I would love to see a bare knuckles type attack, like boxing taken to a fullfledged AT power Set. While SS is nice it really does not fit a a Scrapper.
I would love to have a SS/Regen scrapper or brute.
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It was slightly overpowered at first, but not game-breakingly so. The problem was that the recharge was too fast and it was doing way too much damage at full fury. |
Originally Posted by Chaos_String
Just a guess, but perhaps they believed that fast-animating attacks with built-in endurance reduction would be too good at generating fury.
If that was the objection, then they were half right: claws is outstanding at generating fury, but it turns out it isn't game-breaking. |
They toned it down slightly very shortly after the set came out for brutes. I remember one-shotting a group of even cons (all with full health) at level 8 with unslotted Spin. It was THAT good.
It's still a powerful set, but they lowered the damage a touch and increased the recharge slightly to put it more in line with other brute sets.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I believe I wasn't one of those people. I was wrong. Mea culpa.|
Originally Posted by Werner
I believe I was one of those people. I was wrong. Mea culpa.
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Would love to see a headbutt type of animation added to SS...
would probably the only power I'd use 
OK maybe along with a flying knee and a superman punch... gonna want an attack chain ...
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I do want the name "Super Strength". I know, it's nit-picky. But I'd like it.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
If they made all the animation options of Super Strength available to Martial Arts, and put Hurl in Body Mastery (thusly making the concept possible)...people would still say they want Super Strength (they just couldn't keep saying "for concept" then).
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Also, I want the feel of the set. I want the screen shaking on the hits, the spherical shockwave VFX, and the "POW" and "BOOM" sound effects. I also think Foot Stomp's radius is an important part of that feel-- I'll take a reduction in damage and/or lower chance for KD, but I want the radius because it just wouldn't feel the same to stomp the ground, have the screen shake, and only have it affect the people standing right next to you.
I don't need double stacked Rage, or any other aspects that one might consider to be overpowered on a Scrapper.
I want Super Strength Scrappers not because I think it would perform better than other Scrapper sets, but because I want the superhuman strength concept, delivered as well as the set is for other ATs, on a Hero whose primary role is dealing damage. I wanted Super Strength Scrappers back in CoH Beta, when Super Strength was one of the worst Melee sets (when KoB did irrelevant damage, Rage stunned you for the crash, and Foot Stomp was KB instead of KD). So, it's not about the effectiveness.
I'm looking forward to Hero Brutes, but I'd also like Super Strength Scrappers because while Brutes are really exciting, the non-stop pace Fury inspires can be a little tiring. I'd like to have the option of a Scrap (from Dynamo 5) type hero who has Super Strength as her big thing, and toughness being second, without the need to build power up over time.
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You'd be one of the few to play a set that is considered bottom of the barrel. Thusly the exception to the rule.
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Originally Posted by Liquid
I do want the name "Super Strength". I know, it's nit-picky. But I'd like it.
Also, I want the feel of the set. I want the screen shaking on the hits, the spherical shockwave VFX, and the "POW" and "BOOM" sound effects. I also think Foot Stomp's radius is an important part of that feel-- I'll take a reduction in damage and/or lower chance for KD, but I want the radius because it just wouldn't feel the same to stomp the ground, have the screen shake, and only have it affect the people standing right next to you. I don't need double stacked Rage, or any other aspects that one might consider to be overpowered on a Scrapper. I want Super Strength Scrappers not because I think it would perform better than other Scrapper sets, but because I want the superhuman strength concept, delivered as well as the set is for other ATs, on a Hero whose primary role is dealing damage. I wanted Super Strength Scrappers back in CoH Beta, when Super Strength was one of the worst Melee sets (when KoB did irrelevant damage, Rage stunned you for the crash, and Foot Stomp was KB instead of KD). So, it's not about the effectiveness. I'm looking forward to Hero Brutes, but I'd also like Super Strength Scrappers because while Brutes are really exciting, the non-stop pace Fury inspires can be a little tiring. I'd like to have the option of a Scrap (from Dynamo 5) type hero who has Super Strength as her big thing, and toughness being second, without the need to build power up over time. |
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Citation needed. I also fail to see how you got to there from Liquid's post.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
You'd be one of the few to play a set that is considered bottom of the barrel. Thusly the exception to the rule.
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Be well, people of CoH.
Hi, I'm one of those people that would play it on a Scrapper because of concept. Because of the particle effects, because of the animations, because of the sounds, because it is Super Strenghth and that is a concept I have for many characters that are waiting to be made.
Nice to meet you. 
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Quote:
Energy Melee.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Citation needed. I also fail to see how you got to there from Liquid's post.
