If you could cancel the Cottage Rule. . .
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2009-11-18 19:01 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Archery has become the most popular blast set?
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Originally Posted by Biospark
I Dont have in mind a particular powerset that could be offered up as a number one candidate for this, but like others I have some general things to comment on.
First, why should there be a problem with shuffling around powers. There are many powers that come too early and could be pushed to later in a build. Others that come much later than when they would make a very sizable contribution. If the devs moved a power (earlier or later) it would be the perfect excuse to boost up a power that needed improvement, and tone down one that might be a little too good. Secondly, I agree with others on both Snipes and Nukes. I played around with both these when I was new to the game. I still try them now and again on new characters, but the fact remains (for me) that these powers are skippable because the downside outweighs the upside. These are perfect candidates for change IMO. Finally, I think all Tier 9s need an overall concept and performance review. The newest generation of Tier 9s have brought Crash-less Nukes and Semi-Unstoppable powers that cannot be enhanced for recharge. The developers should decide what is the proper mechanic for a Tier 9 power and make it consistent. I dont mind that my powerset has a Crashing Nuke that much if everyone else suffers the same penalty. Archery has become the most popular Blast set very quickly. Could RoA be the reason ? |
"Be a beacon?"
Blue Mourning: lvl. 50 Katana/DA
Bree the Barricade: lvl 50 Stone/Axe
Last Chance for Eden: lvl 50 Fire/Kin
Myra the Grey: lvl 50 Bots/Traps
1 Minute to Midnight lvl 50 Spines/DA
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I don't think it's the most popular, but for Farming Archery/MM is generally considered the fastest set (with Fire a close second). As Biospark suggested it's largely because RoA does about 50% of the damage of most nukes without having a crash and being on a short enough recharge that with IOs you have do it on pretty much every spawn.
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Originally Posted by Blue_Mourning
Archery has become the most popular blast set?
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I like this idea, though I suppose the damage element should be dropped for parity with other controller sets.|
Originally Posted by Airhammer
Power Idea based off someone elses post...
Gravity gets a new power.. Black Hole Slam.. Works Like Omega Manuever.. draws folks in then BOOM Smashing Damage to all in range (no knockback) maybe disorients minions... |
I'd call it Gravity Sphere.
I could see this power being useful for grouping foes. The player gestures and a gravity sphere appears at a targeted area, drawing all foes within the area of effect to a common point. It could require an accuracy roll per foe and draw endurance for each foe moved. The gravity sphere effect would be maintained till the player cancels the power or runs out of end. Foes in the gravity sphere's influence would be immobilized and slowed, so the effects of Gravity Sphere would stack with other controls.
The gravity sphere itself would also be treated as a pet which can take damage, so a player caught in a gravity sphere would have the option of attacking the casting player (if ranged AT) or the pet (if melee AT).
BTW ... I didn't see anyone mention this, but if the dark def power Black Hole is essentially the same as Dimension Shift, it could be changed in the same manner as Dimension Shift.
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I don't like the idea of giving Web Grenade damage. What I'd do instead is magnify the -recharge effect on it by making the web have an AoE effect like SoA VEATs have. (Basically, the downfalls of the Device set are corrected in the Traps and SoA sets.)|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Damage would be nice on Web Grenades (I recommend Smashing) but I think there's a balance issue from the devs end. Technically the lack of damage is supposed to be balanced by the recharge reduction. The problem is that recharge reduction is a poor form of damage mitigation unless you have A LOT of it.
For both Web and Smoke Grenades it should be pretty easy to give them an alternate animation for firing them from an Assault Rifle. For Archery/Devices BABs might be able to make an alternate animation where he throws the grenade with his off hand while holding the bow in his left (similar to some brawl animations). The problem is I suspect that it would require giving all Devices users an Assault Rifle and Bow costume pieces in the tailors regardless of whether they use the alternate animations or not which might cause some issues (can a powerset have two weapons associated with it?). Of course I'm sure that the devs could find a way around these issues if they wanted to. |
As for the annoying redraw on grenade powers, I humbly suggest that the animation be changed to allow single-handed grenade throws. Yes, I know the classic grenade throw involves pulling a pin, but surely by now our heroes have advanced technology that allows a single-handed activation and throw.
Alternatively, SoA toons fire Wide Area Web Grenades from their guns. If adopting this method is the better solution, I'm fine with that.
I think I would be inclined to replace Gun Drone with Throw Rock.
Really. 
