I would love to see you try!

This thread may be a bit pointless... Well, more than is usual for me. Please forgive me for that, because this is something of a revelation for me, a brainwave that finally put into words something that I've been trying to say for years on these forums.

Now, we've all seen the debate about difficulty countless times - is City of Heroes too easy, or is it actually kind of difficult? Now, I know what you'll say: "Of course it's too easy!" A lot of us who come here to the forums. To a point, I will agree - many of us who come here to the forums simply know how to game the system, and if there's one truth about City of Heroes, it's that the system willingly offers us PLENTY of ways to game it if we so choose. So on the one hand, the game really IS too easy, because it's designed with a base level difficulty that is rather below even borderline top-of-the-range performance.

On the other hand... Well, I've talked about how I don't want every fight to be a boss battle, either figuratively or literally, how I want to feel strong, and I want to feel like I don't have to scrape by and gang up to defeat my enemies, but rather they have to gang up to defeat me. And while I love my long-winded explanations so very much, something happened to me today that just put it all down to a single sentence.

I started playing a game called Torchlight today. It feels like a new-age remake of the original Diablo in WoW-style semi-cartoony graphics. More to the point, on Normal difficulty the game feels like I'm playing a tank-mage. I picked a ranger class to play, because the ranger was the only girl (and the warrior was ugly as sin), but I managed to stack so much armour on her that most enemies can't even register any damage and I overdid my offense so much that what doesn't die in a single shot dies in two. So, yeah, a tank-mage. I had my share of fun dominating the various hellspawn in my way, only really pausing to consider my safety against genuine bosses, always taking the lead antagonist's taunts on the chin and smiting his minions swiftly.

One boss, when I got to him, taunted me with something to the effect of "How dare you interrupt me! I will kill you for your insolence!" My immediate, instinctive response was "I would love to see you try!" And you know what? That single sentence is an embodiment of my holy grail of gaming experience, and practically everything I've ever truly enjoyed in a video game. Ideally, it would always come to this. Ideally, that's the sentiment I want to have.

I don't want to be afraid of my enemies. I don't want to walk into a room and think "Notgoodnotgoodnotgood!" or "Oh my god! It's a boss!" I want to know that I can take care of myself, that I can rely on my own skills and powers, and that I can stand my ground. I want to know that I'm safer than always just one slip-up away from catastrophic failure. I want to look at danger with excitement, not apprehension. I want to hear a boss say he will grind my bones and have my immediate, instinctive, subconscious reaction be "I would love to see you try!"

I realise mine is a biassed, unpopular position, but I don't want to approach new and dangerous enemies worrying about what they can do and fearful of the danger. I want to approach them excited that I have found a worthy opponent and itching for a fight. I want to approach the level boss and not want to do my best to avoid as much of the fight as I can. I want to approach that fight looking forward to it, looking forward to seeing him try. And fail.

I beat the boss in question, by the way. He turned out to be FAR tougher than I had expected, and he really did end up pushing my limits quite a bit. But in the end, he tried and he failed. I just hope the game doesn't toss me a cheating boss later on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

On a semi-serious reply - "I would love to see you try!" feels like you've just summed up my experience with Scrappers over the years.

Damn do I loves me some Scrappers.

Totally agree with you Sam. I'm trying AION atm, and it's relly getting on my wick tbh. Getting killed by a single pig makes me want to smash my monitor to bits. Getting killed by a single mushroom that comes up to my knee made my instantly ragelog. I don't understand why on earth anyhone actually wants to fight something like Reichsmann in the Khan TF. What an awful, painful, slow, repetitive trudge. As far as I'm concerned. Other folk like it, and more power to them, as long as i don't have to do it.

Difficulty sliders are just basically awesome; they cater for every approach. My only mild gripe is that the difficulty doesn't go down enough (with an equivalent frop in rewards, to nil).

Eco.

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow [The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."

