You should have asked here first. We would have told you that.
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Between Paragon wiki and these boards, I've learned so much and avoided so many pitfalls that aren't documented within the game itself.
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
You should have asked here first. We would have told you that.
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It would be good if they actually added it to the tutorial about invention sets IMO
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
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It's not the set or bonus amount that matters (although the former is more of a technicality) it's the set bonus name that matters.| I read up in paragons wiki about the rule of fives and it applies not only to the set name bit also the bonus amount ,in my case the 5% |
For normal set bonuses, yes this would be the amount, but globals give set bonuses, and even if the bonus is equal to an existing set bonus, the globals will generally have a unique name. So if you have five sets giving a 7.5% recharge bonus and five LotG: Global Recharge IOs (also each 7.5% recharge) those would stack because each source has a different name (the LotG ones are named "Luck of the Gambler recharge bonus").
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Yes it would.
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Originally Posted by Tired Angel
It would be good if they actually added it to the tutorial about invention sets IMO
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I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
I learned of this from using Mid's, so none of my plans for live ever were effected. Otherwise I totally would've done it, but unlike you have never even noticed my #s weren't what I expected 
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In theory, yes. In practice, there are so many details like this that the tutorial would have so much text the vast majority of people would not read any of it.|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
It would be good if they actually added it to the tutorial about invention sets IMO
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You lose your set bonuses if you exemp more than 3 levels below the level of the IO.
Some uniques act like set bonuses and some don't, but you lose the bonus if you lose the power.
Except purples, where you never lose the bonus.
Unless you do an Ouro arc with the 'No Enhancements' challenge setting.
ugh.
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If adding this to the invention tutorial would make it too long, there's always the option of adding a second, advanced tutorial just to explain everything about set bonuses, exemplar effects on set IOs, and procs and special IOs.
I've never liked that things like this are only documented on ParagonWiki. The game should explain and document its own features.
The basic problem is the same one encountered with just about any consumer product. Most people do not read the manual until they encounter a problem that forces them to do so. The Devs could add an NPC that explains everything in excruciating detail but however it's implemented most people will not bother to read it until they encounter something that they can't figure out on their own.
While I agree that it would be good if this stuff was documented in game for complicated subjects like this reading about it on a wiki (with links and cross-referencing) is easier than trying to read NPC dialog in game anyway.
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Maybe update the ingame help files and have the IO tutorial refer to it. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
In theory, yes. In practice, there are so many details like this that the tutorial would have so much text the vast majority of people would not read any of it.
You lose your set bonuses if you exemp more than 3 levels below the level of the IO. Some uniques act like set bonuses and some don't, but you lose the bonus if you lose the power. Except purples, where you never lose the bonus. Unless you do an Ouro arc with the 'No Enhancements' challenge setting. ugh. |
In an ideal world, all this stuff should be in the ingame help. The less there is, the less people bother to check ingame help.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
The basic problem is the same one encountered with just about any consumer product. Most people do not read the manual until they encounter a problem that forces them to do so. The Devs could add an NPC that explains everything in excruciating detail but however it's implemented most people will not bother to read it until they encounter something that they can't figure out on their own.
While I agree that it would be good if this stuff was documented in game for complicated subjects like this reading about it on a wiki (with links and cross-referencing) is easier than trying to read NPC dialog in game anyway. |
Theres a big difference between people not caring to find read the manual to the manual not having the information for people who do read it.
Regardless of what prompts someone to read the manual (at first or when they encouter a problem), the infomation still needs to be there.
I don't suffer from altitis, I enjoy every minute of it.
Thank you Devs & Community people for a great game.
So sad to be ending ):
It is a layers of details thing
I read the boards slot
I read paragonwiki alot
I have over two years of playing the game experience
I use mids to plan build
I get build advice from the board gurus
I am aware of things like the rule of five
but still not aware of the rule within the rule
I was not making a post to gripe about the game
I was posting to add to the community knowledge base by highlighting my own mistake
sort of saying "look out there is a pile of doo doo here don't step in it" while I waste 2 more respec and millions more to wipe said doo doo off my shoe
Laserblitz
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If you see a rainbow costume or named "Emcc" it is me
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There's actually A TON of crap that's in the game that's not documented anywhere inside the game itself. I fear for newbies who are leaping into things like IOs, or heck even regular enhancements, not knowing what stuff does. I have some newbie friends that I have to explain things to, like ED or how accuracy/ToHit works, or what beginner's luck is, or or how defense works.|
Originally Posted by Tired Angel
It would be good if they actually added it to the tutorial about invention sets IMO
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Honestly I think there should be an in-game popup in big yellow/orange/red letters explaining that what you're slotting is not going to do anything thanks to the rule of five. Something like, when you go to slot that 5th piece of Red Fortune, you get:
NOTE: Slotting this bonus (5% recharge bonus) exceeds the "rule of five" in which you cannot have more than five of the same type of bonus slotted on one character. You may continue to slot this piece and benefit from the enhancement increases, but the set bonus associated with this enhancement WILL NOT contribute to your character's stats.
Obviously pretty wordy. Not my department. And might be "too late" if someone already bought stuff and is slotting it. But it's better than nothing. Though I do agree it should be in a tutorial somewhere.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
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Really? They would stack? That's awesome, I never knew that. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
It's not the set or bonus amount that matters (although the former is more of a technicality) it's the set bonus name that matters.
For normal set bonuses, yes this would be the amount, but globals give set bonuses, and even if the bonus is equal to an existing set bonus, the globals will generally have a unique name. So if you have five sets giving a 7.5% recharge bonus and five LotG: Global Recharge IOs (also each 7.5% recharge) those would stack because each source has a different name (the LotG ones are named "Luck of the Gambler recharge bonus"). |
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Read this.
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Originally Posted by SoulSpark
Really? They would stack? That's awesome, I never knew that. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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What is this supposed to mean?|
Originally Posted by Laserblitz_Emcc
It is a layers of details thing
but still not aware of the rule within the rule |
There is only ONE attribute that matters for the Rule of Five, and as has been stated above, that is the NAME of the bonus (large recharge bonus, or tiny recovery bonus, etc.).
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Neither.|
Originally Posted by Laserblitz_Emcc
I read up in paragons wiki about the rule of fives and it applies not only to the set name bit also the bonus amount ,in my case the 5%
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It applies to the Name of the Bonus.
Read this section right under The Law of Fives.
You can only have, for example, five "Large Recharge Bonuses". The Set names are irrelevant. The amount of a Large Recharge Bonus is irrelevant. Castle can tweak things so that, using a hypothetical situation, PvP IO Sets give a Large Recharge Bonus of 5% and non-PvP IO Sets give a Large Recharge Bonuses of 7.25%, but in the end, you can only have five Large Recharge Bonuses. If you have 2 PvP Large Recharge Bonuses at 5% and 3 non-PvP Large Recharge Bonuses at 7.25%, then you can't add any more Large Recharge Bonuses regardless of the amount of recharge it grants.
It goes only by the name of the bonus.
That's why you can have 5 Luck of the Gambler Bonuses (it says 'Luck of the Gambler Bonus') each at 7.25% and 5 'Large Recharge Bonuses' each at 7.25% because the *names of the bonus* are different.
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If anything there needs to be a help listing that details all the "gotchas" in invention sets. Things like a set needs to be in the same power, duplicates from the same set aren't allowed to be slotted in the same power, powers accept only certain groups of invention sets and a set lists the group it belongs to and of course the rule of five. Advance topics include how and when they function when exemplared, when procs work (toggle vs click power) and that unique means unique.
Problem is the whole invention system is built around the idea that IOs are entirely optional and when used are only meant to make your character even more unique than that guy standing next to you. Of course those who love to play with the numbers have turn the system into a means where their character is now a tiny god and you wish to be one too.
Reminds me how the developers of Magic The Gathering didn't imagine that people would buy entire cases of booster packs so they could build decks entirely of rares.
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No reason that highly detailed information can't be menued by clicking on a bookshelf in the university.
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What's the problem? IOs are still optional. They still make your character more unique (personally, I think one great success of the IO system is that no two builds are exactly identical, even if they have the same build goals). If people are pathetic enough to be jealous of the fact that someone else has more videogame monopoly money and digital loot, then they should take a serious look at their own priorities in life. What does poor in-game documentation have anything to do with "those who love to play with numbers"?|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Problem is the whole invention system is built around the idea that IOs are entirely optional and when used are only meant to make your character even more unique than that guy standing next to you.Of course those who love to play with the numbers have turn the system into a means where their character is now a tiny god and you wish to be one too.
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It never ceases to amaze me how so-called "casual" gamers find a way to pin the blame for anything and everything on others who enjoy the same game they do.
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Well, when they printed eleventy bajillion of one expansion set (I think it was Fallen Empires), the per case price took a nosedive. It was silly to NOT buy them by the case. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Reminds me how the developers of Magic The Gathering didn't imagine that people would buy entire cases of booster packs so they could build decks entirely of rares.
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Besides, I was really keen on all those fungus dudes (Thorn Thallid, Feral Thallid, Fungal Bloom, etc).
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Or the info terminal kiosks all over the city, which currently have ZERO functionality.
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Originally Posted by GPBunny
No reason that highly detailed information can't be menued by clicking on a bookshelf in the university.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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I'm not blaming power players or IOs, I think IOs are a marvelous addition to the game.|
Originally Posted by Laevateinn
What's the problem? IOs are still optional. They still make your character more unique (personally, I think one great success of the IO system is that no two builds are exactly identical, even if they have the same build goals). If people are pathetic enough to be jealous of the fact that someone else has more videogame monopoly money and digital loot, then they should take a serious look at their own priorities in life. What does poor in-game documentation have anything to do with "those who love to play with numbers"?
It never ceases to amaze me how so-called "casual" gamers find a way to pin the blame for anything and everything on others who enjoy the same game they do. |
It's just that all the rules and limitations that deal with IO sets are simply to complex to present is a simple tutorial or even a help system. There are a number of ParagonWiki pages devoted to all the "gotchas" and exceptions. The system is considerably more complex than simply collecting all the pieces of an epic set of armor and is more like rune combos that create secondary effects in Diablo II or Horadric Cube recipes beyond those told to you by Cain.
The idea of an area in the library that contains this information is a good idea, you could be directed to it if you visit one of the tutorial contacts after you finish the original invention system tutorial.
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I just discoved a detail in the rules of five for IO set bonus
I was shooting for aax recharge build on my regen scrapper
I put in five doctor wounds each with 5% rc bonus
plus five other sets that each had a 5% rc bonus
I was hoping for a permanent 50%rc bonus without using purple sets
I respec and check my combat atributes and it was only 25%
I read up in paragons wiki about the rule of fives and it applies not only to the set name bit also the bonus amount ,in my case the 5%
grrrrrrr wasted respec and IMF buy a lot of IO I now need to replace
let this be a warning to you
the devil is in the details
Castle invented this detail
thus Castle is the devil ;-)
Laserblitz
"Kicking digital a$$ and taking "trademarked by NCsoft" names since 2007"
If you see a rainbow costume or named "Emcc" it is me