Yes then it won't kill LTs alone but that is what other attacks are used for. Throw Spines, Spine Burst, and Build up won't kill +2 LTs in one chain either.
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Dark/Shield Build Thread
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Well, if you play an elec/shield with a buttload of recharge, the two nukes are pretty consistent. If you have them both on a 30sec timer (not too hard), you get a nuke every 15 seconds. That's a short enough amount of time that one will be up every time you move to the next mob. |
Originally Posted by Silas
I think you're spot on about the playstyle thing. Spines/Fire and Spines/dark have long been lauded as the best scrapper farming builds and I've seen them do amazing things, I just couldn't get into one myself.
The way I play my spines/regen I'm bouncing around all the time to make the most of Throw Spines, so for me the added damage aura would be largely wasted. But as you say, the differences (whatever they may be) are fairly small (unlike say fire/kin vs other controller builds for farming) and so for most people it comes down to what they like to play. That said, I would reiterate that in terms of "best", in my experience consistent damage is better than spikes for farming. Firekins don't nuke nothin'  |
Using this strategy you can nuke, fireball, chain induction/thunderstrike any leftovers.
However, I agree that fire is much better when farming with bosses.
I agree, If I were to ever use an elec/shield for farming I would probably only use one nuke per mob. That way your damage spikes are more consistent rather than only using them every 30 seconds or so. It all comes down to playstyle and preference.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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If your AoEs recharge in 6s, sure. If they recharge in 13 and 26 (Fireball, Nukes) then no, you're not wasting any time because you take advantage of the recharge times to move and position things.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Dragging mobs behind you is faffing about because unless you move really slowly, you're wasting time waiting for them to catch up before you unload your AoEs.
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| While I love the FFB proc, Thunderstrike has a tiny radius. If you're getting it to proc every time you're doing a lot more positioning than someone has to do to get the most out of FSC or Footstomp. |
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| Now, if you can alternate LR and SC and use something like Fireball to finish most of them off then it might be a different matter. But if you're using both at once and dragging stuff around, you could definitely be going faster. |
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The FF+ rech proc won't go off everytime. It goes off frequently though, like every 2 or 3 times. This is from playing a SS/Fire Brute where Foot Stomp hits its target cap pretty much everytime. Granted, I've had the proc go off 3 or 4 times in a row, but that's usually not the case.
As for using Fireball, I think Silas is saying that it would probably better to use one nuke on a mob and finish them off with aditional AoE's such as fireball, then nuke the next mob and so on. Instead of using SD and LR on one mob.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
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But throw spines is easily recharged to be up twice within a build up cycle.|
Originally Posted by Santorican
Yes then it won't kill LTs alone but that is what other attacks are used for. Throw Spines, Spine Burst, and Build up won't kill +2 LTs in one chain either.
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To what someone alluded to before as well, the spine/fire is better than the spine regen for several, even though not terribly large qualities. The damage aura yes, does come in play when you go in for spine burst, same way you will pick up quills. Fire armor also gets fiery embrace, sure not terribly often, just is one thing it has over it is all, same with consume, small, but additional. The self rez is also much better when farming as well if you pick it up. The other big thing is the resists in fire armor, helping you fight the inital mob hits spike damage. Mixed with the KD of energy torrent in the cycle its enough to keep you alive when most of the enemies are dead and you use your once per mob healing flames which is pretty much all you'd need it for.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer
I agree, If I were to ever use an elec/shield for farming I would probably only use one nuke per mob. That way your damage spikes are more consistent rather than only using them every 30 seconds or so. It all comes down to playstyle and preference.
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The problem with that, is that you have one sitting, wasting its recharge which is the big problem, as the other aoes in elec aren't as terrific. Leaving a lot of wasted recharge times on your two big main attacks.
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Originally Posted by DaveMebs
Well, if you play an elec/shield with a buttload of recharge, the two nukes are pretty consistent. If you have them both on a 30sec timer (not too hard), you get a nuke every 15 seconds. That's a short enough amount of time that one will be up every time you move to the next mob.
Using this strategy you can nuke, fireball, chain induction/thunderstrike any leftovers. However, I agree that fire is much better when farming with bosses. |
One boss yes, but actually with the IOd build for elec melee if two bosses are close enough the elec can pull ahead with chain induction + jacob's ladder hitting both bosses. One boss its no contest, but two more in close proximity the elec is very good even when it might not seem like it.
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t Aliana, That is exactly my point. If you're dragging stuff around to take advantage of the recharge times you are limited by the recharge times. You can be far faster around a map bound by a 5-7second recharge (FSC, Footstomp) than 2 26 second ones.
If you're dragging stuff around and waiting to use your 2 big hitters, you're wasting time. I'm not debating the ability of Elec/SD to obliterate spawns. I'm just saying, in the context of a farm (what the OP was asking about) a faster recharge, lower damage AoE is the best option.
t Windenergy21, While it is true that you're technically wasting the recharge if the power is up and you're saving it for the next spawn, if I was using the Elec/SD combo I would rather use one nuke each spawn and use other stuff (Fireball/Thunderstrike/whatever) to finish them off.
