Dark Melee/Invulnerability against nine archvillains...
By
Aliana Blue,
Posted on: 2009-11-18 16:51 in Scrappers
Gratz! What map did you use?
Nerva Fountain Island. It's small and very open, with smooth height changes and obstacles to break LoS with, and the center area is devoid of any spawn, making it great as a herding spot.
Curse you, Nihiliiiiiiiiiii!!!!! *shakes fist*
Man, you just keep moving that bar higher and higher, don't you? Nice. I need to read and watch more carefully when I don't have company coming over. 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
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That is really amazing, and my math skills will never bee good enough to pull something like that off. But, do you remember when Regen was nerfed? It was because of things like this. That's not a dig, just saying remember the past to protect us from the future.
Again, Congratz on something super super cool. 
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Very impressive Nihilii. Enough said, great recount of the fight too hah.
@Possible
A couple of this, a couple of that.
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It's posts like this that force me to make a new alt. Thanks alot. I still don't have a level 50 hero cause of people like you!!
I took on both Crimson and Indigo at the same time Indigo was the easier of the two despite her increased ACC because of the Kat/ you could probably add her with only a slight increase to difficulty.
50's: Heroes: Ozmeth DB/WP; Black Decker DM/Regen; Shado-Strike DM/SR Scrapper (13 AV soloed); Desert-Shock Claws/Elec Scrapper; Shado-Shriek Dark/Son Def
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Gratz! That's very impressive. Can't wait to have the time to check the first part of the video.
As for everyone who's freaking out.... didn't ANYONE could do the crazy things regen could do? In this case, it's one person, with one of the best build, specialy costumized for that challenge that can do it. Unless anyone with a DM/invuln can start soloing 9 AVs, no reason to nerf it. =P (specialy considering all the post people keep making about "invuln sucks" or "DM sucks")
"It's a scrapper. If he can't handle it, no one can." -BrandX
i've got a DM/inv and i don't see me trying this any time....ever. there's a few reasons, but mostly its the 5+ billion investment.
It's been a long long time since I've noticed the devs tossing out a nerf in response to what we're capable of at the very top end. I think they're quite aware of what we can do, and they're doing the same things on their own characters. When Dual Blades/Willpower came out, was it Castle that was achieving a high success rate at the RWZ challenge BEFORE releasing it? If the devs are still suffering under any illusions of what the game they built allows, that would be sad.
Still. NINE. Sheesh. Maybe we DO need a nerf. Thanks, Nihilii. 
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
One thing to keep in mind is the whole AV selection is a balancing act. Crimson lacks any debuffs while Indigo can debuff your defense, as it is I was more or less at the right point with that (dipping around 45% occasionally but never under that) and I'm not sure I could handle more debuffs. Any damage over a certain threshold can break the whole thing too, as the probability of a bunch of them hitting fast enough to kill me increases.| I took on both Crimson and Indigo at the same time Indigo was the easier of the two despite her increased ACC because of the Kat/ you could probably add her with only a slight increase to difficulty. |
To illustrate, I had near to nil chances of losing once there were "only" 6 AVs left, but my life played yo-yo with 8 and 9 AVs. Which, again, seems crazy to me as it took so much effort to take on 6 AVs on my DB/inv.
Regardless, I wouldn't worry about nerfs based on anything like this. DM/inv is an AV soloing machine, but the lack of decent AoE (and yes, I did use Shadow Maul extensively from 2 to 50) makes the character not very effective to play in this day and age of missions set for 6 or 8 while solo, if performance is judged on rewards obtained over time.
This is also a Test server build specialized against S/L fighting specific S/L AVs in a specific mission with a specific custom group to fuel Soul Drain/Invincibility, or in other words a situation you'll never run into in the normal game for multiple reasons.
Still cool to do - now I can pretend it takes more than a full team of archvillains to... fail to take me down. Heh.
I learnt quite a few things from doing that, too.
I used to go for even numbers in typed defense - which made sense at first when I was aiming for 33% defense so that one luck could softcap me, but doesn't anymore since more IOs were introduced, allowing for much better values ; now I'm just going to plan F/C/E/N at 33%+ and S/L as close to the softcap as possible.
"Stealing" builds is fun. Now that I've done it to Aliana, maybe I should look at some Kat/DA goodness, especially with CoD not being a bother anymore...
Quote:
Werner, I agree they are done nerfing as a reaction to what the game can do, the sad part is that they will not consider reviewing some of the knee jerk decisions the old "vision" brought about. |
Originally Posted by Werner
It's been a long long time since I've noticed the devs tossing out a nerf in response to what we're capable of at the very top end. I think they're quite aware of what we can do, and they're doing the same things on their own characters. When Dual Blades/Willpower came out, was it Castle that was achieving a high success rate at the RWZ challenge BEFORE releasing it? If the devs are still suffering under any illusions of what the game they built allows, that would be sad.
