Peacebringer: Stated versus Apparent Design

Agreed 1000 percent, although I'm not completely sure why we've gone off on a tangent with Warshades in a topic about improving Peacebringers.

The problem with the dual effect idea of -def and -res is that the -def in the attacks right now is (off the top of my head, which isn't the most reliable place) on average around 10%-11%. Insert a grain of salt here on behalf of my sieve-like memory. So if we give 10% on average to BOTH -def and -res, then it's likely going to be too much for Castle and co. to swallow. If we suggest an overall COMBINED debuff of -10% that splits it 5/5 between -def and -res then the stacking might not be so effective, and the improvement to PB's would be less than we'd like.

I don't have the time right now to crunch the numbers to figure out an attack chain that factors in the 5% resistance debuff with current durations and recharges, so I really couldn't say one way or the other whether that would be enough net gain to improve performance.

Then again, if that 10% average -res that would theoretically be added to what we now have were unenhanceable, then I can easier see it happening.

The only PB human form self buff that doesn't carry over into the forms for longer than a few seconds is build up, as Boost Essence and Conserve Power both last a fairly long time.

Although - and I might get flamed for saying this - I'm quite alright with a 15 second duration to Build Up, even with 3 seconds of it eaten up shifting to nova. Three seconds will only give you one extra attack, at best. The main problem isn't the duration of the buff, it's that you must shift down to human form to use it, and because it's a short duration on a medium recharge, if you try to use it every time it's up you end up spending ALOT of time switching from form to form, and it becomes counter-productive.

What I'd like to see on the table is an increased damage/tohit buff given to the power to compensate for its limited use in the forms. Give me a massive burst of damage at the outset that balances out the loss of time shifting form.

But if a human modifier increase were given to both PB and WS then it wouldn't do anything to address the disparity between the classes. Warshades don't really need any help IMHO. That's why I felt a modifier increase was problematic in the first place - it's hard to justify increasing one modifier without increasing the other.

Looking at the powers would go a long way towards evening the two classes, but you do us Peacebringers a disservice when you compare Photon Seekers to Unchain Essence. Photon Seekers should always be compared to the other level 32 Kheldian pet, Extracted Essence.

Unchain Essence is a PBAOE that is available at 26, and should be compared to Solar Flare.

In fact, let's do that right now.

Photon Seekers are available at 32, and is a pet class power.
Extract Essence is available at 32, and is a pet class power.

Photon Seekers have only one attack, which is a self destruct.
Extract Essence has three attacks: Shadow Blast, Shadow Bolt, and Gravitic Emanation (a damage cone, NOT the stunning kind)

Photon Seekers gives you three pets with one summon.
Extract Essence gives you one.

Photon Seekers has a long enough recharge to make stacking the pet summons impossible.
Extract Essence has a very stackable friendly recharge, with hasten/slotting giving you two and three pets out at a time.

Photon Seekers last 60 seconds.
Extract Essence lasts 200 seconds.

Photon Seekers does 91.2 Energy Damage x3 for 273.6 points of unenhanced damage.
Extracted Essence, assuming a seven to eight second attack chain of SBolt, SBlast, SBolt, SBolt (excluding Grav Em due to the murky difference between it and its namesake and due to a 45 second recharge) will increase a WS dps by around 28dps, or doing a total of 225-ish points of damage every 8 seconds, or - seen in terms of total damage output per summon, >5000 points of damage, provided the WS is in combat for 200 continuous seconds (which is unlikely). And that's just one fluffy. And take those figures with a huge grain of salt, given that I'm typing in somewhat of a hurry and didn't think the attack chain through very long.

The disparity between these two powers is obscene, but that's old news. The problem is that Photon Seekers feels and plays like a PBAOE, and so is always being compared to the next closed thing: Unchain Essence, which is unfair.

I should point out that this is looking at these powers in a vacuum - at hardly any time during normal play will you ever be in combat for 200 continuous seconds (mothership raid, AV's, ITF, maybe). Nonetheless, the disparity is still huge.

Suggestions have been made to increase the damage of Photon Seekers and/or shorten the recharge, but what I would like to have is the duration and recharge equal to that of Unchain Essence. In fact, I think the recharge should be even shorter. Don't make the pet stackable like the fluffies (after all, you do get three) but make it so that you can have them up with more consistency. Even perma, should they stick around for that long (Which is doubtful).



Now, on to Unchain Essence:

Solar Flare is a PBAOE available at level 26.
Unchain Essence is a PBAOE available at level 26.

Solar Flare does 67.12 Energy Damage.
Unchain Essence does 115.67 Negative Energy Damage.

Solar Flare has a 20 second recharge.
Unchain Essence has a 240 second recharge.
So in the time Unchain essence can be fired off twice for 480 points of damage, Solar flare can be fired off 12 times for a total of 805.44 points of damage.

Seen in a vacuum, they're pretty well balanced. But how often during the course of normal play are you going to be in combat for 240 straight seconds? No, if like the disparity between Fluffies and Seekers can be closed somewhat by looking at them in terms of normal play, the disparity between these two powers is widened when a normal spawn will feel only one Unchain Essence and maybe two solar flares.

And none of this takes into account the fact that Negative Energy damage is less resisted than Energy damage.

The late twenties and early thirties are where Warshades start to really outperform Peacebringers, and these four powers are part of the reason why.


Agreed, and your suggestion is a good one.

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

That 10% figure was picked out of my a*s to be fair, but aim for the stars and you might land on the moon

I think the modifier increase would help PB's over WS's because they use more melee attacks, and while it would help WS's too it would overall bring them closer I think.

The main reason for this change isn't to bring them closer however, it is make human form more useful. The power changes are what should be used to close the gap with Warshades.

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Ah. Then we're on the same page. I've heard others make the comparison before, though. Hence the perceived need on my end to correct it.

Princess Darkstar - Proud Member of the Handprints of Union, the #1 ranked SG in Europe!
British by act of union, English by grace of God, Northern by pure good fortune!

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..