If you could cancel the Cottage Rule. . .
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-11-18 19:01 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I blame the sleepiness.
Because Radiation's -Def benefits the entire team not just the blaster. When it comes to team based play a -Def debuff is a lot more useful than +Acc self buff. |
When is the last time your team got real benefit from -def ?
ACC is usually the first thing that everyone slots.
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When was the last time you got real benefit from having 1.155 Acc instead of 1? Neither the Acc of Archery or the -Def of Radiation are particularly brilliant bonuses. However I would rank the -Def as slightly better for a few reasons. Primarily as I noted before the -Def does affect the entire team. Secondly because of the way attack mechanics work, the -Def is multiplied by your accuracy so it's a larger bonus (unless you already have large to hit bonuses or the enemy has DDR). Finally unlike Acc the Def debuffs from different powers stack.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
When is the last time your team got real benefit from -def ?
ACC is usually the first thing that everyone slots. |
The only advantage Acc has over -def is that you always benefit from it and it isn't affected by your enemies resistance.
Yeah, Gravity Control is the set that stands to benefit the most from the temporary dismissal of the cottage rule. A lot of powers need to be shuffled around, and a few need changing completely. Most importantly, it needs to have a good power at level 12.
Level 12 is usually that magic level that brings with it a game-changing power for your character. Having Dimension Shift there is just a huge lump of disappointment.
Then again, having Dimension Shift anywhere is a huge lump of disappointment. Dimension Shift and Black Hole, especially, are simply not good powers. Black Hole is only worse because it's in the same set as Fearsome Stare, a power that serves the same role but does it so much better.
Also, for the argument with the -def from Rad Blast: It's worthwhile to note that the -Def on most Rad Blast powers is hugely overblown (especially for Defenders). Unless something has a lot of resistance to the debuff, your blasts will tear its defense to shreds.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
When was the last time you got real benefit from having 1.155 Acc instead of 1? Neither the Acc of Archery or the -Def of Radiation are particularly brilliant bonuses. However I would rank the -Def as slightly better for a few reasons. Primarily as I noted before the -Def does affect the entire team. Secondly because of the way attack mechanics work, the -Def is multiplied by your accuracy so it's a larger bonus (unless you already have large to hit bonuses or the enemy has DDR). Finally unlike Acc the Def debuffs from different powers stack.
The only advantage Acc has over -def is that you always benefit from it and it isn't affected by your enemies resistance. |
Well it isn't ice's slows or sonic's -res but it comes in useful when planing out your builds. Acc isn't much a problem in IO builds to begin with with archery its just that much smoother. The one nice thing about -def in radiation is you can slot achiles heel procs.
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Pre-20 it is highly beneficial, both when leveling up through that range and when exemplaring back down into it. After that, it's of limited usage.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
When was the last time you got real benefit from having 1.155 Acc instead of 1? Neither the Acc of Archery or the -Def of Radiation are particularly brilliant bonuses. .
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Both +acc and -def get hurt by all of the accuracy bonuses given out in IO slotting.
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I think folks are undervaluing -def a bit. If you just stick with the equivalent of one SO worth of accuracy (which most of my builds end up at pre-IOs due to slot shortage) then there are huge swaths of the game where you aren't at 95% to-hit. Being able to make your whole team hit 20% more often against entire groups of enemies with things like Irradiate can be hugely helpful. Sure, it doesn't scale that well if you're slotted out with IOs, but it's been pointed out a lot before and I will continue to do so--IO builds actually aren't that common. It can be practically negated by IOs, while you can almost always use more -res or -speed, so I think it could use some attention. But I'd still call it useful for a huge chunk of the game for most players.
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Well it isn't ice's slows or sonic's -res but it comes in useful when planing out your builds. Acc isn't much a problem in IO builds to begin with with archery its just that much smoother. The one nice thing about -def in radiation is you can slot achiles heel procs.
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Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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... last time that someone dropped a Nemesis Lieutenant first?
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Originally Posted by Another_Fan
When is the last time your team got real benefit from -def ?
