Holes in Defenses

Biospark, Although my 50 claws/wp scrapper did very well in the middle of a large group, but my pure wp tank could not. That is not, tanking the Alpha Strike. His health would drop down so fast you'd think he was a level 1 with no defense.

WP works well in sustained combat with 10 foes around you, but the sudden surge of damage cannot be handled. My WP tank is 24 using L-25 generic IO's. Even with full defense and tough/weave, he gets his butt kicked trying to handle an alpha. It looks good on paper, but not in operations.

From what I have read, the stone tank (granite) is the only one that can just jump into a large group and go AFK if they want. With shield charge, lightning rod, ice patch or possible one of the mace aoe's you can jump into a group and knock all the baddies on their butt and survive without being stone.

I understand what you are saying. My SG leader plays mainly only Tanks and his main is an INV/SS and his favorite is a WP/SS. Every character seems to have its unique strengths and weaknesses, and from what I have read and what I have seen in my SG, WP doesnt overcome large alphas as well as other tank types. INV has its own little weaknesses and they are not the same as WP.
So, I dont know what to tell you, other than perhaps you are trying to do too much with your Tank. At level 24, for instance, I cannot imagine playing at +3 on an 8-man team, without some really good support behind me. I dont play tanks enough to tell you for sure, but the tanks I have run with, are insanely powerfull by their 30s and pretty darn tough after SOs.

The reason I like to play tank is when an 8 man team gets to a large group, they all just freeze wondering who will make the first move. You ever see this? It happens all the time and I am sick of it.

I would play tank with my wp scrapper because the tanks were usually afraid to run into it first. Only my 10+ years of mmog experience keeps me alive. When I play tank in a group, I rush into the mob to always keep the fight going. This really speeds up the game and triples the xp. I just hope the healer is on their toes when I make this jump.

I was on a team with my WP Scrapper and the Tanker would stop, look at a group and say "Ready" at which for fun I'd charge in.

That meant my WP was in there taking an alpha.

What I did have is the people behind me...and a lot of faith in them.

Amongst those 7 other people, are people that should understand the word "team". They can all do things that will help the other people out whether its proactively or reactively.

Sometimes you will not get the support required when comes to direct alpha mitigation so you might want to prevent the enemies from hitting you all at once and make it so that the enemies are in melee range buffing your RTTC.

This can mean quickly before anyone interrupts, pulling mobs and tightening them up. This can often mean getting ahead of the team whilst they're all still busy cleaning up. Done right, the team should arrive at the next group just as the next group of NPCs tighten up. Obviously this doesn't mean run into the next group early, run around them, pull to a column then have them tighten up as there would be an alpha. It means run straight behind the column taunting just before you get there and stopping allowing mobs to get to you. Then there is no alpha as they can't hit you all at once and when they do they are in melee range.

It's not always good shooting off early as some people can't be left alone for five seconds. No team should "need" a tank except only find one preferable but those teams can exist and usually do especially with how most scrappers are built and played.

There are other ways of alpha mitigation, AoE controls, not all attract attention but with some of those that do, they can be done without getting attention. Either way it could be mob control then instant intercept by you of any strays, before the rest. Also debuffs to intercept and whatever buffs can be on you can help but I stress that, if you are buffed then you better most keen to be directing damage onto you. As a buffer myself, I don't mind buffing tankers as long as either, I can, or don't need to, buff others. If you can't keep aggro then I'd sooner buff others.

When it comes to people who can heal I normally find that they have other powers that can be more useful and if they used those powers we all wouldn't need so many green numbers.

I have to second the "Tanks need brains" philosophy. It doesn't take brains to stand there and hit "taunt". But those tanks will often faceplant the second they bite off more than they can chew. And if someone's just gonna eat agro for 5 seconds before dying, you might as well have a Blaster take alpha. Inspiration use, maneuvering, situational and environmental awareness are the best tool at a Tank's disposal.

Yes, but I wonder if there is a delay for RTTC to start working. If I jumped into the middle of a large crowd of baddies, shouldn't RTTC be activated at maximum regen? Or is there a few second delay that causes problems with alphas?

I don't know if just jumping in is the best approach for WP.
Invl can often just jump in because it has a lot of up front mitigation in the form of fat resistance to common damage types and it has a panic button in Dull Pain.

Yes, the regen kicks in at full. However, in the meantime, everything spins around and hits you as hard as they can, at the same time, and that often means that your hp yoyos below zero for a bit.. which means you fall over. Same issue that relying on healing always has had.

4% - tohit is 8% damage not taken.

a WP tank with tough/weave, combat jumping and the steadfast unique should be able to handle most groups at +2 and some at +3 if there are few bosses without ever possibly dying. Adding in set IOs will push you up to +3 easy and +4/+5 should be survivable for long enough to have your team's defender/controller heal you or have your team clear out enough mobs to make you sustainable.

For some odd reason I feel like adding advice that everyones pretty much said...

-Defenses aren't strong until SO's
-Level 25 IO's are NOT the same as SO's, they are the same as -1 SO's, It's a huge difference when talking defense, as each percentage point towards the cap gives you more mitigation than the one before it. Unlike slotting for damage or something, where 9% is going to be maybe 10-20 more damage, negligible if you're not optimizing for damage.
-*which means wait til 35 IO's, which are the same as +3 SO's and will stave off the ED cap allowing you to get something like 99% rather than 80-90% 3 slotted.*
-Willpower is a powerful set, but it benefits greatly from layered defenses (IE tough/weave) and can handle the endurance drain.
-Willpower's weakness is the alpha strike, you have Three options.
*Use an offensive power to break alpha, KB/KD/Stuns
*Use an inspiration (both defense and resist stack with WP so it doesnt matter, it'll be enough.)
*Use Strength of Will (this is why you will feel more powerful at 32, your hole gets partially covered up)
-Willpower requires enemies around you to be strong, make sure you have the tools to keep area enemy aggro on you, in melee range.

All sets have a weakness, and all weaknesses can be patched, between pool powers, IO slotting, and playstyle.

All tank sets are capable of tanking what you want them to tank, in their future.

Certain sets are more defensive than others, as a 'pure' tank you'd be best going with things like Stone, Invuln, or WP, but research them to find their weaknesses, and how late blooming they should be due to power positioning/necessity SO's, or of offensive mitigation etc.

If you did the extreme build, you probably managed to put enough slots in your defenses to make them worthwhile after SO's as soon as you get them.
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This game is all about knowing your powers, look at the detailed info before you create a character, this will tell you what mez/res/def holes you have.
From that point choose your secondary keeping in mind what will be needed to cover them, and what your primary can support.

In this case you have a willpower tank, stone is a good secondary since willpower can handle the extra end cost of stone, and stone offers willpower an alpha dispersion tool, fault. This is why secondaries are important to consider even if you're not going offensive.

Now for pool choices, sometimes willpower has a tough time keeping aggro, which means a tough time being a team tank, and a tough time keeping regeneration high. It's a good idea to pick powers that
A.)Activate gauntlet rapidly (quick single attacks)
B.)Take several area attacks

*Edit* Don't take presence pool, just slot taunt correctly.

Yeah, using your attacks, leveraging RTTC well, and Taunting when needed is plenty fine. Used to be Tanks took the Presence Pool because taunt was ST. Now, Taunt is much, much better: use it and forget the Presence Pool.

ah yea, I'll strike the presence pool part of that post off. It's been a long time since I've played tank and it would probably hurt to see him go any more "pure tank" than he already is. *wish I knew how to do strikethroughs, delete seems kind of escapist*