New Epic Power Pools For GR?
By
AquaJAWS,
Posted on: 2009-11-03 13:35 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
From what's been stated so far, I believe at level 20 you get booted out of Praetoria, making the question moot.
I hope that changes. Depending on how good looking the new zones really are, some of us might just wish to stay there until 50.
However, it doesn't appear that this will be the case at all.
Mmmm... brutes with conserve power and physical perfection. That'll be nice.
Be well, people of CoH.
Posi did say that post level X, Heroes and Villains would be able to go to Praetoria to do the side-swapping.
So while there may be level 50 content available, I think it's unlikely that there will be APPs/PPPs associated with it.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Quote:
It's not moot. From what we've been told, it seems it'll be very possible to permanently move a Brute over to blueside long before getting to 40. Would he then have no epics available at all?
|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
From what's been stated so far, I believe at level 20 you get booted out of Praetoria, making the question moot.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
I have a feeling that villains will still be stuck with PPP selections without the actual "patron".
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
It's not moot. From what we've been told, it seems it'll be very possible to permanently move a Brute over to blueside long before getting to 40. Would he then have no epics available at all?
|
Quote:
This would be my guess as well. Which will be an interesting fudge. "Ghost Widow had given you the powers of Darkness. Even though you've never met her". Maybe there will be a "reformed patron" ported to Hero side to make it work, an ex-follower of each Patron with no missions who just lets you learn each by talking to them.|
Originally Posted by Midnight_Frost
I have a feeling that villains will still be stuck with PPP selections without the actual "patron".
|
The alternative would be to map Hero EPPs to the reformed villains using some sort of AT to AT mapping, Brutes to Scrappers (ew), MMs to Tanks (both are fairly meh), Domis to Controllers (issues with a fair few duplicate powers, but it'd rock), Stalkers to Blasters (again it'd be a bit weird, Stalkers with PFF?), Corrupters to Defenders (pretty nice).
Quote:
I was thinking the same thing but to me the AT's just don't match up right to make that work.
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
The alternative would be to map Hero EPPs to the reformed villains using some sort of AT to AT mapping, Brutes to Scrappers (ew), MMs to Tanks (both are fairly meh), Domis to Controllers (issues with a fair few duplicate powers, but it'd rock), Stalkers to Blasters (again it'd be a bit weird, Stalkers with PFF?), Corrupters to Defenders (pretty nice).
|
Quote:
I'm thinking Brute-Tank, Scrapper-Stalker, Controller-MM, Blaster-Dominator, Corruptor-Defender is the way that this would pan out.
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
The alternative would be to map Hero EPPs to the reformed villains using some sort of AT to AT mapping, Brutes to Scrappers (ew), MMs to Tanks (both are fairly meh), Domis to Controllers (issues with a fair few duplicate powers, but it'd rock), Stalkers to Blasters (again it'd be a bit weird, Stalkers with PFF?), Corrupters to Defenders (pretty nice).
|
Quote:
They'll have access to APPs. Whether the devs will shoehorn in the existing APPs or not remains a question, but I'm betting that's exactly what happens as has been stated by others.|
Originally Posted by Dispari
It's not moot. From what we've been told, it seems it'll be very possible to permanently move a Brute over to blueside long before getting to 40. Would he then have no epics available at all?
|
brute get tank
stalker get scrapper
cor get defender
dom get controller
mm get blaster
Maybe. Or not.
Maybe a whole new set of 40+ power pools get created that will be better or worse for each AT.
EDIT: MF's idea, for example, that as a hero brute, you just unlock PPPs without having to go through the villain arcs to unlock them would probably be the easiest road to take considering that they've already tossed out the whole backstory by letting villains respec into whatever pool they want.
Be well, people of CoH.
My dream would be for new APPs to be created following the PPP rules.
That is to say, I want a Fire APP with Fireball, Fire Blast and Fire Cages for my SS/FA brute >.>
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
Quote:
MMs with Blaster pools would be pretty darn nice! Much better than the dross they get now.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
They'll have access to APPs. Whether the devs will shoehorn in the existing APPs or not remains a question, but I'm betting that's exactly what happens as has been stated by others.
brute get tank stalker get scrapper cor get defender dom get controller mm get blaster Maybe. Or not. Maybe a whole new set of 40+ power pools get created that will be better or worse for each AT. |
Brutes getting Tank (or Scrapper) pools makes me sad though.
Quote:
In my head I would probably swap around Dom to have Blaster and MM to have Controller. Other than that, it's a FAIRLY straightforward port. There would be a few duplicates, but they can work that out in the process.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
brute get tank
stalker get scrapper cor get defender dom get controller mm get blaster |
My expectation is that they'll get APPs, and that blue ATs going redside will still get the same APPs they've always had. Somewhere down the line, maybe in a later issue, we'll get PPPs for redside blues, and maybe even PPPs for everyone blueside. APPs are the logical first step though, because they can follow you anywhere, not being tied to any missions or story.
It'd also be neat to have it so everyone automatically gets APPs when they hit 40 and ALREADY have a nice selection of epics to pick from, but can go one step extra and unlock PPPs to have even more. Would also be a nice solution for those of us who hate dropping everything to grind out PPP arcs every time we hit 40.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
I would like to see a complete overhaul of the APP/PPP system. There's just far too much garbage in all of them and the power orders are often illogical (see scrapper body mastery.)
I know all about the cottage rule, but sometimes it really is better to demolish the building and replace it.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
I disagree with replacing any powers. They already tried that, and it lead to tons of drama and outrage and them doing the 5th power thing. I'd rather they revisit the power unlocks by changing it so you don't have to have so many prereqs or wait until 47 to get things. I feel as though epics should feel, well, epic and not just be another lame prereq fest, especially so late in your career.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I would like to see a complete overhaul of the APP/PPP system. There's just far too much garbage in all of them and the power orders are often illogical (see scrapper body mastery.)
I know all about the cottage rule, but sometimes it really is better to demolish the building and replace it. |
And there are far worse outliers than Body Mastery. Controller epics have their AoE attacks coming anywhere from 41 (instant unlock/use) to 47 (requiring two powers and faced with a shortage of slots). Plus Blaster Elec which for no apparent reason gets its tier 9 power at 44 while Force has to wait until 47. And the one that bugs me the most, that villains get armors at 41 while heroes get theirs at 44. Of course, villains also usually have to wait until 47 for holds, while most heroes get them at 41. *shrug* v
vI'd rather see the tier system die entirely, or at the very least go to a 2-tier instead of 3-tier, than have any drama unload from having powers replaced. Only good things can come out of having powers available earlier with less requirements. Lots of bad things can come from replacing or reordering powers.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Dispari has more than enough credability, and certainly doesn't need to borrow any from you.
|
Quote:
Nothing wrong with Body Mastery. It follows the Scrapper order of:|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
I would like to see a complete overhaul of the APP/PPP system. There's just far too much garbage in all of them and the power orders are often illogical (see scrapper body mastery.)
I know all about the cottage rule, but sometimes it really is better to demolish the building and replace it. |
utility/hold
utility/hold
ST blast/5th power added later
AoE Blast
The only thing that's annoying is that the fifth power for Body, Physical Perfection, is awesome and everyone wants it at 41, but instead it's at 44 like all the other 5th powers added later.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
That order is the problem. And it's not just a problem for Body Mastery. Why is targeting drone tier 2 and focused accuracy tier 1 when they're identical buffs? Why is Nightfall using the scrapper ranged damage modifier when all the rest of them use the melee modifier?
That's two examples. Just for scrappers. What percentage of scrappers out there use the APPs at all? Of those, what's the % breakdown for each APP?
The devs felt the need to make changes to the APPs. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that the changes made any substantial difference in their use.
Burn it down. Start from scratch. Let's get some logic and fairness in place instead of the mess we have now.
Be well, people of CoH.
Quote:
Targeting Drone was Tier 1 in beta. When they first made the changes, they took powers away that only a small percentage used. People howled and the devs decided that instead each pool would just have an ADDITIONAL power added to the pool. |
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
That order is the problem. And it's not just a problem for Body Mastery. Why is targeting drone tier 2 and focused accuracy tier 1 when they're identical buffs? Why is Nightfall using the scrapper ranged damage modifier when all the rest of them use the melee modifier?
|
The problem with that is that some powers should have been T1 (like Targeting Drone) and others should have been T2 or T3 (e.g. Energy Torrent for Controllers). So the devs decided to split the difference and make all of the new powers T2.
Quote:
|
That's two examples. Just for scrappers. What percentage of scrappers out there use the APPs at all? Of those, what's the % breakdown for each APP? The devs felt the need to make changes to the APPs. I find it HIGHLY unlikely that the changes made any substantial difference in their use. Burn it down. Start from scratch. Let's get some logic and fairness in place instead of the mess we have now. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Quote:
Maybe Praetorian versions of the patrons maybe for the reformed villain archetypes. Not expecting patrons for the heroic archetypes. Or maybe they'll just do away with patrons at all and make them all ancillary pools and give us 4 new task forces.
|
Originally Posted by Carnifax
This would be my guess as well. Which will be an interesting fudge. "Ghost Widow had given you the powers of Darkness. Even though you've never met her". Maybe there will be a "reformed patron" ported to Hero side to make it work, an ex-follower of each Patron with no missions who just lets you learn each by talking to them..
|
I'd like them to add generic APPs to villain side, and MPPs* (Mentor Power Pools) to hero side. That way Villains get access to unrestricted pools and heroes get access to themed pools.
Doing it this way means that Rogues/Vigilantes can get access to their AT specific APPs no matter what side they're on, and MPPs/PPPs can be unlocked for your AT based on whatever side you do it for.
Each Patron would of course need to have hero AT specific pools created for them, just as Signature Heroes would need AT specific pools made for all (non-kheldians) ATs.
(While on that topic, can we get APPs(or MPPs) for Kheldians please? Veats have just as many powers as Kheldians, aren't restricted from the Fly or Teleport pools, and still get Patrons.)
*It's not uncommon for Established Superheroes to take a young up-n-comer under their wing, and it would fit for Redeemed villains as an upstanding, well respected Hero saying "Hey, it's cool. He/she's with me."
I'm kind of agnostic, at this point, about what and how many powers the pools contain, or how those powers are tiered. I'd just like to see more pools.
I don't underestimate the effort involved in creating pools, by any stretch. It's just that (a) most of the pools are at least somewhat useful to include in a build; and yet (b) because there are only four or so pools per AT, it's frequently difficult to find a pool that's a good conceptual match for a character's primary/secondary sets.
I know that's not a concern that necessarily moves the hearts of the efficiency-focused. But there it is anyway.
Just a thought, but seeing as how villain PPPs are tied in to 'Prime Earth' patrons, does this mean we should be seeing something similar for Praetorian native characters?
Since GR does leave a big hole for Praetorian villains to have their EPPs lore-wise, I can see this as a good opportunity to introducing new PPPs tied to loyalists and resistance so even heroes can get PPPs, and maybe a few 'generic' pools like the APPs for villains.
A Penny For Your Thoughts #348691 <- Dev's Choice'd by Dr. Aeon!
Submit your MA arc for review & my arcs thread