Peacebringer: Stated versus Apparent Design

Sorry about the garbled post - what I was trying to say is that the perception seems to be that a Peace Bringer is a 'mercy spot' on a task force. Its that last guy you scape up because he is the only person interested.

The same does not apply to a Warshade who can stealth some tedious bits and TP the team to missions and end bosses as well as doing very substantial damage when offered large spawns to drain.

I would guess that the vast majorty if players don't have a clue what cosmic balance does or give a damn about it.

When a team needs a tank the probably don't shearch for Peace Bringers. When a team needs a Damage dealer they don't search for Peace Bringers. When a team needs a support role they don't search for Peace Bringers.

So Peace Bringers can either form teams or solo.

Exactly. And even solo, a PB can feel pretty sub-par.

Case in point: Bill Z Bubba is the one who had me do the +4x8 Arachnos test with VestigeOne in the first place, and he also asked that I do the same with my PB, "AlienOne."

I just tried it tonight, and although I used the same strategy as I did with VestigeOne (accolades, full tray of insp, etc.), there were still 2 left standing in that mob when all the "uber" stuff dropped, and I was downed in basically one hit.

Pretty frustrating, especially when your PB is purp'd out.

I've also got that on video, but it's 3:30am at this point, so I'm going to wait to try and get it on YouTube.

"Alien"

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Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Man, busy point in the semester for a good thread to get going. Anyway, Joe basically said what I was arguing for in my long post, I just talked about a lot more to do it. I agree that something needs to happen, but a straight damage buff to human form isn't enough/isn't really addressing the root problem.

That's why I tried to mention more specific things in my post. There are clear problem powers for Peacebringers that could easily be tweaked, making them and the AT work more effectively. On top of wat I recommended earlier, I rather wonder if people would like having the buffs we earn from the team lowered, in return from a greater base power? I'm not sure how they would go about balancing that out, but that might help address the "solo versus teamed" disparity some.

I also would still really like to know what the reasoning is behind the long animation change to Nova or Dwarf. It's constantly pointed out, and really does hang things up for a shifting AT. If they don't want to do away with that, it would be nice if we could access some human form powers while in the forms, too.

So I guess that's what I'm arguing for: improvements that are going to tackle the more specific issues Peacebringers, and then Kheldians have.

I'm not saying Peace Bringers get booted from task forces, just that they are not particulary sought after, strange for a supposedly team based archtype.

I guess they are about as desirable as a scrapper, maybe slightly less, like a second tank.

Peace Bringers would be a great team asset if they had access to a 'fulcrum shift' type power. (from zeroes to heroes in one move)

Who wouldn't be a great team asset if they had a 'Fulcrum Shift' type power? Sure, it'd be nice, but plenty of players manage to be assets without such a power. All non-Kineticists, in fact.

I'm not sure, but Star Seer may be referring to force multiplication. This is one area of the generalist spectrum that Kheldians do not cover. They have no significant debuffs or buffs and so cannot fill a force multiplier role on a team the way a Defender, Controller, Corruptor or Mastermind can. In order to truly be a generalist AT I'd like to see some sort of force multiplication powers added, but in practical terms I'm not sure what I'd be willing to give up to get it or where it'd fit into the current setup for Khelds.

In short, it'd be nice to have, but I'm uncertain how/if it would work with the AT as it stands now.

I'm purely a novice, when it comes to Kheldians, I have one Human-form PB that's 30 and the rest are all around 10, but reading this excellent analysis got me thinking in some weird ways...

And, while I doubt it's a completely original idea, I had these thoughts...

Nova form is 'Assault' (from Leadership) - a simple toggle Damage buff (and WSs trade TP for Fly). Even the attacks are named the same. And, of course, the shapechange has no arms, so it gives up Melee attacks.

Dwarf form is the opposite, a Resistance buff, with melee powers, instead of blasts, and trading Fly for Teleport.

So, why couldn't they be changed to behave just like that - Additive to the 'Prime' form, instead of a complete replacement? It would certainly ease the slotting issue!!

And it might be Overpowered. And it would almost certainly enrage the forms-dancers, who have mastered the art of layering the multiple instances of the various attacks.

But why couldn't it be that simple?

Be Well!
Fireheart

Since VEATs recently gained an extra power in their patron pools how about adding a fulcum shift clone to PBs at 38, call it Lunimous Flux and give it a nice graphic. Add a tar patch clone to warshades and call it Stygian Slime or somthing.

Bill,

Bravo on your opening post. A most cogent discussion on Peacebringers. I switched to human-only Peacebringers in part for many of the points you've articulated. And I readily agree: fun though I find them to be, Peacebringers could use a boost to put them on a par with Warshades (not to mention VEATs).

You initially suggested a damage boost, and while this would be nice, I think it muddies the water with the Nova's damage specialty. The current suggestion seems now to be -Res rather than -Def on attacks.

Might I suggest something else?