My impression of Gun Drone is that it is supposed to be modeled after Voltaic Sentinel and such powers. How this actually gets used, I think, is that for a defender it provides needed extra damage, and for a blaster it gets used as a decoy to take a mob's alpha.
The idea behind Throw Rock is from the well-known scene in movies where the soldier / gunslinger throws a rock to misdirect the foes. So in this case, the rock would have brief taunt abilities, yet act as a concealed target, and thus could be used as a decoy. A player could Throw Rock to pull a mob from an area, allowing the player to pass unmolested. Or as an offensive move, a player could Throw Rock to draw foes to a corner where they could be subjected to an aoe attack.
Throw Rock could also be used within the Device set to draw foes to planted Trip Mines and Time Bomb.
On a team, Throw Rock could be used to some degree in place of a herding tank, though obviously after the initial taunt aggro would not be held by the rock.
As it is not an attack, Throw Rock would not break concealment, so it could be used in conjunction with Cloaking Device.
Throw Rock would have a low taunt value, so it would not compete with active taunting or visible threats. It could also have a side-effect of temporary taunt resistance, so that foes previously taunted by Throw Rock will be less likely to be taunted by further rocks. With low taunt value and taunt resistance in place, it becomes possible to reduce the recharge time on the power so it is practically always available.
Of course, a key problem with this suggestion is that people would say "Throw Rock is a tier 9? lmao". So further jiggering and re-jiggering of Devices would probably have to occur to enable this power. 
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While I would love to have Wide Area Web Grenade for my Blaster I really don't see it happening. Basically you're proposing adding an AoE control as the Tier 1 power in a Blaster secondary and I just don't see the devs doing that, considering that Controllers and Dominators don't get an AoE Immob until Tier 3 in thier Primary. While there are Blaster AoE controls they all come much later in powersets, except for AoEs with a chance to Knockback and those are all in Primaries not secondaries.|
Originally Posted by konshu
I don't like the idea of giving Web Grenade damage. What I'd do instead is magnify the -recharge effect on it by making the web have an AoE effect like SoA VEATs have. (Basically, the downfalls of the Device set are corrected in the Traps and SoA sets.)
As for the annoying redraw on grenade powers, I humbly suggest that the animation be changed to allow single-handed grenade throws. Yes, I know the classic grenade throw involves pulling a pin, but surely by now our heroes have advanced technology that allows a single-handed activation and throw. Alternatively, SoA toons fire Wide Area Web Grenades from their guns. If adopting this method is the better solution, I'm fine with that. |
I don't particularly want damage on Web Grenade either, but an AoE immobolize, even with the wimpy radius WAWG has seems a bit to good for a Blaster secondaries Tier 1.
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I don't think a rock counts as a "Device" - not since the stone age anyway |
Originally Posted by konshu
I think I would be inclined to replace Gun Drone with Throw Rock.
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How about a holographic decoy like Arnie had in Total Recall?
Drawing further inspiration from the same source, Time Bomb could be changed into a fat woman's head that you throw into an enemy's hands and they stare at it until it explodes
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To an extent I disagree with this strategy and game mechanic.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I don't know about you but I do not consider a 7% (with slotting) To Hit debuff useless unless you are already soft capped on defense (or teamed with a Dark/Dark defender). Not to mention it can be used to get glowies that are surrounded by enemies. Stealth effects are suppressed when you click a glowie, but if you debuff the enemies perception instead you can get glowies that you wouldn't be able to with stealth alone.
A confuse would be an interesting effect though. |
I've always found it inconsistent that some -to hit attacks do not draw aggro. I think Flash Arrow, Smoke, and Smoke Bomb should all draw aggro, but they should have additional effects in addition to the temporary -to hit and -per.
Effects that could be added might include minor amounts of fear, confusion, slow, and -recharge. Fear, in that you've been attacked by something you can't see. Confusion in that you may not be able to tell friend from foe. Slow in that you're being cautious, and the same for -recharge. In a way these powers could resemble a temporary remote-cast Arctic Air, but with no ability to buff fear, confuse, slow, or -recharge via enhancements (except as may be provided by -to hit procs).
While individually these additional effects might not amount to much, they could stack through either application of additional Flash / Smoke attacks or other attacks that provide fear, confuse, etc., or control / containment.
As for the aggro, to avoid having the whole mob target the debuffing player with a withering alpha, you could have each of them do something like an extra perception and accuracy roll (after applying the the -per / -to hit debuffs) to see if they actually perceive the player and perceive well enough to target. (This should in particular be managed in a way that does not penalize the lower level player who has fewer slots / enhancements in their power.)