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Its really the AoE of Claws that is too high, relative to what balance dictates, due to a glitch in the way the Claws adjustment was applied to AoE attacks.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It was slightly overpowered at first, but not game-breakingly so. The problem was that the recharge was too fast and it was doing way too much damage at full fury.
They toned it down slightly very shortly after the set came out for brutes. I remember one-shotting a group of even cons (all with full health) at level 8 with unslotted Spin. It was THAT good. It's still a powerful set, but they lowered the damage a touch and increased the recharge slightly to put it more in line with other brute sets. |
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This thread has now made me laugh.
All this talk about "let the player choose if it fits the concept"
Which I'm not against Scrappers having a super strength set, like I said, I just think the scrapper version shouldn't look like you have the strength of The Hulk.
But that aside..."let us decide if it fits the concept", when some of the players saying that, are also against letting Scrappers get a dual pistol/gun fu set. o.O
Can't I decide if a gun fu set fits my concept of a scrapper (and it does )?
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Pistols don't fit the devs' concept for scrappers. They've stated it will never happen. SS may or may not. When/if it gets ported to scrappers, we'll know.
Be well, people of CoH.
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But my point wasn't what the devs think (if I recall at one point a dev said yes to Dual Pistol scrappers, then went back later and said no). My point was of what other players/posters have said. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Pistols don't fit the devs' concept for scrappers. They've stated it will never happen. SS may or may not. When/if it gets ported to scrappers, we'll know.
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That said. Because of what the devs currently say, I've actually stopped requesting Dual Pistols for Scrappers.
Now I just request Assault (or Ranged)/Defense AT.
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It's a different argument. The player split over pistols is about range not style. Some people claim pistols are long ranged weapons only, and some claim that they can be and are used in close quarter combat.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
This thread has now made me laugh.
All this talk about "let the player choose if it fits the concept" Which I'm not against Scrappers having a super strength set, like I said, I just think the scrapper version shouldn't look like you have the strength of The Hulk. But that aside..."let us decide if it fits the concept", when some of the players saying that, are also against letting Scrappers get a dual pistol/gun fu set. o.O Can't I decide if a gun fu set fits my concept of a scrapper (and it does )? |
A melee power, like super strength, fits with a toon that is specifically stated to be a melee at.
Pistols, when used as they are designed (lol), are ranged weapons, and do not fit with a melee at. However, I'll give you this, the devs, were consistently inconsistent here, by giving claws (still not sure how claws has ranged attacks...) and spines ranged attacks, but the sets are still primarily melee. If the devs designed a pistol set where only 2 or 3 of the attacks were short ranged attacks, and the rest were melee pistol butt attacks, you'd have an argument for it fitting with scrappers.
I'm certainly not arguing that scrappers should have access to all powersets. Scrappers should not be able to get fire blast or empathy, lol. I'm arguing they should have access to THE iconic melee super power - super strength, because scrappers are supposed to be the best hero melee at.
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Good!|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Which I'm not against Scrappers having a super strength set
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Originally Posted by BrandX
I just think the scrapper version shouldn't look like you have the strength of The Hulk.
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Lets be clear here, you say the "Scrapper version shouldn't look like", as in look like visually, or as in the numbers aspect? The former should stay intact, but the latter should be left to the developers and not player squabbling.
There is only one thing I expect out of the numbers: it will do more damage than the Tanker counterpart. That's pretty much a "no duh," since damage is our primary, not our secondary.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
*sigh* I think the point of my comment was missed.
I understand that people like to play the set with the best numbers. People just kept saying, they wanted it for concept. I was merely saying, it wasn't purely for concept. If they made all the animation options of Super Strength available to Martial Arts, and put Hurl in Body Mastery (thusly making the concept possible)...people would still say they want Super Strength (they just couldn't keep saying "for concept" then). Next, going by Billz work-up...Scrapper Super Strength would not only give better ST DPS (by a few points), but have better AOE. |
I apologize for making you sigh, lol.
To me, it seemed like you were saying people wanted ss ONLY for the numbers, and that's not true. It's the whole package, the numbers, how it plays, how it looks. Thats why repackaging MA doesn't work.
And you are correct, scrapper SS at lvl 50 would outdamage MA in both single target and aoe, just as FM and claws would outdamage SS. There are plenty of sets that are imbalanced like this in the scrapper primaries already, and there are similar imbalances in the tanker and brute power set choices.
So to clarify your point, you don't want to let scrappers, the hero side melee specialist, have access to the iconic melee super power, SS? Clearly, SS is a superior powerset to MA, and it's OK for tanks (who melee as a secondary) to have SS, but not for scrappers - they should get a weaker version, despite the fact they are primarily a melee attack toon?
I'm seeing your 'points', I just don't agree with them.