ACC is usually the first thing that everyone slots. |
Mini-guides: Force Field Defenders, Blasters, Market Self-Defense, Frankenslotting.
So you think you're a hero, huh.
@Boltcutter in game.
Speaking as a MA/SR scrapper ... the absurdities of accuracy set bonuses (and how high they can stack up) always felt like the devs were saying (to the DEFensive powersets), "awww, your entire primary/secondary is still managing to protect you somehow? here let us FIX THAT so it's completely worthless all the time (in PvP) by default."
How many player powers have Defense Debuff on them? About * 50 * of them.
How many player powers have Resist Debuff on them? About a dozen?
How many player powers have Regeneration Debuff on them? Do I even need a second hand of fingers to count that high?
Which protection scheme collapses most catastrophically from cascade failure brought about by Buffs and Debuffs? DEFense.
Which protection scheme intrinsically resists the very Debuffs meant to Debuff it? Resistance.
"Hey ... there isn't enough +Accuracy sloshing around in the system yet! Let's add more on, like ... half the IO sets we're gonna put in the game! And let's make the bonus really HUGE! Like, 3 to 5 times as huge as any of the global mezz duration bonuses or resistances or the defense bonuses or resist bonuses or ... well ... anything except RECHARGE! Yeah, that'll be popular!"
</threadjack>
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
I have an Arch/Devices that i enjoy a lot. But in all honesty I would never make another devices toon again...
1)Gun Drone.. too much end.. too long to summon.. doesnt stay long at all for the end cost and time to summon
2)Time Bomb stinks...
3)Trip mines take too long to set up in teams and even solo. The set up time needs to be reduced.
4)No build up. Targeting Drone should give a DAMAGE buff as well.
5)The Smoke Grenade is meh
oh yeah and Gravity sucks..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
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Just to note, +ACC doesn't do that much to +DEF. In fact, you should be glad they changed it. Previously almost all the bonuses were +ToHit. Now only the Kismet unique is, and only +6%. You should also be glad they did what Arcanaville suggested, and implemented elusiveness, meaning +DEF sets actually reduce and counteract accuracy (in PvP).
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
Speaking as a MA/SR scrapper ... the absurdities of accuracy set bonuses (and how high they can stack up) always felt like the devs were saying (to the DEFensive powersets), "awww, your entire primary/secondary is still managing to protect you somehow? here let us FIX THAT so it's completely worthless all the time (in PvP) by default."
How many player powers have Defense Debuff on them? About * 50 * of them. How many player powers have Resist Debuff on them? About a dozen? How many player powers have Regeneration Debuff on them? Do I even need a second hand of fingers to count that high? Which protection scheme collapses most catastrophically from cascade failure brought about by Buffs and Debuffs? DEFense. Which protection scheme intrinsically resists the very Debuffs meant to Debuff it? Resistance. "Hey ... there isn't enough +Accuracy sloshing around in the system yet! Let's add more on, like ... half the IO sets we're gonna put in the game! And let's make the bonus really HUGE! Like, 3 to 5 times as huge as any of the global mezz duration bonuses or resistances or the defense bonuses or resist bonuses or ... well ... anything except RECHARGE! Yeah, that'll be popular!" </threadjack> |
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Oh I'm grateful to Arcanaville ... don't get me wrong.
Doesn't mean the +Acc bonuses handed out like "free candy" on half the IO sets in the game isn't overdoing it, especially when most of them are like +9% a pop.
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
As others have said, Gravity Control is the obvious set that needs a rebuild. It needs at least one more form of useful area control that comes earlier in the set (L12 preferably - maybe as a replacement for Dimension Shift with the set's order being changed) and/or maybe some soft control too (maybe turn Lift into a Targeted AE knock-up that also has a chance to stun). Propel also needs to have its animation time reduced, and maybe a stun and/or knockback effect added (even if it means increasing the power's recharge - I'd rather that than reduced damage).
Though if I was only allowed to change one power instead of one powerset it would be a tough choice between turning Dark Miasma's Black Hole into something useful (preferably a reverse-repel that draws enemies towards it - maybe using a Taunt mechanism like Omega Maneuver - then perhaps has a chance of applying a hold or stun to them while they're within its area), or alternatively turning Storm Summoning's O2 Boost into a PBAE heal rather than a targeted AE heal (preferably without losing the secondary effects) - though the latter probably skirts the edge of the cottage rule.