Furthermore, I think that if the player is running a concealment power when they use Flash / Smoke, they should benefit by having dramatically lower return aggro. This creates a useful synergy for Cloaking Device and Smoke Bomb, as well as other power combinations.
Essentially, I believe these -per / -to hit debuffing attacks should kindle aggro, but the response should be moderated so the result is not immediate massed aggro upon the debuffer.
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Well, as I pointed out, VEATs get Wide Area Web Grenade. Yeah, it's at tier 4, but Web Grenade as it exists for blasters is inadequate while WAWG works great. So I think we need to make Web Grenade more like WAWG.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
While I would love to have Wide Area Web Grenade for my Blaster I really don't see it happening. Basically you're proposing adding an AoE control as the Tier 1 power in a Blaster secondary and I just don't see the devs doing that, considering that Controllers and Dominators don't get an AoE Immob until Tier 3 in thier Primary. While there are Blaster AoE controls they all come much later in powersets, except for AoEs with a chance to Knockback and those are all in Primaries not secondaries.
I don't particularly want damage on Web Grenade either, but an AoE immobolize, even with the wimpy radius WAWG has seems a bit to good for a Blaster secondaries Tier 1. |
I'd say if WAWG is too powerful for a tier 1 blaster power, then reduce some of its effects, such as immob duration, slow, -recharge, range, area of effect, or whatever till it fits. Just keep the ability to immob and -recharge multiple close foes.
My impression is that WAWG already has a small enough radius of effect that it doesn't really compare to Controller or Dominator mass immobs (which have a huge area of effect), and the web also does no damage (whereas Controller or Dominator immobs do). So I see less of a comparison to the Controller and Dominator powers, but mainly the need to reduce WAWG for blaster tier 1 so that SoA players don't complain about blasters getting their tier 4 power at tier 1.
Naturally, if you boost Web Grenade for Devices, you need to look at changing it for Traps and also changing Entangling Arrow. However, I see this as a good thing because the single-target no-damage immob has always been for me an unfavored power. If it can briefly trap 3-4 closely packed foes, and reduce their recharge so I get an edge on attacking them, that's ever so much more useful, and it starts to give the power synergies with other powers (essentially anything with area effects, such as Caltrops, Flame Thrower, etc.).
Basically, as I see it blasters should either have a single-target immob that does decent damage in addition to immob (as with fire, ice, electricity), or it should do no damage and buff up the immob effect in a useful way. And I think the most useful way to buff the immob is to make it *possible* for it to capture more than one target if they are closely packed.
If anyone ever wants to see the origin of the Cottage Rule or link to it, it's been "archived" right here.
Black hole slam should have a Knock-toward the epicenter with massive stun.
I like Archana's idea of hostile dimentions (should have a random effect when "phasing in", tho, like: damage, -regen, -acc, vomit, stun, sleep, etc. - totally random and irresistable)
Miss Arc #147491: Rise of Bedlam
AKA Iron Smoke @Champion Server
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Actually, they got new tech that allows powers to affect intangible, so it would no longer have to be so sloppy. The intermittent phasing thing was said back during the days of Geko. I...used to complain about it a lot. A lot of it was from us not knowing the details of how it worked. Nobody had bothered to divine its hidden machinations.
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Originally Posted by Redlynne
Actually, the Dimension Shift power COULD be converted into a Toggle ... but you'd need to live with a consequence of the power being an "intermittent" Phase power.
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I Dont have in mind a particular powerset that could be offered up as a number one candidate for this, but like others I have some general things to comment on.
First, why should there be a problem with shuffling around powers.
There are many powers that come too early and could be pushed to later in a build.
Others that come much later than when they would make a very sizable contribution.
If the devs moved a power (earlier or later) it would be the perfect excuse to boost up a power that needed improvement, and tone down one that might be a little too good.
Secondly, I agree with others on both Snipes and Nukes. I played around with both these when I was new to the game. I still try them now and again on new characters, but the fact remains (for me) that these powers are skippable because the downside outweighs the upside. These are perfect candidates for change IMO.
Finally, I think all Tier 9s need an overall concept and performance review.
The newest generation of Tier 9s have brought Crash-less Nukes and Semi-Unstoppable powers that cannot be enhanced for recharge.
The developers should decide what is the proper mechanic for a Tier 9 power and make it consistent. I dont mind that my powerset has a Crashing Nuke that much if everyone else suffers the same penalty.
Archery has become the most popular Blast set very quickly. Could RoA be the reason ?
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF