives). They would most likely have a limited heal, less damage, and probably less or none of the other effects of the rezzes.
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^ This. I just rolled a Fire/Fire/(Fire) Blaster, and I dont want to lose part of my attack chain |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
As long as it loses absolutely none of its current functionality.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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This.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
As long as it loses absolutely none of its current functionality.
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Any spawn I can Solo down to 50%, I can wait a few seconds for HF to get close to recharging, Pop RotP, toggle up and finish off the spawn.
Folks have always been divided on this power, and I have been on the side that loves it.
Only self-rez I ever liked.
Ha, apparently someone doesn't agree with my perspective on RotP.
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Let me clarify. Specifically on a tank if you purposely die to use the power, sometimes you'll put your team in danger because of lost aggro.|
Your reputation on this post is Negative. Comments on this Post No, it does not mean "you expect to be defeated," get over it. |
If you don't expect to be regularly defeated, and you have one power which works only when you are, what's the point?
On Tanks why isn't this power coupled with Invulnerability, Stone, WP, or Shields, but only with the squishier armors?
Because Geko and Castle "expect" those weaker sets "to be defeated" at a higher ratio.
To me that's a loser power that can be skipped for something that may keep your toon alive, rather then one that assumes defeat is inevitable. ;]
I'd like to see RotP remodeled but it would have to be so neutered if it worked as OP suggested that it would be highly situational at best.
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A Tank (or any other character) that purposefully dies while on a team is going to be a character that I would look to dump. The last time I saw this was on a Hollows team, when someone still thought "Leeroy Jenkins" was funny and dove into a mega-spawn. Sadly, half the team followed.|
Originally Posted by Acemace
Let me clarify. Specifically on a tank if you purposely die to use the power, sometimes you'll put your team in danger because of lost aggro. |
Once that agro is lost, there would be heck to pay if that spawn is strong enough to kill more party members, rending the team weaker and weaker as each member falls. Unless the Tank were able to quickly get back up, toggle up and start grabbing agro again.
If that spawn is weak enough that the loss of the Tank doesn't put anyone at risk, then the Tank wasn't that badly needed, nor was the effects of using RotP.
Someone who purposefully dies? Unless it's a very weak teammate and someone else wants to use Vengeance and Fallout, I'm going to doubtful about the group.
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If you don't expect to be regularly defeated, and you have one power which works only when you are, what's the point? On Tanks why isn't this power coupled with Invulnerability, Stone, WP, or Shields, but only with the squishier armors? Because Geko and Castle "expect" those weaker sets "to be defeated" at a higher ratio. . To me that's a loser power that can be skipped for something that may keep your toon alive, rather then one that assumes defeat is inevitable. ;] I'd like to see RotP remodeled but it would have to be so neutered if it worked as OP suggested that it would be highly situational at best. |
I don't consider it a loser power, even if as a Fire Tank, I've been passed over on TF's for not being Stone.
At least my Tier 9 isn't so chintzy that it's handed out at Xmas as a Temp Power....*Looks at rewards for rescuing Baby New Year*
Ah, <Expletive>. Nevermind.
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If you purposely die as a tank (barring "for laughs,") you shouldn't be a tank. And ROTP, since you seem to not want to see it as anything but "a rez," gives health back as well as stuns and damages the enemies around you - where's that aggro you're losing? Staggering around, right around you, if the damage portion didn't finish them off first. |
Originally Posted by Acemace
Let me clarify. Specifically on a tank if you purposely die to use the power, sometimes you'll put your team in danger because of lost aggro.
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| If you don't expect to be regularly defeated, and you have one power which works only when you are, what's the point? |
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| On Tanks why isn't this power coupled with Invulnerability, Stone, WP, or Shields, but only with the squishier armors? |
Edit: Or, to flip things around:
"Invulnerability is obviously one of the weakest offensive sets. Hell, I can stand in the middle of enemies for hours and none of them will be killed by anything more tahn boredom. Even Stone has Mud Pots, at least."
Is Invuln broken or weak... or does it just have a different design goal aimed toward a different playstyle? Should Invuln be changed to fit the Fire/ playstyle?
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| Because Geko and Castle "expect" those weaker sets "to be defeated" at a higher ratio. |
Does it have layer upon layer of overlapping armor? No. What does it have instead? Damage, and things to help with damage (FE) and survivability (HF, Consume - consume also doing damage.) Some sets survive by making it harder to hit them. Fire survives by making sure nothing is *left* to hit them. (And Dark does via disorients and fears, self buffs and damage.)