Here are the parameters as discussed in this thread:

1) Dwarf form's specialty is Resistance
2) Nova form's specialty is Damage
3) Human form's specialty should be something unique to the other two forms
4) Peacebringers should add something to the team
5) Khelds should be jack-of-all-trades, not quite a tank, not quite a blaster, not quite a scrapper
6) Cottage rule: no replacing powers (minor alterations as per past dev changes allowed)

and I'd add my own parameter:

7) Change should be thematic and explainable in game terms.


My suggested change for a Peacebringer specialty would be this: Endurance.

• Peacebringers would start out with a bonus amount of total Endurance points, say 110 points instead of 100.
• Add a +Recovery aura of 8% for each human-form shield type for a total of 24% +Recovery with all three shields running. Aura radius distance would be similar to Shield Defense or SoA team bonuses. No slotting for additional End Recovery. It's a fixed amount. Bonus doesn't function while the Peacebringer is mezzed.
• Cosmic balance would stand as is.
• Work in the discussed -Res instead of -Def attack effect change, but only for Nova and Dwarf form attacks. (I'm not quite sold on this discussed -Res change, but include it here as a possibililty.)


This fits the parameters thusly:

1) Dwarf form is still your +Res form.

2) Nova is still your +Damage form.

3) Human form now has a unique specialty... giving +Recovery to the team (and self), allowing it scrap/blast for still significantly less damage compared to either other Kheld forms or standard ATs, but longer sustained combat.

4) One of the reasons SoA are popular are the team bonus auras. This change replicates that. Human form Peacebringers will add something to the team: +Recovery, but an overpowered bonus. Like everything else, you're not quite a Kin. The amount is less than half of Speed Boost. It's a constant bonus (as long as the shields are up and the PB's not mezzed), but it's a radius so that not all the team will be boosted at the same time. It's split up with the three shields so that it takes a significant amount of endurance to run for full effect and it requires three power choices in the already notoriously tight Kheld AT builds for the max +Recovery effect.

If you add the -Res replacement to Nova/Dwarf attacks, the forms would also add to the team as well.

5) Peacebringers would still be jack-of-all-master-of-none. In addition, these changes wouldn't overshadow any other AT sets. Bonus Base Endurance would not perform Regen or Willpower, and the +Recovery of shields would not outperform Speed Boost or AM.

6) Cottage rule holds. The +Endurance points change initial stats, not a power. Fiddling with base AT stats has been done before. The +Recovery aura addition to an existing power is not too dissimilar to the additional powers given to existing Electric Armor or Energy Armor powers recently.

7) This change is thematic and explainable in game terms. Humans are the most compatible hosts Khelds have found. More of their internal energies can be processed and used by the human host better than any other planetary race. This is reflected in the glowing eyes discharge of excess energies. We can even transmit some of that excess power to others nearby. Humans have evolved to be generalists, not specialists; it's our species' strength. Hence, human-form Khelds can blast like novas, melee and resist damage like Dwarfs ... only just not quite as good.

I think these changes would address the problems discussed in this thread, would make the Peacebringer unique and valuable to teams, boost it to a par with Warshades, and fix a problem Peacebringer have of lacking Warshade's multiple +End recovery attacks for Endurance management. These changes would be usable solo as well as on a team, a plus in my book.
.

Ahh, how cute. I wonder which spineless ******** left me this piece of neg rep for my OP:

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Still pulling numbers and "theories" out of his ***. This player is either too egotistical to understand hes causing harm or too stupid to just stop.

I'm only egotistical because I'm better than you at everything.

And it's probably a good idea to learn how to use punctuation prior to questioning someone else's intelligence.

One note for people proposing ideas. Kheldians are not VEATs. Nor are they Kins. The devs aren't ever going to make them that way (cottage rule again), and it would be a terrible idea if they did do it. If you like VEATs, play a VEAT: making every other class into one is not a good thing, it makes the game bland and play the same.

Kheldians can be improved in ways that keep them unique and what they are. It is is possible. But it really hampers things when people keep having such unrealistic expectations for them.

One of the better ideas I saw in here that works within the constraints of the Kheldian AT would be lowering the def debuff and adding some resistance debuff (though people belittle that def debuff far too easily... I know I was able to focus less on accuracy for my PB for most of his powers, since I slotted for good accuracy with my openers, and relied on that def debuff to carry over for the other powers). So keep thinking along those lines, as well as keeping all approaches to Khelds open (human form only, dual, and tri forms).

I also wonder if some more things could happen if caps were instituted. If Human form had a lower resistance cap than Dwarf, could you give it some mez resistance and health? etc. Same thing for the cosmic balance modifiers, etc. No time to think about it more while at work, but just throwing it out there.

cool ideas being tossed about here, i am loving the one about adding -res to the attacks...


as it is, WS's have slow and -rech, why cant PBs have -def and -res? (perhaps 10% for each).


Also, just a little nit-pick: You said that a Human PB (outside of Light Form) is just about as tough as a dwarf form, with more damage looking at just Resists alone.

You forgot to add in +hp and using Essence Boost while in Dwarf, if my math is correct, with fully slotted powers the dwarf is about 40% tougher