New Tanker and Brute Defensive Power Sets
By
BBQ_Pork,
Posted on: 2009-10-28 12:30 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Last I checked, that one was already ingame and has been for almost a couple of years now. The devs called it willpower instead though.
| Im sure that a superhero or villain could strengthen their mind to resist major damage,whether it be a natural,mutant,technological,scientific,or magical orgin? |
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: STOP!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WAIT ONE SECOND!
[Admin] Emperor Marcus Cole: WHAT IS A SEAGULL DOING ON MY THRONE!?!?
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Originally Posted by Samson_Sledge
"Protrusions"
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| "Force Ball" |
At any rate, at the time Willpower and Dual Blades were a part of the survey, one of the options was a Force Field defense set... obviously it didn't win. IIRC, it wasn't even in the top 5.
I... Don't like your powers setup in the slightest, but that doesn't matter. I agree with you on the idea of a personal forcefield set. I love the Forcefields bubble and I'd love to see that, among other things, in a defence set. I'd stick to more shields and knockback/repel, though.
If we do get something like this (and $10 says we will at some point), I just hope we have at least one bubble, and that ALL shields are some kind of forcefield, not just glowing messes of wavy auras like Energy Aura. I foresee we'll have shields more along the lines of the forcefield in Oni (or Dune, if you want to push it), in that they'll be form-fitting, but I'd still like to see at least one bubble shield that isn't Personal Forcefield.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I thought that's basically what Energy Aura was?
Also, post 3000, yay!
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I have to say, I'm tiptoeing around this idea. I'm always up for new powersets, but I'm confused as to exactly what defines this one above the others. What new things does it bring to the table? Some more Repel attacks? Well... Maybe? But I'm skeptical of that much so far, considering I'm not sure how effective knocking the enemy back would be, paired with melee.
Other than that? Where's the Mez resist?
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If you're intending to allow Tankers and Brutes to have something akin to [Force Field.Personal Force Field] at level 1, you need to share what you're smoking. It's pretty much identical to Hibernate and doesn't allow any attacks to take place while it's on.|
Originally Posted by Samson_Sledge
This power set would be for Tankers and Brutes.Some of the Powers are already there..
1)Personal Force Field |
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2)Insulation Shield 3)Repulsion Field |
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..and the others. 4)"Back-Up Power"-A Power equivelant to "Dull Pain" or "Earth's Embrace" |
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| 5)"Richochet"-A shield power that would cause an Enemies attack to be directed right back to them! |
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| 6)"Protrusions"-A power similar to "Icicles",once activated,the Shield would form hundreds of spikes on the Shield,rather than four or five spikes,stabbing the enemy away from the player |
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7)"Three-Shot"-Once activated,the Shield generates spheres which shoot outward from the main Shield in the form of a Three-Way Shot,knocking enemies down which are in front of you 8)"Force Ball"-Similar to "Shield Charge",once activated,the Shield would shoot you forward to the enemies,much like a Bowling Ball. |
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| 9)"Shield Galvanization-"The most powerful tool of the Shield,once activated,the Shield draws power from all your nearby foes,making your Shield immeasurably strong,protecting you from all forms of damage,including Psionics,and when the power wears down,its the Shield that looses power,not your hit points. |
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2)Power over the Mind Im sure that a superhero or villain could strengthen their mind to resist major damage,whether it be a natural,mutant,technological,scientific,or magical orgin? |
Apparently you haven't seen the 2 defensive powersets that Castle has made for Tankers and Brutes already. Your Force Field Defense is Shield Defense with some very minor differences and Power Over the Mind is pretty much the very definition of Willpower.
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Personally, any set that lets me protect MYSELF with a big round bubble and still shoot out of it has justification enough to exist |
Originally Posted by Sigium
I have to say, I'm tiptoeing around this idea. I'm always up for new powersets, but I'm confused as to exactly what defines this one above the others. What new things does it bring to the table? Some more Repel attacks? Well... Maybe? But I'm skeptical of that much so far, considering I'm not sure how effective knocking the enemy back would be, paired with melee.
Other than that? Where's the Mez resist? |
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I voted for it and Electric Hammer. At the time, we had no idea what the powersets would offer other than inference based off of the names.
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Originally Posted by Thirty_Seven
At any rate, at the time Willpower and Dual Blades were a part of the survey, one of the options was a Force Field defense set... obviously it didn't win. IIRC, it wasn't even in the top 5.
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Like this? http://www.freedomsphoenix.com/Uploa...oid-Shield.jpg
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, any set that lets me protect MYSELF with a big round bubble and still shoot out of it has justification enough to exist
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Hoarfrost in Ice Armor provides a layer of frost that mechanically acts as increased hp, so it is not too much of a stretch to have a force field power that works similarly.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
I don't really see how +hp is thematically appropriate for a set that is based around bubbles of protection. The theme should be more oriented around not getting hit, rather than having some mechanism of bolstering oneself.