Still. NINE. Sheesh. Maybe we DO need a nerf. Thanks, Nihilii. |
It is a superhero game, and what was done here was super, and SHOULD be achievable.
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Awesome job, Nihilii. I happily admit my jealousy at your achievement. Well farkin played.
Be well, people of CoH.
That's darn nice Nihilii. The best I've done so far with my Kat/Inv is 3 AVs at once but then I didnt have any Invincibility fuelers around. Might actually try a few more with some fuel and insps for herding the enemies around me.
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Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
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Woo, gz Nihilii!
Color me not impressed - a build built to handle s/l against hand picked s/l AVs with mobs standing around to fuel SD and invincibility just reiterates what everyone already knows : when the enemies match up to your strengths dealing with them is easy.
Try the same build against non s/l AVs and without mobs to buff SD/Invinc and the tune will not be so pretty. Invulnerability is anything but invulnerable when it comes to non s/l damage and the set relies heavily on invincibility to survive any serious incoming non s/l damage.
If you retune the build to handle non s/l damage, you could probably get similar results however.
I am an ebil markeeter and will steal your moneiz ...correction stole your moneiz. I support keeping the poor down because it is impossible to make moneiz in this game.
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
Color me not impressed - a build built to handle s/l against hand picked s/l AVs with mobs standing around to fuel SD and invincibility just reiterates what everyone already knows : when the enemies match up to your strengths dealing with them is easy.
Try the same build against non s/l AVs and without mobs to buff SD/Invinc and the tune will not be so pretty. Invulnerability is anything but invulnerable when it comes to non s/l damage and the set relies heavily on invincibility to survive any serious incoming non s/l damage. If you retune the build to handle non s/l damage, you could probably get similar results however. |
Quote:
I completely agree. Being only able to take on four exotic damage archvillains at a time on a non-DM invul scrapper is quite pathetic and I'm hoping the devs will take care of this problematic issue soon. Raising the resistance cap to 90% and removing the crash from Unstoppable should be a good, first step.| Invulnerability is anything but invulnerable when it comes to non s/l damage and the set relies heavily on invincibility to survive any serious incoming non s/l damage. |
Quote:
If they don't also add in ponies, then I still will cry foul |
Originally Posted by Nihilii
I completely agree. Being only able to take on four exotic damage archvillains at a time on a non-DM invul scrapper is quite pathetic and I'm hoping the devs will take care of this problematic issue soon. Raising the resistance cap to 90% and removing the crash from Unstoppable should be a good, first step.
|
"An army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of BS." -General George Patton
-Lord Azazel
Quote:
You're right. If you take out the best power in the set (invincibility) it does become much much weaker. Excellent observation.|
Originally Posted by Lohenien
Color me not impressed - a build built to handle s/l against hand picked s/l AVs with mobs standing around to fuel SD and invincibility just reiterates what everyone already knows : when the enemies match up to your strengths dealing with them is easy.
Try the same build against non s/l AVs and without mobs to buff SD/Invinc and the tune will not be so pretty. Invulnerability is anything but invulnerable when it comes to non s/l damage and the set relies heavily on invincibility to survive any serious incoming non s/l damage. If you retune the build to handle non s/l damage, you could probably get similar results however. |
And way to go Nihili! Maybe I ought to invest and try this build out on my own DM/invuln
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lohenien
Color me not impressed - a build built to handle s/l against hand picked s/l AVs with mobs standing around to fuel SD and invincibility just reiterates what everyone already knows : when the enemies match up to your strengths dealing with them is easy.
Try the same build against non s/l AVs and without mobs to buff SD/Invinc and the tune will not be so pretty. Invulnerability is anything but invulnerable when it comes to non s/l damage and the set relies heavily on invincibility to survive any serious incoming non s/l damage. If you retune the build to handle non s/l damage, you could probably get similar results however. |
Why not ask him to just attempt it with all his armors turned off?
And completely unenhanced?
Oh yeah, and from Rest!
Seriously, we're talking 9 AVs here. NINE FRICKING AVs!
How much further do you realistically want him to load the deck in the house's favor?
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Unbelievably cool Nihilii. Gratz to a fricking amazing feat!
Impressive. It reminds me that the first time I ever saw something genuinely impressive in-game first hand was also a DM/Invuln scrapper. He was soloing Creys Folly. As in the entire high end of the zone simultaneously. This ranks up there. Perhaps less impressive visually, but just as impressive in terms of pushing a build to its theoretical limits.
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Videos : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Specifics
I copied my DM/Invul scrapper to the Test server and respecced her to be sturdy against S/L, ignoring F/C/E/N.
Then, I made an AE mission with 9 AVs (Marauder, Bobcat, Mynx, Chimera, Shadowhunter, Foreshadow, Battle Maiden, Agent Crimson and Nemesis), and a custom group full of lieutenant wolves. My rep was set at +0/x8 (even level). I used empathy buffs to herd the AVs together to save time, and used two respites once the emp buffs expired while I had all nine AVs around so I could start the fight at full life. No external buffs, inspirations or temp powers were using during the fight.
It took me only two attempts, which is about the same number of tries I used on my DB/inv to take on... 4 AVs. It's very likely this build could take on 10 or 11 AVs ; DPS being over 200 if SD is saturated, adding Dominatrix would be an obvious choice, but it'd make for a pretty dull fight adding about half a hour if not more just to kill her at the end.
As it is, it already took 54 minutes, which is quite a long time to stare at a computer screen pressing the same hotkeys over and over !
Build
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hectmb-Dam%(45)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), RctvArm-ResDam(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(43)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(7), RctvArm-ResDam(37), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(7), Dct'dW-Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(43), Ksmt-ToHit+(46), SW-Def(48), SW-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(11), HO:Golgi(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(15), HO:Nucle(17), HO:Nucle(17)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Cloud-%Dam(45), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(40), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(19), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), Mrcl-Heal(23), RgnTis-Regen+(25), Mrcl-Rcvry+(25)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 24: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(27), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Armgdn-Dmg(29), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(31), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(31)
Level 28: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), HO:Enzym(43), HO:Enzym(45)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), HO:Enzym(39)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Dam%(37)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), DefBuff-I(40)
Level 38: Resist Energies -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Resist Elements -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 49: Focused Accuracy -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(46), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
It's way above the S/L softcap with 1 foe in range, allowing for a few defense debuffs to get through before it hurts. Dull Pain is up most of the time ; I tend to try to save it until I'm at 50% HP or lower. The attack chain while Hasten is up is Smite, MG, Smite, SL, SP, and while it's down is "whatever power is recharged". Endurance use is good enough to fight a whole hour and barely slow down. Whenever it was up, I tried to use Soul Drain instead of MG when I needed healing, and instead of SL when I needed to do damage. Focused Accuracy is left off most of the time ; I activate it either while CP is up if the AV I'm fighting has high defense, or just for one second right before activating Soul Drain to ensure it hits as many as possible.
Tactics
I started off with Mynx ; her crits make her unreliable, and not focusing on her right away is what got me killed during my first attempt. It was the most dangerous part as all nine AVs were alive attacking me, but I was relatively lucky and they never got to deal enough burst damage to take me down, although it was close at one point.
Foreshadow went next. He's got one energy attack and isn't particulary hard to beat, making him a logical choice. I got low on life for a relatively long time, and slipped up a bit with my attack chain. Nothing much to say.
I then went for Battle Maiden, her Headsplitter was worrying me.
Next in line : Crimson. At this point you can see the fight is basically won. Dull Pain sits unused in my tray for a full minute, and when it is finally activated, it's mostly out of convenience. Life hardly dips below full. The performance of this build on such a challenge feels kind of scary to me, as there's still 6 AVs left.
Now, Bobcat. As I didn't really risk losing by that point, I went to grab a few wolves to boost Soul Drain and speed up things a bit. This had the side effect of switching Nemesis to ranged AI, in which he likes to use Dispersion Bubble, but apart for a few deflected here and there it didn't bother me much. When Bobcat activates her God Mode, I switch to Shadowhunter to get him to use Earth Embrace (as I can't outdamage Bobcat's regen while she's in Unstop, I might as well wait for the crash). My own Dull Pain wasn't used at all.
Shadowhunter's Earth Embrace is almost gone when Bobcat drops. Between that and his negative resistance to negative damage, he hits the ground fast.
Nemesis is asking for it with his Dispersion Bubble, and I'm prompted to oblige. Chimera starts being useful and throws his plastic bow for a much better poisoned katana. Unfortunately, too little too late, and while I finally use DP, it's, again, out of convenience rather than anything else. Nemesis bubbles ; during that time, I hit Marauder to start making some progress, but that was pointless as he regens all of it back while I whack on Nemesis again once the bubble is gone. At some point, I get the right feeling and use SD right before the bubble drops, without timing it or anything, which was pretty cool. Then I start redacting this forum post in my head rather than focus on the fight, and proceed to waste SD right as he bubbles, which was pretty lame.
Despite that, Mr Bubbles goes down and it's time for Marauder to hit the dirt. I grab a few more canine friends for that purpose. By that point I'm relatively bored and hope it won't last too long. Alas, Marauder decides to crash at 75% HP (!). Kind of reminds me of those sore losers in RTS ranked matches who won't leave the game until you destroy every of their unit even though they lost any chance to win about twenty minutes ago, just to make you lose your time. CoH AI feels like human like sometimes...
Thankfully, I already switched to Chimera as soon as Marauder used Unstoppable. He went down without issues.
Finally, back to Marauder. He crashed at 10% the second time around. The end !
... A bit anticlimatic, but it feels good to have it done.