I don't find the game too easy at all. Well, sometimes, when teaming, probably down to the ATs and Powersets my teammates are using.
When I solo (either through choice or lack of available teams) I always keep it on base difficulty and yeah, there are some thing that are not that difficult, maybe even easy, but that's because I try my best to think about how best to play.

changing between ATs can make a huge difference in how you have to go about punching those enemies in the face.yeah I've run through complete missions with barely a pause after a mob, but then I've also had to try and draw a couple of enemies at a time away from even a small mob or hit and run sometimes. Of course then there have been the missions where I've suffered 2 deaths for every one enemy I've taken down, or worse! (COT don't like Arachnos soldiers)

I certainly think it's a good thing there's all the difficulty options, folks who like an even greater challenge, or who've chosen a build specifically to have a high-powered character might like, or even need the tougher mobs to make the game fun. That's cool. I go by character concept most of the time, and feel that a lot of the time it probably ends up with me having a less than optimal character for winning fights, but I enjoy it the way it is, and if some of my toons can only take on one or two baddies at once, oh well, just means that they feel a little bit more heroic when they take out a GM or something...or that they'd better focus on banter in order to add something to a team.

To each their own.

If a game has a deep story, so much that I want to see the story without interruptions, I will consider over-levelling or power gaming. But I MUCH prefer the versimilitude of muddling by 'in character' and limiting myself to only what my character would do or perceive in a situation and seeing how things come out.

I'd rather play a good game through several times and get various endings than just Tankmage my way through and count it as a win.

I don't want every fight to be a struggle to survive; you have to plow through mooks ever so often. But I want fights against the Bosses of a game to feel like real acheivements.

If he didn't face plant me at least once, he probably wan't tough enough to count as a Boss. I want certain enemies to make me rethink my tactics, scrape together some extra resources, look for that sudden burst of inspiration, etc.

In an MMO, however, the rules are a little different. I imagine it is tough, expecially in a game like this one, to come up with a Boss (or more properly, an AV or EB) that isn't a walkover for a certain build, while making it only 'properly tough' for the 'wrong' build.

But then, that's how I like my super hero stories, too: I prefer stories where the hero finds a way to triumph over overwhelming or seemingly hopeless odds, even at the cost of his own life, rather than those where the hero plows through armies of mooks that don't pose a threat.

When it comes to superhero battles, I'd rather see Ben Grimm struggle against, lose to, then come back and outwit the Hulk, rather than a Hulk story where he just whomps the crud out of a bunch of tanks again.

Although I do enjoy both.

Me, I'm for a bit of a balance. I don't want a game where I can just walk into any battle and know I'm (almost) certainly going to come out on top, but I also don't want a game where one slip will cost me the fight and I need to try over and over again before I finally win. I want a game where I will lose if I'm careless, but not one where I'll lose if I'm not perfect/lucky.

Fully agree. I would +rep to make up for it, but you seem to have too much +rep from me recently to allow that

Some parts of the game ARE still hard. I had the feeling of 'Awe and anticipation' during the Baracuda Reichs SF. The cutscene had me raring to go. Hell, even the mission after that was fine, as it was explained why it happened.
The actual end fight? Well, it didn't help that the first try was when the MM God-mode crasher power was bugged...and I was the MM. I got so freaking angry on that run...sheesh.

Thats the thing. We dont play games to get angry with them. We play games to enjoy them. Sure, it should be challenging at times, and have puzzles and optional bits. I mean, case in point, Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. Yes, bits were hard. But, dear lord, I woulda loved to have met the guy who designed the levels. They were awe inspiring. Sure, the lack of a compass (or a decent map...) made it a bit harder for the wrong sort of reason, but that was outweighed by the awesome factor.

Games are meant to be fun. However you play them. Thats the be-all and end-all, however you look at it.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Techbot Alpha

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

You should really try the Baracuda Strike Force. I like much better than the Khan.

I take it that something along the lines of the final room in the hero side respec trial is something you like? Well if they changed it to a kind of boss battle [i suppose it kind of is].

Does seem to have a few key fun factors in it though. The interaction with the safety bubbles, keeping the reactor healed/cooled, defeating the ambushes before they can damage it and make sure at least somebody is keeping an eye on it. Come to think of it, i wish we had more things like that room!