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Electric, I would make the energize power come earlier like it does for scrappers. Its not fair to brutes and stalkers all because of this cottage rule BS. |
Originally Posted by Jabbrwock
for just one power set to get completely reworked, which set would it be?
For those who aren't familiar, the Cottage Rule is a rule the devs try to follow that prevents them from completely altering the function of a power, or its placement in the power set, or the IO sets with which it can be slotted, except as the absolute last resort to solve a critical, must-solve problem which cannot be solved any other way. Thus, Electric Armor's heal still functions as an endurance discount power, as an example. Adding abilities is OK, altering strength of abilities is OK, completely transforming a power is not. My nomination: Gravity Control leaps out at me as a set that is severely hindered by the Cottage Rule. Just putting Wormhole in an earlier slot would help the set enormously, and changing Dimension Shift to be, well, something other than a foe intangibility power, would really make it much more generally useful. |
Next is gravity, its so long over due for a change. Remove dimension shift for sure and move wormhole to that spot and at 26 I would put back in fold space, which was the original gravity lvl 32 power. Dimension shift is the one power in the game that has done the most harm than good than any power I have ever seen. I have seen like maybe 2 players in my whole time playing CoX use this power properly and it not lead to the team getting slaughtered because of it.
Next is force fields, I would make some of the buffs useable on self or either switch the values of the single bubbles and the big bubble so the caster actually gets some benefit instead of being the weakest link in the chain. Samething with sonics. In both case I would totally get rid of the last power for something that increases the damage. If force bubble has to stay then I would switch its range with dispersion bubble but make the repel on it non-aggro and alot stronger, enough to keep avs out of the range of it.
Thermals and Cold, I would get rid of the stupidly long recharges they have on the debuffing powers in the set. There is no need for that, its not like you are going to be soloing lvl 54 avs with this powerset.
SR I would make evasion come earlier like the brute version and swap agile and dodge placement since you need more melee defense earlier.
Remove all dominator snipe powers. Its kind of pointless when you dont get a full aim and build up power to take advantage of it. I would replace it with some kind of heal or resistance toggle.
Kheldians I would delete from existance and start over. They are nothing special, just a bunch of reused powers from other sets. I would start over with 100% new and unique powers for those ATs. I would make them into something truely epic something worthy of them being on a team instead of being a liability to the team.
Invulnerability I would restore it back to its issue 3 numbers so the set would be playable again.
Fire Armor I would give knockback protection to that passive power or to one of the toggles.
Dark Armor I would condense the toggles down or slash the endurance cost of the set down to 1/3 of its current value so you can play without having IO it out first, maybe move cloak of fear down earlier and give knockback protection as well as immobilize in its mez toggle.
Ninjutsu I would remove the smoke flash power as well as blinding powder. I would replace those for the Turn into a Log power. Basically you set the log some where in the mission. And when your die you swap places with the log. You come back with 1/2 hp, no end but with no debt recharge 15 minutes unaffected by recharge. The other power would be shuriken throw.
Martial Arts I would restore it back to its original animations but increase the damage by alot to compensate for the long posses. Its damage output per hit would be like total focus and energy transfer on some hits
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
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While build up and aim are useful for snipes they aren't required. AR/Dev blasters still benefit from Sniper Rifle despite having neither Aim or Build Up. Also, Dominator snipes do higher damage than blaster ones in partial compensation|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Remove all dominator snipe powers. Its kind of pointless when you dont get a full aim and build up power to take advantage of it. I would replace it with some kind of heal or resistance toggle.
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| Kheldians I would delete from existance and start over. They are nothing special, just a bunch of reused powers from other sets. I would start over with 100% new and unique powers for those ATs. I would make them into something truely epic something worthy of them being on a team instead of being a liability to the team. |
As for them not being unique, how many ATs have the capability to switch from the firepower of a blaster to the resistance of a tanker in 2.03s? Sure, single form Khelds aren't particularly unique since they mostly fill the same role as a Tank/Blaster/Blapper depending on their focus but a dual form Kheld is easy to build and can add flexibility to a team when the going gets tough.