Different concept all together.
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| To me that's a loser power that can be skipped for something that may keep your toon alive, rather then one that assumes defeat is inevitable. ;] |
Plus, quite frankly, I like sets that have people play them *as sets,* not sets that focus people on their Tier9. How many Stone tanks run around almost exclusively in Granite? How many Invulns are focused on Unstoppable (and expect the team to sit and wait post-crash?) (Note I'm not saying *good* tanks, but I do see this far too often to consider it "an occasional new player" or some such.)
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| I'd like to see RotP remodeled but it would have to be so neutered if it worked as OP suggested that it would be highly situational at best. |
The glimpse at Castle's "list" for FA, ca. 2006 (he hasn't really posted much on it since) and reaction to some comments.
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Well, I have several things on my 'Powers Issues' page which are specifically related to Fiery Aura. Many of the issues brought up in this thread are there. Basically, Fiery Aura is meant to be the most offensive protective set. Nothing anyone has said in this thread contradicts that statement, the closest are the comments that FE is not up often enough and that FA complements /Fire more than other secondaries. So, *that* aspect of the design goal is working. Is it working as well as it should be? The Fear aspect of Burn is definitely unpopular, and despite its having usefulness in some circumstances, it is detrimental in others. It's on my discussion list for that reason. Temperature Protection is unpopular. Interestingly, none of the passive powers in the various protection sets are terribly popular since players feel the return on investment is too low. As such, this is a global issue, not specific to FA and should be looked at as such. Are the holes in protection too large? Well, you can overcome them currently. The only practical way to do so is Acrobatics, and to a lesser extent Hover. As mentioned before, any change in this is going to be global, rather than FA specific. I cannot be any more specific at this time, however, except to say that, no 'Mayhem Mission'-type or Empowerment Station temp powers are not a solution I am looking at. Although, they can help. Healing Flames, I've commented on. Consume. It won't be autohit, unless we remove the damage component -- which we aren't going to do. |
Just something I thought would be neat given the suggestion: If you use RoTP while you're still alive, it damages you (how much depends on balancing and math and all that sort of stuff I know nothing about). Just seems fitting to me... if you use it to rez it heals you, but of course you have to be dead for that to happen. If you use it purely as an attack power, it damages you.
The Phoenix is burned to death by it's own flames before it revives, after all. Perhaps there should be a special bonus if you manage to kill yourself with it (instant revive and double up the damage?)
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There is a self res with WP, though. There's also one in what used to be considered the toughest of the Scrapper sets, Regen. (may still be, haven't kept up with Scrappers that much)|
Originally Posted by Acemace
On Tanks why isn't this power coupled with Invulnerability, Stone, WP, or Shields, but only with the squishier armors?
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EDIT: As far as the actual suggestion, though the only downside I can see to this is if someone fires off RotP and THEN gets defeated they can't pop back up immediately, and thus will actually face the loss of agro that's usually associated with tank death. This isn't to say that I'm against this, just something that would have to be considered by the player.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
I will approve of any change to these Tier 9th rez powers. They are illogical and stupid and should be changed into something that helps you survive in the first place.
I personally think Fire Aura Tier 9th should be a Clone of MOG while taking the Fear away from Burn and perhaps front loading its damage. That will allow FA ATs to sustain the alpha strike and give them 15 seconds to kill the enemy before it wears off.
Fire Aura is like Regen in that it has no defense so its Tier 9th should allow it to absorb the Alpha strike and Burn should be fixed so FA can deliver on the damage it promises. Immobilize protection should be moved to Plasma Shield accordingly. Consume should also have a faster recharge, not require accuracy and do no damage. That will fix FA for the most part.
I'm all for making RotP usable all the time an not just when dead. It doesn't really matter what happens as long as its effects when used while dead are kept the same.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
If you purposely die as a tank (barring "for laughs,") you shouldn't be a tank. And ROTP, since you seem to not want to see it as anything but "a rez," gives health back as well as stuns and damages the enemies around you - where's that aggro you're losing? Staggering around, right around you, if the damage portion didn't finish them off first.
Getting back into the fight, *right now,* with decent health/END and aggro that's not going anywhere because the enemies you had around you are stunned/dead? More effective than "TP and wakie, please." They're not meant to be anywhere near as offensive. Fire is an *offensive* set. Two damage powers, damage components to other powers (Consume, ROTP) and a damage *buff.* Totally different concept than "I don't get hit." Why - stepping out of Tanks for a moment - doesn't SR have a self heal, while Regen does (multiples, in fact, in one form or another?) Is Regen a weak set? Or is it just designed around a different theme? Edit: Or, to flip things around: "Invulnerability is obviously one of the weakest offensive sets. Hell, I can stand in the middle of enemies for hours and none of them will be killed by anything more tahn boredom. Even Stone has Mud Pots, at least." Is Invuln broken or weak... or does it just have a different design goal aimed toward a different playstyle? Should Invuln be changed to fit the Fire/ playstyle? Geko hasn't been on the game since 2005, so honestly - who cares. It's like saying "Rick Dakan felt this way." What his ideas were *then* have little relevance to the game *now,* other than how much aspirin Castle needs when dealing with powers (such as his stated dislike of Power Boost.) As for Castle calling it weaker and expecting it to be defeated because of it (as opposed to "being more offense oriented," which is not the same as "weaker,") all I can say is - give me a quote. Does it have layer upon layer of overlapping armor? No. What does it have instead? Damage, and things to help with damage (FE) and survivability (HF, Consume - consume also doing damage.) Some sets survive by making it harder to hit them. Fire survives by making sure nothing is *left* to hit them. (And Dark does via disorients and fears, self buffs and damage.) Different concept all together. I far prefer it over "I hope this fight doesn't last too long, or I'm not in the middle of another spawn when I crash," personally. What's your focus - your character or your *team?* Which does ROTP help keep alive? Plus, quite frankly, I like sets that have people play them *as sets,* not sets that focus people on their Tier9. How many Stone tanks run around almost exclusively in Granite? How many Invulns are focused on Unstoppable (and expect the team to sit and wait post-crash?) (Note I'm not saying *good* tanks, but I do see this far too often to consider it "an occasional new player" or some such.) I'd hate to see it remodeled so I had no way of coming back while protecting the team, or seeing it nerfed to hell and back. Fortunately, thanks to the cottage rule, it won't be. The glimpse at Castle's "list" for FA, ca. 2006 (he hasn't really posted much on it since) and reaction to some comments. (Bolds mine.) Since then - if my timeline is right - HF has been buffed, Temperature protection has been given a recharge debuff resistance/slow resistance, and /we've been given IOs to play with as well. (note the "cannot be more specific at this time" - that time being 07/2006, Inventions being introduced the following year.) He also has commented on FE (the extra damage that goes with /fire is a bonus, an "oh cool," and wouldn't be changed,) and as far as ROTP - again, two words, cottage rule. They won't change the basis of a power. (Which, if I'm reading other comments correctly, this sort of change would lead to.) |
You know as well as me Memphis that Fire Aura's promise of surviviability by doing greater damage is an outright, ridiculously obvious lie. It is Bullcrap. Other armors have a damage aura like Blazing Aura. Fiery Embrace is the only real power that is unique and increases damage. Even then its effects do not last very long and arent as potent unless you are Fire Melee. Consume's recharge is way too long so it feels like you are popping an occasional Blue every now and then rather than having a good endurance power like Power Sink. Burn would be the great power in the set like Shield's Shield Charge but it is horribly broken from a overkill nerf that continues to exist out of incomptent neglect. Even as new, powerful sets are being made, FA still is left to rot in inferiority, outclassed in every category including damage by the more powerful Shield set.
Rise of the Phoenix belongs in this current pathetic set because it is a testament to how many times a player will die on a FA when compared to other armors. Rise of the Phoenix as a rez has no place in a hypothetical new Fire Aura that mitigates damage effectively either by providing more damage or more surviviblity unless it wasnt a Tier 9th because it would be useless.
Fire Aura has been weak for years now. It is time progress is made but people need to let go of these obsolete philosophies which support ROTP because it contradicts the strengthening of Fire Aura's mitigation since the Tier 9 needs you to die first.
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Which all gets wasted by the incredible amount of time needed to retoggle all the armors that fire needs to survive.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
...the incredibly powerful untouchable benefit.
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Actually, considering how much I play it, I know no such thing. |
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
You know as well as me Memphis that Fire Aura's promise of surviviability by doing greater damage is an outright, ridiculously obvious lie.
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Perhaps you just don't do well with the set?
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| . Consume's recharge is way too long so it feels like you are popping an occasional Blue every now and then rather than having a good endurance power like Power Sink. |
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| Burn would be the great power in the set like Shield's Shield Charge but it is horribly broken from a overkill nerf that continues to exist out of incomptent neglect. |
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| Rise of the Phoenix belongs in this current pathetic set because it is a testament to how many times a player will die on a FA when compared to other armors. |
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| Fire Aura has been weak for years now. It is time progress is made but people need to let go of these obsolete philosophies which support ROTP because it contradicts the strengthening of Fire Aura's mitigation since the Tier 9 needs you to die first. |
You don't like that? Don't play the set.
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... as everything else is either dead or stumbling around. Doesn't take that long to retoggle *two* armors.
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Originally Posted by PumBumbler
Which all gets wasted by the incredible amount of time needed to retoggle all the armors that fire needs to survive.
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I see retoggling 2 Armors, 1 Damage Aura, Tough, Combat Jumping and Acrobatics as the most my Fire Tank ever did. It's been a while, but I think I got most of that done in that time, and I'm not sure I had Tough.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
... as everything else is either dead or stumbling around. Doesn't take that long to retoggle *two* armors.
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Nowadays, I could drop Acrobatics for an IO.
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You seem either delusional or perhaps you havent played enough other sets to notice a difference which is strange considering your experience and time here. And yeah the flaws in FA have existed for so long which to me is undeniable evidence that the devs havent played the set recently and extensively or simply do not see a flaw in FA or just dont care to fix it, all of which would make them incompetent in this case considering all the complaints about the set that have existed for the last 4 years. Forgiveable but still the reply was warranted. At least they get other things right.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Actually, considering how much I play it, I know no such thing.
Perhaps you just don't do well with the set? Doesn't seem to be a problem to me. Recharges often enough, and I don't have to hope one's dropped/I have a second to make one/ etc. And how many blues do damage? (There's that "Offensive - Do damage" thing again.) While I agree burn needs changing, I'm not so whiny as to start throwing around accusations of incompetence. If you're having problems playing the set, perhaps you should see assistance with it. It's rarely the car's fault if the driver crashes. It is an *offensive* set, per the developers. I don't need a "One with the shield," it does nothing for me. ROTP lets me get back up *right now,* continue tanking - while damaging the enemy and stunning them, keeping them from doing anything to the rest of my team, on the *rare* occasions it's needed. You don't like that? Don't play the set. |
Whatever , have fun trying to build a house on corrupt foundations. I will continue advocating an improvement while you can keep telling people like myself to "Play something else because I like to be less effective than other characters."
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Or maybe I don't try to play FA like Invuln, WP or Stone. Similarly, I don't try to play Stone (or any other set) like Fire - not even the "closest" to it, Dark (which is more of a control-y tank and busy in toggle management.) I've experience with multiple sets, Tank, Scrapper, and Brute (I'd add Stalker where they share sets, but those get adjusted far more, not least to fit in Hide.) |
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
You seem either delusional or perhaps you havent played enough other sets to notice a difference. Strange considering your experience and time here. And yeah the flaws in FA have existed for so long which to me is undeniable evidence that the devs havent played the set recently and extensively or simply do not see a flaw in FA, both of which would make them incompetent in this case. Forgiveable but still.
Whatever , have fun trying to build a house on corrupt foundations. I will continue advocating an improvement while can keep telling people like myself to "Play something else because I like to suck." |
But, hey, just go around complaining it isn't like Stone, Ice, etc, despite those being designed for a completely different purpose, and call anyone disagreeing delusional and the direct statement of what it's designed for a lie. Of course, if you care to read, I said "Perhaps you don't do well with the set." That's far different from "you suck." For example, I don't do well with Illusion. I don't like the set. It's not a "control" set for me - direct control. So after giving it a shot or two (full set) I decided it wasn't for me. "Perhaps you don't do well with the set" means precisely that. Fire calls for a different playstyle than other tanks. If that playstyle's not for you, don't play it. Seems pretty straightforward. But hey, go ahead and take it as an insult instead of an observation.
The only thing that ever had my Fire tank worried was recharge debuffs, and that's been adjusted (plus, optionally, you can pick up an IO for it to reinforce that.) And the only thing I see that should be adjusted is Burn, which - since some do use it for mitigation - should probably have a slow added, a la hot feet.
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Honestly, I like the range of options tanks have for primaries. From heavy defense/resist (invuln, ice, stone) all the way to heavy offense (comparitively - aka fire,) a touch of control (Dark,) and we've been getting more of the range in between filled in (Shield and Elec, for instance.) And yes, I'm *glad* not every set plays the same. I'd have far fewer tanks if they did. (Same's true for the other ATs, too.)