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As a side comment, that's what I think most people were requesting when they wanted Pistol Melee (though not just pistol butt attacks, but maybe one or two point blank shots and/or a kick or two). I'd be totally against Scrappers getting a Blaster-range set.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
If the devs designed a pistol set where only 2 or 3 of the attacks were short ranged attacks, and the rest were melee pistol butt attacks, you'd have an argument for it fitting with scrappers.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Good!
Wait what? So you are not against Scrappers getting Super Strength, but you would want them to change it to look something other than Super Strength? Lets be clear here, you say the "Scrapper version shouldn't look like", as in look like visually, or as in the numbers aspect? The former should stay intact, but the latter should be left to the developers and not player squabbling. There is only one thing I expect out of the numbers: it will do more damage than the Tanker counterpart. That's pretty much a "no duh," since damage is our primary, not our secondary. |
If the devs managed to port fire melee over, they can port SS over with some tweaks.
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Well, no one in CoX has the strength of the Hulk, SS or not. But an example of a comic book character with Super Strength more or less as CoX defines is, without commensurate Invulnerability (making him impossible to be classified as a Tanker) would be Sunspot (or at least the original version of Sunspot) in the Marvel Universe. His lack of general invulnerability, plus his clear use of feats of super strength in combat, suggests its possible to have a brute-force scrapper in the genre. Its just unusual, not concept-busting.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
Which I'm not against Scrappers having a super strength set, like I said, I just think the scrapper version shouldn't look like you have the strength of The Hulk.
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Quote:
Aye.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
If the devs managed to port fire melee over, they can port SS over with some tweaks.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bAss_ackwards
Good!
Wait what? So you are not against Scrappers getting Super Strength, but you would want them to change it to look something other than Super Strength? Lets be clear here, you say the "Scrapper version shouldn't look like", as in look like visually, or as in the numbers aspect? The former should stay intact, but the latter should be left to the developers and not player squabbling. There is only one thing I expect out of the numbers: it will do more damage than the Tanker counterpart. That's pretty much a "no duh," since damage is our primary, not our secondary. |
I meant visually. :P
I never said there weren't scrapper like superheroes with superstrength.
The scrapper style superstrengthers in comics, don't rip chunks of concrete out of the ground...they don't clap their hands together to cause a massive shockwave...they don't cause mini earthquakes.
They hit hard and lift heavy objects, even toss said objects around.
That's the difference I see between a scrapper with super strength and a tanker/brute. Comicbook wise, with CoH ATs.
Both would also have knockback...but put that in Super Strength, and people would just complain. :P
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Quote:
That's exactly what I want.|
Originally Posted by Liquid
As a side comment, that's what I think most people were requesting when they wanted Pistol Melee (though not just pistol butt attacks, but maybe one or two point blank shots and/or a kick or two). I'd be totally against Scrappers getting a Blaster-range set.
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I came up with a set idea using dual pistols, and it had a total of 3 ranged attacks (which is just one more than Claws and Spines...and one of the true ranged attacks was a cone, like Shockwave and Throw Spines).
The rest were confront, build up, and melee attacks using a mixture of martial arts and pistols.
I can't remember how I set up all the attacks...but one was alot like Jump Kick. The scrapper would roll on the ground, come up with a kick that knocked the target up, and as they flew up, the scrapper shot them more.
It's uses the pistols, but keeps the attack melee.
The other attacks would be some akin to that.Like has been mentioned before, there's just some of us who want a Dual Pistol/Defense set toon. That's what our concepts would be. >.> Maybe that's what the Devs should do...a new Epic AT with GR...Dual Pistols/Defense Set, you're stuck with DP, but you can choose one of the defense sets.
Seeing as how Widows and Crabs are pretty much that, I don't see why it would be overpowered.
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Quote:
Well then, I am glad that the game does not adhere to your strict comic book code. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I meant visually. :P
I never said there weren't scrapper like superheroes with superstrength. The scrapper style superstrengthers in comics, don't rip chunks of concrete out of the ground...they don't clap their hands together to cause a massive shockwave...they don't cause mini earthquakes. They hit hard and lift heavy objects, even toss said objects around. That's the difference I see between a scrapper with super strength and a tanker/brute. Comicbook wise, with CoH ATs. Both would also have knockback...but put that in Super Strength, and people would just complain. :P |
"The Scrapper is a fierce melee combatant. In hand to hand, no other hero can compare."
There is no talk of finesse there. The only thing the description says later on is that Scrappers are "countered by a total lack of long distance attacks," which was broken on day one of retail by Claws and Spines. No matter what melee method, a Scrapper will use it and they will be the strongest of it on Hero side. That's just how they are in this universe.
I also support a partial gun attacks/partial martial arts melee Dual Pistol set for Scrappers. It wouldn't be any different from Claws and Spines anyways.
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