That would give you much higher constant damage (more competetive with Footstomp/FSC) as well as not being huge overkill on the minions/lts. You're also much less restricted by the recharges, as you're only waiting about 13 seconds between nukes rather than the full 26. Killing a spawn every 15-20 seconds (nuke + clean-up) is much, much better than one spawn every 30.
Edit: aaaand all this talking about it is making me want an elec/sd. Noooooo
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What I'm saying is that it's not a limitation, it's an advantage.|
Originally Posted by Silas
Aliana, That is exactly my point. If you're dragging stuff around to take advantage of the recharge times you are limited by the recharge times. You can be far faster around a map bound by a 5-7second recharge (FSC, Footstomp) than 2 26 second ones.
If you're dragging stuff around and waiting to use your 2 big hitters, you're wasting time. I'm not debating the ability of Elec/SD to obliterate spawns. I'm just saying, in the context of a farm (what the OP was asking about) a faster recharge, lower damage AoE is the best option. |
While the things are recharging you clump together mobs past your aggro caps, which means you hit them all and them some. You leverage your AoEs better this way.
And as I pointed out, you destroy TWO spawns every 26 seconds, not one. TWO. Unless you're destroying single spawns in considerably less than 13 (including travel) the shorter recharge of footstomp/FSC is not such a great advantage. Or in other words, you have to wipe the spawn in a single cycle of your AoEs, which I really don't see happening in +3/x8 - the most profitable setting according to Cat's Hour Challenge.
The advantage of having 25+ mobs around you and using both nukes are: both LR and SC are fueled by Build-up, you have the cap of AAO buffing you with both attacks, and you always hit the maximum number of targets - after the first cast the minions that got hit die, freeing up "slots" for you to hit things with the second cast, which kills the wounded lieutenants and whatever minion it happened to hit too. Huge spike damage like that also prevents the low-on-health annoyances that you may not be able to stop with a more constant damage output, tier 9s/Dull Pain/Healing Flames/Nemesis' variety of annoyances/etc. You can still (and you should) throw fireballs at the mobs that are coming towards you while the nukes recharge. And if you didn't drag the aggro cap towards the second spawn, you'll aggro a few of that second spawn's mobs, so you TS them too.
Nuking spawns from orbit by pairs has considerable advantages.
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| Edit: aaaand all this talking about it is making me want an elec/sd. Noooooo |
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I get what you mean now. The main villain farming map is the TV map with the wrecked city full of Nems. On that map there are fairly large spaces between spawns so dragging mobs between them would take time.
I guess on smaller heroside maps (steel canyon one for instance, that one is infamous for double aggro because of clumped spawns) its not a big deal. Having AAO maxed out is certainly a huge advantage for scrappers.
As for making an Elec/SD, I've managed to restrain myself thus far because while my resources are fairly sizeable villainside, I'm pretty broke heroside so I wouldn't be able to pimp it out as I'd like. And I wouldn't make an Elec/SD brute because the combo is just so, so much better on scrappers 
Maybe closer to when GR comes out...
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Well with my build I didn't go blaze, so that makes a difference I suppose. Without fireball at least I have noticed its usually faster to nukes each spawn with both. Fireball may be enough to push over alternating, but i like my build not needing tough/weave and having all the elec attacks.
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Originally Posted by Silas
t Windenergy21, While it is true that you're technically wasting the recharge if the power is up and you're saving it for the next spawn, if I was using the Elec/SD combo I would rather use one nuke each spawn and use other stuff (Fireball/Thunderstrike/whatever) to finish them off.
That would give you much higher constant damage (more competetive with Footstomp/FSC) as well as not being huge overkill on the minions/lts. You're also much less restricted by the recharges, as you're only waiting about 13 seconds between nukes rather than the full 26. Killing a spawn every 15-20 seconds (nuke + clean-up) is much, much better than one spawn every 30. Edit: aaaand all this talking about it is making me want an elec/sd. Noooooo |
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DO IT! you know you want to! Its worth it, besides, a simple elec/shield you can still farm yourself even if on only +1s its still worth it and you can build up your cash fast. Heck even duoing with a friend you'll be able to do a lot.
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Originally Posted by Silas
I get what you mean now. The main villain farming map is the TV map with the wrecked city full of Nems. On that map there are fairly large spaces between spawns so dragging mobs between them would take time.