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I do well with any set but my skill is irrelevant. Even if I sucked , I would suck a lot more on a FA than on a Regen, Invul, Shield, WP, Elec, Stone, SR , Ice. I like the concept of Fire Aura trading durability for more damage but you fail to realize it doesnt work here and the concept fails. FA must be revisted and revolutionized for the concept to be a reality.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Or maybe I don't try to play FA like Invuln, WP or Stone. Similarly, I don't try to play Stone (or any other set) like Fire - not even the "closest" to it, Dark (which is more of a control-y tank and busy in toggle management.) I've experience with multiple sets, Tank, Scrapper, and Brute (I'd add Stalker where they share sets, but those get adjusted far more, not least to fit in Hide.)
But, hey, just go around complaining it isn't like Stone, Ice, etc, despite those being designed for a completely different purpose, and call anyone disagreeing delusional and the direct statement of what it's designed for a lie. Of course, if you care to read, I said "Perhaps you don't do well with the set." That's far different from "you suck." For example, I don't do well with Illusion. I don't like the set. It's not a "control" set for me - direct control. So after giving it a shot or two (full set) I decided it wasn't for me. "Perhaps you don't do well with the set" means precisely that. Fire calls for a different playstyle than other tanks. If that playstyle's not for you, don't play it. Seems pretty straightforward. But hey, go ahead and take it as an insult instead of an observation. The only thing that ever had my Fire tank worried was recharge debuffs, and that's been adjusted (plus, optionally, you can pick up an IO for it to reinforce that.) And the only thing I see that should be adjusted is Burn, which - since some do use it for mitigation - should probably have a slow added, a la hot feet. Edit: Honestly, I like the range of options tanks have for primaries. From heavy defense/resist (invuln, ice, stone) all the way to heavy offense (comparitively - aka fire,) a touch of control (Dark,) and we've been getting more of the range in between filled in (Shield and Elec, for instance.) And yes, I'm *glad* not every set plays the same. I'd have far fewer tanks if they did. (Same's true for the other ATs, too.) |
I want you to show everyone this damage you say FA gives you in return for no defense, no good immobile and kb protection, a Endurance recovery with an absurd 180 sec recharge, no exotic resistance/buff like Confuse resist or Perception bonus and no Tier 9th that helps your survivability in some way. Where does it come from ? Blazing Aura ? Wait I think I know some of its cousins , Lightning Field, Mud Pots, Iciciles, Death Shroud. What about Burn? Oh wait, mobs escape the patch after 2 ticks of damage? WAIT what did some people say? Get an immobile ? Oh ok so Fire Aura is only the damage king when you have an immobile or a controller with you , I see. Silly me. I think they have some power out there called Shield Charge that works all the time.
FE , you got me there. It is such a worthy power . So much damage in return for zero defense and bad mez protection. Wait a min, mobs still hit you after 10 seconds ? Oh damn.
Lucky I got a rez lol
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I "Fail to realize it doesn't work here" because with my multiple Fire tanks (and scrappers, now,) it has been working just fine. |
Originally Posted by New_Dark_Age
I do well with any set but my skill is irrelevant. Even if I sucked , I would suck a lot more on a FA than on a Regen, Invul, Shield, WP, Elec, Stone, SR , Ice. I like the concept of Fire Aura trading durability for more damage but you fail to realize it doesnt work here and the concept fails. FA must be revisted and revolutionized for the concept to be a reality.
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| I want you to show everyone this damage you say FA gives you in return for no defense, |
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| no immobile |
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| and kb protection, a Endurance recovery with an absurd 180 sec recharge, |
Might want to talk to dark and the VEATs about that lack of immob protection in melee, as well. Fire isn't alone in that.
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| and no Tier 9th that helps your survivability in some way. |
As for where the damage is coming from?
- Blazing Aura
- Consume
- FE (a build up other sets don't have)
- Burn
- ROTP, if needed
- and the entire secondary. Which *is* buffed by FE, even if it's not /fire. Or did you forget that?
Yes, other sets have "a damage aura." Grabbing the average damage numbers @50 in game, no enhancements -
Fire - 9.79
Dark, Elec, Ice, Stone - 8.01
Inv, WP, Shield - no damage aura.
Other damage sources from the primary -
Shield - 141, Shield Charge, KD
Dark - Soul transfer -44.49 damage, stun.
Fire - 186.8 - Burn
17.78 - Consume
222 (3 ticks of 111, but being "average," of course...) ROTP
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| FE , you got me there. It is such a worthy power . So much damage in return for zero defense and bad mez protection. |
Sounds better than "Must be in contact with ground" (Elec, Grounded, KB and Immob protection,) for instance. (Yes, I know Elec's Grounded is an auto power. Where's the payoff for "Don't fly, don't get caught in someone's Group Fly, etc?")
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| Wait a min, mobs still hit you after 10 seconds ? Oh damn. |
Of course, you don't actually want to discuss anything here, which you're making more and more obvious. Learn the set for the set itself, not for "how it isn't (insert set here.)"
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Are you seriously factoring in the damage from Consume and the Immobile protection from Burn? OMG lol maybe people should start slotting Consume for damage instead of accuracy/recharge/endmod. I am sure that is productive lol|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I "Fail to realize it doesn't work here" because with my multiple Fire tanks (and scrappers, now,) it has been working just fine.
Funny, no defense... in a resistance based set. Imagine that... Burn Do you burn through your END that fast? Then your build has problems. And have you considered slotting for recharge? It'll help a great deal. Oh, btw - yet another source of damage, here. Might want to talk to dark and the VEATs about that lack of immob protection in melee, as well. Fire isn't alone in that. ... which lets me get back in the action *immediately* on the rare occasions I die, doing damage, stunning the enemy... you sound, quite frankly, like no - you *don't* know the Fire set, haven't bothered paying attention to anything but how it's not, say, Ice. If I'm down, I'm back in the action *now,* my team (you know, those other strange people on the screen you can't attack) is still safe, and I'm still going without having to go "Wait, about to crash, running away!" As for where the damage is coming from? - Blazing Aura - Consume - FE (a build up other sets don't have) - Burn - ROTP, if needed - and the entire secondary. Which *is* buffed by FE, even if it's not /fire. Or did you forget that? Yes, other sets have "a damage aura." Grabbing the average damage numbers @50 in game, no enhancements - Fire - 9.79 Dark, Elec, Ice, Stone - 8.01 Inv, WP, Shield - no damage aura. Other damage sources from the primary - Shield - 141, Shield Charge, KD Dark - Soul transfer -44.49 damage, stun. Fire - 186.8 - Burn 17.78 - Consume 222 (3 ticks of 111, but being "average," of course...) ROTP You're showing more and more that you dont' know what you're talking about. Bad Mez protection? Same 12.98@50 to common mezzes as most other tanks, doesn't require another toggle to run, isn't a click (that you must slot for recharge so it overlaps and gives you some -recharge protection, barring immob) ... Which "bad mez protection" is this? Don't like burn, grab an IO, slot a set, take CJ, you've got other options. Take TP, Stone tanks do it all the time. Can't immobilize something that doesn't actually move. Sounds better than "Must be in contact with ground" (Elec, Grounded, KB and Immob protection,) for instance. (Yes, I know Elec's Grounded is an auto power. Where's the payoff for "Don't fly, don't get caught in someone's Group Fly, etc?") Funny how nobody has said a power like build up is a defensive power. Go ahead, keep setting up ridiculous little strawmen. I'll help - "Hey, look, Brawl doesn't add to my defense either! Oh damn!" Yet, what you choose to ignore, FE boosts *all* damage for 10 seconds, and all fire damage by 100% for 20. Of course, you don't actually want to discuss anything here, which you're making more and more obvious. Learn the set for the set itself, not for "how it isn't (insert set here.)" |
Wait it gets worse , you are factoring the damage from Burn when it causes mobs to scatter and ROTP when you have to die to use it. God damn playa, you go on with your bad self.
You actually think Fire has good mez protection as well ? Compare it to WP or Shields(considering it is a more offensive set than FA)
It is like you are arguing technicality and I am arguing reality. You are like a new commander who judges things because they look good on paper while I am the experienced veteran who is trying to tell you how it really works on the field.
YOU: Burn will cause a lot of damage to mobs.
ME: Sir you know the mobs are just going to run away when you activate it ?
Dear god Technicality < Reality
Is this why nothing ever gets done with FA ? Devs just look at this paper crap to make decisions on balance? Holy hell !
Pretty simple really make it useable without dying but still useable when you die. It could be the shield charge of fire aura only PBAOE instead of TP attack. It may make fire feel like the offensive armor that it should instead of shield outshining it in everyway. What do you guys think?