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Hoarfrost is supposed to be a layer of ice right up against oneself that is, in roleplay sense, broken through as you get hit (as opposed to being used to deflect blows). It doesn't make much sense for a forcefield (which, according to game lore/mechanics are semipermanent effects that can be broken through without deleteriously affecting the field) to provide the same additional buffer as the ice would. Even so, it doesn't really address the issue that the proposed set is a very lightly tweaked version of Shield Defense.
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Originally Posted by LordSquigie
Hoarfrost in Ice Armor provides a layer of frost that mechanically acts as increased hp, so it is not too much of a stretch to have a force field power that works similarly.
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Like this, yes. We already have the power in the game. Forcefields grant it. I'd like to have a personal-use power like it that doesn't reduce me to only affecting myself.
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Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Umbral makes a good point. Ice gets chipped away blow by blow until you break through it to get to the person inside. Forcefields are routinely pierced completely without affecting the integrity of the field or its ability to deflect attacks afterwards. In order for a field to work as damage absorption, you'd need to explain why it doesn't allow any damage through and degrades slowly as it takes hits, which is completely uncharacteristic of forcefields in this game.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Hoarfrost is supposed to be a layer of ice right up against oneself that is, in roleplay sense, broken through as you get hit (as opposed to being used to deflect blows). It doesn't make much sense for a forcefield (which, according to game lore/mechanics are semipermanent effects that can be broken through without deleteriously affecting the field) to provide the same additional buffer as the ice would. Even so, it doesn't really address the issue that the proposed set is a very lightly tweaked version of Shield Defense.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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*scratches head*
Let's see what I can come up with on short notice.
Personal Force Field: A Brute/Tank Defensive Powerset.
1) Deflection Shield. Toggle. Self+Def (Smash/Lethal/Melee). +Res(Toxic, Slows, Def DeBuff) Animation: Same as Defender version, but bubble is around you.
2) Insulation Shield. Toggle. Self +Def (Fire, Cold, Ranged) +Res (EndDrain, Sleep, DefDeBuff)
3) Force Pulse. Click. PBAoE KB. Minor Smashing damage, possible stun.
4) Dispersion Bubble. Toggle. PBAoE, Team +Def (All), +Res (Hold, Immob, Disorient, Knockback)
5) Protective Shield. Toggle. Self +Def (Energy, Negative, AoE), +Res(Teleport, DefDeBuff)
6) White noise generation. Toggle. PBAoE Taunt, -ToHit. By creating irregularities in your energy field, you make white noise.
7) Dampening Field. Auto. +Res (Smashing, Lethal)
8) Conserve Power. Click. (If a PPP/APP with Conserve Power is taken, this power cannot be taken twice. This just allows it to be taken earlier.)
9) Personal Force Field. Toggle. Self+Def(All), +Res(All)
I skipped putting in a self-heal, but so did /SR and it's a good set. You should be able to get off Aid Self or convert and pop green inspires.
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Having a defense set that works across both positions and types hasn't occurred yet and I doubt Castle would allow it. Most likely, it would be pure typed for the simple reason that positional is generally the dodge defense whereas typed is generally the deflection defense.|
Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
*scratches head*
Let's see what I can come up with on short notice. Personal Force Field: A Brute/Tank Defensive Powerset. 1) Deflection Shield. Toggle. Self+Def (Smash/Lethal/Melee). +Res(Toxic, Slows, Def DeBuff) Animation: Same as Defender version, but bubble is around you. 2) Insulation Shield. Toggle. Self +Def (Fire, Cold, Ranged) +Res (EndDrain, Sleep, DefDeBuff) 3) Force Pulse. Click. PBAoE KB. Minor Smashing damage, possible stun. 4) Dispersion Bubble. Toggle. PBAoE, Team +Def (All), +Res (Hold, Immob, Disorient, Knockback) 5) Protective Shield. Toggle. Self +Def (Energy, Negative, AoE), +Res(Teleport, DefDeBuff) 6) White noise generation. Toggle. PBAoE Taunt, -ToHit. By creating irregularities in your energy field, you make white noise. 7) Dampening Field. Auto. +Res (Smashing, Lethal) 8) Conserve Power. Click. (If a PPP/APP with Conserve Power is taken, this power cannot be taken twice. This just allows it to be taken earlier.) 9) Personal Force Field. Toggle. Self+Def(All), +Res(All) I skipped putting in a self-heal, but so did /SR and it's a good set. You should be able to get off Aid Self or convert and pop green inspires. |
Since it would only need to provide safety to himself (it's a Defense set, not a Support set), I'd probably see it more like this:
1. Deflection Shield: toggle, .18 end/sec, 15% +def(s/l), +res(def debuff, tox)
2. Insulation Shield: toggle, .18 end/sec, 15% +def(f/c), +res(def debuff, slows)
3. Absorption Shield: toggle, .18 end/sec, 15% +def(e/n), +res(def debuff, end drain)
4. Dispersion Bubble: toggle, .21 end/sec, 15% +def(all) to allies only, +prot(hold, sleep, stun, immob, repel, knockback, knockup) only to self
5. Pulse Field: toggle, 2 sec cycle, .15 scalar smashing damage, 10% chance for mag 4 knock up
6. Guard: click, 60 second recharge, 8.75 sec duration, .67 sec animation time (.924 sec Arcanatime), 20% +def(all), 20% +res(all)
7.
8.
9.
The problem with making a Personal Force Field set is that we're basing it off a set that only has 3-4 powers that would really fit as a conversion to a defense set. FF is based around gobs of knockback and repel effects, which doesn't really work in a Defense based set. The most you could bring over without making the power outright useless (re: Force Bubble for a melee character?) would be Insulation Shield, Deflection Shield, Dispersion Bubble, and Repulsion Bomb. Of course, in order to prevent loading to much of the effectiveness of the power set into the 2 primary shields, I'd probably split them. Either way, you'd still have to invent a number of powers (specifically, passives and click powers that would make sense).
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7. Field Stability(basically power boost but not permable I'm thinking 2 minute recharge,30 second duration assuming powerboost still works on defense)|
1. Deflection Shield: toggle, .18 end/sec, 15% +def(s/l), +res(def debuff, tox) 2. Insulation Shield: toggle, .18 end/sec, 15% +def(f/c), +res(def debuff, slows) 3. Absorption Shield: toggle, .18 end/sec, 15% +def(e/n), +res(def debuff, end drain) 4. Dispersion Bubble: toggle, .21 end/sec, 15% +def(all) to allies only, +prot(hold, sleep, stun, immob, repel, knockback, knockup) only to self 5. Pulse Field: toggle, 2 sec cycle, .15 scalar smashing damage, 10% chance for mag 4 knock up 6. Guard: click, 60 second recharge, 8.75 sec duration, .67 sec animation time (.924 sec Arcanatime), 20% +def(all), 20% +res(all) |
8. ???
9. Profit
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Actually, I think that would be an interesting passive power. Make it be power boost type effect but only for +def, so it increases the power of all of your defense boosting powers. Like defensive Quickness.|
Originally Posted by DMystic
7. Field Stability(basically power boost but not permable I'm thinking 2 minute recharge,30 second duration assuming powerboost still works on defense)
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Of course, if that's not really Castle's preference, it could simply check for each of the other toggles and provide a defense boost to the defense type of that specific toggle. Re: If Deflection Shield is active, 5% +def(s/l); If Insulation Shield is active, 5% +def(f/c); If Absorption Shield is active, 5% +def(e/n); If Dispersion Bubble is active, 2.5% +def(all)
I started a similar thread here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...ht=force+field
It was pretty much stated in the thread that it was pretty much Energy Aura by those that took a look at my idea. I somewhat reluctantly had to agree. (and yes, they were correct 
) I suspect the easiest and best way of getting a "Force Field" set for Tanks/Brutes etc. would be having a new customization look for either Shield Defense or Energy Aura.
One of the ideas I had for a power that didn't make it on my list would have been a collapsing field: A field that knocked the targets towards your character as opposed to knockback/knockdown. I found out it's not mechanically feasible within the game engine to do that unfortunately.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Your specific design for it was virtually identical to Energy Aura. The set that is being proposed here is actually different from a mechanical perspective.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
I started a similar thread here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...ht=force+field
It was pretty much stated in the thread that it was pretty much Energy Aura by those that took a look at my idea. I somewhat reluctantly had to agree. (and yes, they were correct ) I suspect the easiest and best way of getting a "Force Field" set for Tanks/Brutes etc. would be having a new customization look for either Shield Defense or Energy Aura. |
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| One of the ideas I had for a power that didn't make it on my list would have been a collapsing field: A field that knocked the targets towards your character as opposed to knockback/knockdown. I found out it's not mechanically feasible within the game engine to do that unfortunately. |
Of course, I don't really see a Forcefield set as having much to do with attraction, especially when the rest of the set (and every other forcefield in the game) is based around keeping things out. I could see a Gravity Armor set having something to do with it, but it doesn't make much sense within the context of a set based around keeping everything else out.
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You're correct, although I hadn't seen it at first, my layout was virtually identical to Energy Aura's. Again, as I said previously: they were correct as well. But it still comes down to this "Force Fields are energy fields that protect allies. Energy Aura are energy fields that protect the user." quoting a Starsman comment to me. A Force Field defensive set would still be energy fields that protect the user. There maybe mechanical differences, but at it's core it's still an energy aura. |
Originally Posted by Umbral
Your specific design for it was virtually identical to Energy Aura. The set that is being proposed here is actually different from a mechanical perspective.
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Originally Posted by Umbral
Actually, it is possible. It simply requires the creation of a new effect by changing, in the code, knockback to knock in a different vector. This was done to create knockup (they made it move you in the z axis rather than the x-y axis). To generate knocktowards, they would just take knockback and alter the movement vector to be the negative of knockback.
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Mind you that was from a few months ago so thing certainly could have changed. As they say, the one constant thing in life is change.That being said, I would like to see a force field "effect" whether it be from a new powerset or from a customization option for Shields and Energy Aura.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I've been wanting a Personal Force Field Defense Set for the melee archtypes...however, why not make it simple?
Make the bubble a graphic option for shielders! All done! 
That's my suggestion for it anyways.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Castle is the one that told us that they could, without too much difficulty, create a knocktowards effect, in the manner I said they were capable of, when he informed us how knockup was created (which was much longer than a few months ago). "Currently cannot do that within the game" isn't the same as "it's too much work and we're not going to bother". The issue is that they would have to actually create the knocktowards effect and go through the game placing the appropriate resistances and protections to the new effect in all the appropriate places (re: melee defense mez toggles).
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Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
When the powers guy, aka Castle, tells me they currently cannot do that within the game I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Mind you that was from a few months ago so thing certainly could have changed. As they say, the one constant thing in life is change. |
FYI: I was referring to a private message I received from him mid June of 09 asking about the ability of a power to knock targets towards the caster instead of away. It seems our information/interaction covering such an idea has been different. 
Of course, depending on the way our particular questions were asked, both could be considered valid answers.
I can only go by the information I have directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak. So for now, I'm basing my comments on that. If it turns out they can do it as easily as you say, sweet! It would be a fun addition/change to the game.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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We already have a Force Field buffing set that would force a theme into a Personal Force Field set that would just end up being too similar to Energy Aura. You are more likely to convinece BaBs of making a Force Fields Theme for Energy Aura Customization.|
Originally Posted by Rangle M. Down
You're correct, although I hadn't seen it at first, my layout was virtually identical to Energy Aura's. Again, as I said previously: they were correct as well. But it still comes down to this "Force Fields are energy fields that protect allies. Energy Aura are energy fields that protect the user." quoting a Starsman comment to me. A Force Field defensive set would still be energy fields that protect the user. There maybe mechanical differences, but at it's core it's still an energy aura.
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When the powers guy, aka Castle, tells me they currently cannot do that within the game I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt. Mind you that was from a few months ago so thing certainly could have changed. As they say, the one constant thing in life is change. That being said, I would like to see a force field "effect" whether it be from a new powerset or from a customization option for Shields and Energy Aura. |
That being told, if this was possible I would actually just port Energy Aura to tankers and replace the stealth with a negative-repulsion power as a taunt aura that also granted the caster some survivability buff per affected foe.
One power set,I have already commented on,as have a few other people.
1)New Power Set:Personal Force Field
This power set would be for Tankers and Brutes.Some of the Powers are already there..
1)Personal Force Field
2)Insulation Shield
3)Repulsion Field
..and the others.
4)"Back-Up Power"-A Power equivelant to "Dull Pain" or "Earth's Embrace"
5)"Richochet"-A shield power that would cause an Enemies attack to be directed right back to them!
6)"Protrusions"-A power similar to "Icicles",once activated,the Shield would form hundreds of spikes on the Shield,rather than four or five spikes,stabbing the enemy away from the player
7)"Three-Shot"-Once activated,the Shield generates spheres which shoot outward from the main Shield in the form of a Three-Way Shot,knocking enemies down which are in front of you
8)"Force Ball"-Similar to "Shield Charge",once activated,the Shield would shoot you forward to the enemies,much like a Bowling Ball.
9)"Shield Galvanization-"The most powerful tool of the Shield,once activated,the Shield draws power from all your nearby foes,making your Shield immeasurably strong,protecting you from all forms of damage,including Psionics,and when the power wears down,its the Shield that looses power,not your hit points.
and the other one,which I havent had many ideas on as of yet,but,my second one is..
2)Power over the Mind
Im sure that a superhero or villain could strengthen their mind to resist major damage,whether it be a natural,mutant,technological,scientific,or magical orgin?