I guess on smaller heroside maps (steel canyon one for instance, that one is infamous for double aggro because of clumped spawns) its not a big deal. Having AAO maxed out is certainly a huge advantage for scrappers. As for making an Elec/SD, I've managed to restrain myself thus far because while my resources are fairly sizeable villainside, I'm pretty broke heroside so I wouldn't be able to pimp it out as I'd like. And I wouldn't make an Elec/SD brute because the combo is just so, so much better on scrappers Maybe closer to when GR comes out... |
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Yeah, if I did make an Elec/SD I'd go with Blaze. Blast to shore up the ST damage and Ball because its simply magnificent I'll have to muck about with Mids when I get home to see what I can come up with.
So uh, who wants to finance Silas making an Elec/SD scrapper?
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I made a pretty cheap Elec/SD build that is floating around here in one of the Elec/SD threads.
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Dark/Shield Build Thread
I didn't read the whole thread but does Spine/Dark Armor have any hope of mowing down vast amount of mobs in a non-specialized arena (I'm thinking just plowing through Dark Astoria, missions set to +3 players +2 level, etc)?
Also, what APP do people like for their farming Scrappers?
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You can actually make Dark Armor be pretty damn tough with IO investment. I'm working on a Claws/Dark Brute build and it has near softcap melee and S/L defense, backed with decent resists and a monster heal that brings you back to full HP with only 2 targets. Leveling one up can be a little challenging though, it's squisher than most sets and has high end cost.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
I didn't read the whole thread but does Spine/Dark Armor have any hope of mowing down vast amount of mobs in a non-specialized arena (I'm thinking just plowing through Dark Astoria, missions set to +3 players +2 level, etc)?
Also, what APP do people like for their farming Scrappers? |
I didn't have room for APP on my Spines/Fire because I built towards defense so that limited the slots I could use, but it's pretty sturdy. Although, I would certainly go Blaze Mastery if I had room, for Fireball goodness. Body Mastery is also good for Energy Torrent.
[U][URL="http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=251594"][/URL][/U]
Energy Torrent with FFB proc for the justice. My Spines/Regen has Ragnaroks with the proc in Throw Spines and Posis with the FFB proc in Energy Torrent and its knockdownalicious.
Edit: To answer your question Neuronia, I would say Blaze for a better AoE or Body for more mitigation and end management.
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With spines, as you will be outside of the mob lined up for a cone to use throw spines anyways, there is no competition that you should go with body mastery. Also being dark armor, PP solidifies this choice to help with your endurance management and accuracy should it need be (can also be good for the 2.5% gaussions defense to all 3 types which you can get some half-decent defense on top of your other defenses to make DA pretty sturdy, just cause you have FA doesnt mean it has to be turned on all the time end-wise) I'll try to make a build to see its likeliness when I get home today.
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Originally Posted by Silas
Energy Torrent with FFB proc for the justice. My Spines/Regen has Ragnaroks with the proc in Throw Spines and Posis with the FFB proc in Energy Torrent and its knockdownalicious.
Edit: To answer your question Neuronia, I would say Blaze for a better AoE or Body for more mitigation and end management. |
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well I 50'd my MA/SD scrapper the other day, and got a good ammount of his sets. And and after Focus Chi+Shield Charge+Dragons Tail, pretty much everything is dead. I hit Eagles Claw then Dragons Tail is back up.
Dragons tail has a very fast recharge compaired to Lightening Rod. I am pretty darn happy with his ability to smash mobs in a hurry. The fast recharge on Dragons Tail makes for a rather nice farmer =D
and I am running on +2 +8 atm =P
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For me a taunt aura is a big advantage while farming. My Katana/Dark has a lot of runners that slow down my kill rate and my /Shields and /Invul do not have that problem.
With the new difficulty settings I don't farm the wall anymore (thank goodness) but when I did do that with my /SR it was terrible. It seemed like half the spawn jumped over the edge.
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50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
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+1 Fire/Shield/Blaze
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Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
I farm with a fire/shield/blaze scrapper and am able to get to the 25-26M/hour benchmark in a hour's worth of casual farming (chatting, taking breaks). I think the build is more flexible than an electric shield largely because it has a better single target attack chain, which is a non-factor while farming, but anything but when taken outside of a farm.
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This was an answer to a lot of prayers, that wall was getting boring and reptative. I farm with my MA/WP/Flame and Dragon Tail w/ two procs, still damage and recharge capped, and Fire ball w/ damage proc puts mobs to waste.
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Originally Posted by Moonlighter
With the new difficulty settings I don't farm the wall anymore (thank goodness) but when I did do that with my /SR it was terrible. It seemed like half the spawn jumped over the edge. |
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Quote:
The wall is still fun. Best place in the game for an AR farmer
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Originally Posted by Da_Captain
This was an answer to a lot of prayers, that wall was getting boring and reptative. I farm with my MA/WP/Flame and Dragon Tail w/ two procs, still damage and recharge capped, and Fire ball w/ damage proc puts mobs to waste.
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Against +2 enemies at the damage cap LRod doesn't kill lieutenants. If by "doing something wrong" you mean "fight anything over +1" then, yes, my playstyle is wrong.