Good question.
Devices - Not too many changes, but here is what I would do. I love devices, but it needs some love to make it comparable to other blaster secondaries. These are in no particular order.
(1) Targeting drone, I would change it to have extra damage to all snipes with a 10% chance to scourge per corrupter rules.
(2) Smoke bomb - Useless as is. Buff it with a Confuse. Enemies surrounded by smoke would know something is up, but it may create friendly fire as well.
(3) Cloaking Device - Needs increased defense to make it worth considering or maximal stealth so you dont need SS with it to be invis. I actually vote getting rid of this altogether though and creating a device called Hologram. This would create a duplicate of you (or for coding, perhaps just a phantom army hologram) that does not attack or cause damage, but has a single powerful AOE taunt that can be slotted for. This would be useful for setting up trip mines or even time bomb (which I will come to). Stealth IO's really replace cloaking device, so a hologram to call enemies over to a mine field makes a lot of sense and is thematic with devices. Also, it could potentially help teams as well as the blaster.
(4) Webnade - Give it a small DOT componant (like net is tightening - smashing dam) OR make duration double
(5) Caltrops - Give a small -to hit debuff. Hey, you step on those things and try to shoot someone. Yes, I would give the same -to hit debuff to the knives and others that use them.
(6) Trip Mine -Leave alone, but if change, give some good old fashioned targeted AOE frag grenades
(7) Taser - Leave alone or exchange - it's love or hate on this power, so I would probably just leave alone.
(8) Time Bomb - Worst power with best potential. Create the power sticky bomb, which has been suggested before. Basically, the blaster needs to walk up to an enemy, and literally place the bomb on them (no interrupt issue). The bomb then has a 5 second timer on it before exploding. It could be something similar to when red cap bosses throw the little red cap suicide bomber on you. This would be fun and make the power more useful.
(9) Gun Drone - the buffs on gun drone actually were pretty good with its mobility, so I would not change it except to eliminate the need to resummon it, or lower the endurance use to summon, so minor change.
if I could change only one power, I would change Time Bomb, as it is a great nuke when solo, but I think a sticky bomb placed by a stealther could be as effective solo and it is more team friendly in my above description. My second choice would be cloaking device and changing it to a hologram power. The first choice is the most needed. The second choice is the cooler idea though. If one of those was changed, I would roll a new /devices immediately.
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I don't know about you but I do not consider a 7% (with slotting) To Hit debuff useless unless you are already soft capped on defense (or teamed with a Dark/Dark defender). Not to mention it can be used to get glowies that are surrounded by enemies. Stealth effects are suppressed when you click a glowie, but if you debuff the enemies perception instead you can get glowies that you wouldn't be able to with stealth alone.|
Originally Posted by NightSable
(2) Smoke bomb - Useless as is. Buff it with a Confuse. Enemies surrounded by smoke would know something is up, but it may create friendly fire as well.
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A confuse would be an interesting effect though.
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You more or less had me until here. The snipes suck, yes. Heal or RES toggles on Doms? Don't think so...|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Remove all dominator snipe powers. Its kind of pointless when you dont get a full aim and build up power to take advantage of it. I would replace it with some kind of heal or resistance toggle.
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| Invulnerability I would restore it back to its issue 3 numbers so the set would be playable again. |
At the very least, it's certainly more than "playable."
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| Fire Armor I would give knockback protection to that passive power or to one of the toggles. |
Besides that there's also some weird holes I don't understand. What does an invulnerable person have to be afraid of?
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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That's basically where concept and implementation part ways. The idea was a good one; the Blaster doesn't enter into melee, because that's a bad place for a Blaster (particularly one with no powers, just a gun and some grenades) to be. Instead, he lays traps, so when the foe comes to HIM, he gets blown up. |
Originally Posted by Dispari
As you say, [Devices] lacks direct melee damage. Really, it lacks direct damage period. All the powers it can use to do damage with (besides trivial caltrops or taser damage) are interruptable, and thus can't really be used in combat. The main issue with Devices is that none of the powers are actually usable in a fight. They have to be used before, or at the very best, while someone else is keeping baddies entertained.
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Unfortunately, in practice the time taken to set up the traps precludes their being used. Even if you do use them, the nature of combat means you cannot be assured the foe will wall into the trap, thus further wasting the time taken to set them. The devs obviously did not anticipate this.
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| You more or less had me until here. The snipes suck, yes. Heal or RES toggles on Doms? Don't think so... |
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| Besides that there's also some weird holes I don't understand. What does an invulnerable person have to be afraid of? |
OTOH, it's very likely considered part of the Invulnerability "Psi hole". You can't attack an Invuln's body, but you can attack his mind.
I'm going to have to agree with EvilRyu on one thing - Dominator snipes need to be ditched - I just don't see how they're supposed to fit the Dominator playstyle. Give some sets another area attack, give other sets another single target attack, anything but the snipes. The only times I take the snipes on a dom are for set muling.
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Originally Posted by Lord Mayhem
I'm going to have to agree with EvilRyu on one thing - Dominator snipes need to be ditched - I just don't see how they're supposed to fit the Dominator playstyle. Give some sets another area attack, give other sets another single target attack, anything but the snipes. The only times I take the snipes on a dom are for set muling.
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Why stop at Doms? We made this case above. Snipes just don't fit in the game.
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Snipes could fit if they were balanced toward what they're for. For a 4 second cast time on a power that does less damage than Total Focus, which you can use in combat, it's just not worth it.|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Why stop at Doms? We made this case above. Snipes just don't fit in the game.
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Snipes could be upped to have twice the damage they have now, and then they might be good. You might have to up the recharge to 32 or 40 or something, but that'd be a heck of an opener... unlike what we currently have which is really just good for taking out minions. That still wouldn't be as much damage as an AS, so not too nutty.
Just doesn't fit a Dom lifestyle though, even if the damage was upped.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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I could probably go for getting rid of them on Stalkers (I'd always lead with AS, or LRod/Tstrike on my Elec/, never a snipe), but I like snipes in Blast sets mainly because I do use them on some of my Blasters (especially solo), either when pulling or just for an alpha-strike on an awkward mob (like Sappers), or for killing a runner at a distance (if I'm too lazy to chase - it is fun in Cimerora shooting enemies that jump off the wall while you're still on the wall - Snipe + Boost Range ftw!).|
Originally Posted by brophog02
Why stop at Doms? We made this case above. Snipes just don't fit in the game.
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On Corruptors/Defenders I only tend to play debuff-heavy sets, so I'd always lead in with a debuff or control and have little need of the snipe - but you can't really drop snipes from the blast sets for just certain ATs, as whatever you replace it with might cause problems (look at the disappointment over Psi Blast for Blasters being different from the Defender version). Besides Corruptors/Defenders tend to take more powers from their non-Blast set than Blasters would from their secondary, so it's not like having a less useful power in the blast set is really hurting Corrs/Defs that much.
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You made a case for not liking them. Both Lord Mayhem and I have made a case for why we like 'em on our Blasters (for pretty much the same reasons).
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Originally Posted by brophog02
Why stop at Doms? We made this case above. Snipes just don't fit in the game.
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while a minor issue to me (since my /Elec Brute is already level 40), I agree that this would be a large enough improvement in the set to warrant discarding the power order portion of the Cottage Rule.|
Originally Posted by EvilRyu
Electric, I would make the energize power come earlier like it does for scrappers. Its not fair to brutes and stalkers all because of this cottage rule BS.
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| Next is gravity, its so long over due for a change. Remove dimension shift for sure and move wormhole to that spot and at 26 I would put back in fold space, which was the original gravity lvl 32 power. Dimension shift is the one power in the game that has done the most harm than good than any power I have ever seen. I have seen like maybe 2 players in my whole time playing CoX use this power properly and it not lead to the team getting slaughtered because of it. |
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| Kheldians I would delete from existance and start over. They are nothing special, just a bunch of reused powers from other sets. I would start over with 100% new and unique powers for those ATs. I would make them into something truely epic something worthy of them being on a team instead of being a liability to the team. |
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| Invulnerability I would restore it back to its issue 3 numbers so the set would be playable again. |
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
Some of us prefer a slower, more deliberate playstyle, and Devices is good set for that. Cloaking Device's 35ft stealth lets you ghost most missions if you're careful, stacks nicely with Smoke Grenade, and lets you pick your battles in almost all situations. Caltrops keeps opponents out of melee range, and combines nicely with Trip Mine to catch fast-moving target such as the Halloween werewolves. Ever one-shotted an elite boss? Trip mines + hasten + recharge has the potential. Gun drone by itself is fairly useless, but summoning one is a good way to draw a mob across a minefield while remaining cloaked.
I agree that Time Bomb is useless.
Even though it is good for a slow and deliberate playstyle (and don't get me wrong I like my Arch/Dev and my Sonic/Ice both of which have deliberate playstyles) it is much too slow and much too deliberate.
Cloaking Device is not so good a stealth power because it costs you a power pick and it costs you endurance. It is replaceable by a single IO enhancement and that IO can be slotted in a power you get for free (Sprint).
Sprint can be toggled on and off and you have 30 feet stealth for the next 120 seconds with out spending a single endurance and there is virtually no difference between 35 feet of stealth and 30 feet.
The defense provided by CD is similarly not worth it. If you are playing a slow deliberate trapper you will seldom be taking any direct damage and won't need the defense. Not only that but the benefit provided by combat jumping, both in terms of defense/end and the status protection makes CD a waste.
Smoke Grenade has similar problems. While it can be combined with CD for PvE invisibility it suffers the same problem as above. Too much end for the benefits and the secondary effects are both low value and have a to hit roll meaning that the power is only useful as -perception unless it is heavily slotted. Mobs outside the radius are unaffected as are mobs that you can't target due to being out of LoS or out of range.
Super Speed solves that problem, most blasters have hasten anyway to leverage defiance, and it gives you all the same effects for yourself that smoke grenade does in the base slot. Combined with a stealth IO it gives you PvE invisibility. You can do all that in one power pick with 1 slot instead of 2 with heavy slotting requirements.
While trip mine is nice especially when combined with Caltrops you won't be slowing wolves down ever. Caltrops have no effect on them since they are immune to movement and recharge slows and they move fast enough that they can run past a trip mine without setting it off.
Gun drone isn't totally useless but it's end cost is far too great, it's casting time is far too great, it's duration is far too short especially when taken in the light of end cost and casting time and how little damage it puts out now due to the pet recharge nerf. The other thing that it used to be good at, contributing damage while the blaster is mezzed, is done better by the blaster now that the tier 1 and 2 primary and tier 2 secondary can be fired while mezzed.
I won't disagree that casting one as a lure so that you can stay cloaked is bad but forgetting to dismiss it before you start setting up your next mine field can ruin your day, a trade off that I don't really care for.
Also I never ever see posts calling time bomb useless from /Dev players that take the time to set up huge mine fields. It's quite useful for a player with that type playstyle. The other thing that you are missing is that primaries with crashless nukes like Archery and Assault Rifle or LRM from munitions benefit greatly from time bomb. 2 crashless mininukes used at the same time do more damage than a standard nuke and if you add in the time you don't have any end recovery from a crash it takes about the same amount of time to pull off as Time Bomb + RoA. Should it be able to be done faster? Without a doubt. Can it be done so that it is faster? I have no doubt that the dev team that has brought us power customization could pull it off.
Devices big problems are that many of the powers (CD, Smoke Grenade, Targetting Drone) can be replaced by IO sets or set bonuses for less or no end costs and while it may be fine and safe for soloing the powers that can't be replaced by sets and set bonuses (with the exception of Web Grenade and Caltrops) aren't easily or effectively used for ANY team whether they steam roll or not. The pace is too slow even on a team of new players that are going slow because they don't know how to go fast and live.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson