Trading Reward Merits for Vanguard Merits?
By
BlueRaptor,
Posted on: 2009-10-19 09:43 in Suggestions and Ideas
When runnign through Techbot Alpha's thread about Vanguard merits, the same thought actually occured to me.
One issue I can see (not insurmountable) is that Vanguard merits are right now 35 and higher.
To keep that if desired, may require some new tech/programming.
Even if you created a autmatic recipe in the invention table that was a level 35 or higher, that doesn't gate anything right now. A level 1 can happily craft (but not use) a level 50 recipe.
I haven't tried this (and have no game access right now), can a lowbie directly purchase a high level recipe from merit vendors ? (I recall what is avaiable being level gated, but haven't really bought a lot with lowbies)
That may be a way to the level gating mechanism. Have a 'recipe' sold by the merit vendors for say 10 merits, that uses no salvage, and just a little inf for the crafting, an gives 50 Vanguard merits.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Sir, I do believe the level requirements have been taken off, have they not? Simply Super-sidekick yourself to a higher level and get yourself up on deck, and you're fighting amongst Vanguard. During DoubleXP weekend I made it in when I was a mere level 33.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
When runnign through Techbot Alpha's thread about Vanguard merits, the same thought actually occured to me.
One issue I can see (not insurmountable) is that Vanguard merits are right now 35 and higher. To keep that if desired, may require some new tech/programming. Even if you created a autmatic recipe in the invention table that was a level 35 or higher, that doesn't gate anything right now. A level 1 can happily craft (but not use) a level 50 recipe. I haven't tried this (and have no game access right now), can a lowbie directly purchase a high level recipe from merit vendors ? (I recall what is avaiable being level gated, but haven't really bought a lot with lowbies) That may be a way to the level gating mechanism. Have a 'recipe' sold by the merit vendors for say 10 merits, that uses no salvage, and just a little inf for the crafting, an gives 50 Vanguard merits. |
Entry into the RWZ is not level gated.
Getting the 'Member of Vanguard Badge' and general access to merits, still requires you to be 35+ and run Leventera's first arc.
Actually another thing to check in game (making a list for later in your thread, sorry).
Take a level 50, and a lowbie (say sub-5) on 2 accounts. Start Leventera's arc in flashback from a SG base. See if the badge is awarded to the lowbie.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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That's right! Silly me, I forgot you needed that damn badge.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Entry into the RWZ is not level gated.
Getting the 'Member of Vanguard Badge' and general access to merits, still requires you to be 35+ and run Leventera's first arc. Actually another thing to check in game (making a list for later in your thread, sorry). Take a level 50, and a lowbie (say sub-5) on 2 accounts. Start Leventera's arc in flashback from a SG base. See if the badge is awarded to the lowbie. |
Even so, Cat, what's 35 levels worth of merits? It seems to me like it wouldn't be too incredibly horrible if we were allowed to trade in our surplus of something (if we chose to keep a surplus) for something we don't have enough of.
I think it is a good idea, I would like to see all forms of currency exchangeable with each other.
Thus you could use influence to buy Tickets, Merits, Vanguard Merits
You could use Merits to buy Influence, Tickets, Vanguard Merits
You could use Tickets to buy Influence, Merits, Vanguard Merits
You couls use Vanguard Merits to buy Influence, Merits, Tickets
This way the player has a nice level of freedom, but it is important to have reasonable exchange rates between the currencies. I am not sure what exchange rates should be, but here is a swag at it...
1 Merit = 720,000 Influence .... A Numina Regen/Recov sales for 180M cost 250 merits
1 Merit = 1 Ticket .... A Merit random roll is about the same for ticket roll
1 Merit = ? Vanguard Merits .... I can't think of a way to associate them
Hugs
Stormy
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No, just no.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
I think it is a good idea, I would like to see all forms of currency exchangeable with each other.
Thus you could use influence to buy Tickets, Merits, Vanguard Merits You could use Merits to buy Influence, Tickets, Vanguard Merits You could use Tickets to buy Influence, Merits, Vanguard Merits You couls use Vanguard Merits to buy Influence, Merits, Tickets This way the player has a nice level of freedom, but it is important to have reasonable exchange rates between the currencies. I am not sure what exchange rates should be, but here is a swag at it... 1 Merit = 720,000 Influence .... A Numina Regen/Recov sales for 180M cost 250 merits 1 Merit = 1 Ticket .... A Merit random roll is about the same for ticket roll 1 Merit = ? Vanguard Merits .... I can't think of a way to associate them Hugs Stormy |
The Merit to inf ratio, you're basing that off one item which does not have a static cost.
Merit to ticket ratio, you're forgetting how easily gotten tickets are. If I could trade tickets for merits.. I could then run an AE Ticket Farm, get alittle over 1000 tickets, exchange them all for merits, and buy some of the really high value IO recipes, and resell them.
.. But wait, everyone would do that, which would put a glut of those recipes on the market, causing their price to lower (which would be a good thing, honestly), this would mean that the merit to inf. ratio was way off now..
Merits for other things: maybe.
Other things for merits: No.
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Even then, if you ahve 35 levels of backlogged Merits that you dont use (Like me, for example. I tend not to get enough for anything major) trading them in at 35 for VG Merits would, hopefully, pay for a chunk of the stuff I would be after, mostly the costume parts.|
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
When runnign through Techbot Alpha's thread about Vanguard merits, the same thought actually occured to me.
One issue I can see (not insurmountable) is that Vanguard merits are right now 35 and higher. To keep that if desired, may require some new tech/programming. Even if you created a autmatic recipe in the invention table that was a level 35 or higher, that doesn't gate anything right now. A level 1 can happily craft (but not use) a level 50 recipe. I haven't tried this (and have no game access right now), can a lowbie directly purchase a high level recipe from merit vendors ? (I recall what is avaiable being level gated, but haven't really bought a lot with lowbies) That may be a way to the level gating mechanism. Have a 'recipe' sold by the merit vendors for say 10 merits, that uses no salvage, and just a little inf for the crafting, an gives 50 Vanguard merits. |
Idea gets my /signed
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Too bad only one of those things is currency. All the others are reward chits only redeemable by the person that earned them in a specific way. I'm not opposed to exchanging currencies, but not when you're trying to get things that are specifically designed as markers of accomplishment for that character, then no.
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Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
I think it is a good idea, I would like to see all forms of currency exchangeable with each other.
Thus you could use influence to buy Tickets, Merits, Vanguard Merits You could use Merits to buy Influence, Tickets, Vanguard Merits You could use Tickets to buy Influence, Merits, Vanguard Merits You couls use Vanguard Merits to buy Influence, Merits, Tickets This way the player has a nice level of freedom, but it is important to have reasonable exchange rates between the currencies. I am not sure what exchange rates should be, but here is a swag at it... 1 Merit = 720,000 Influence .... A Numina Regen/Recov sales for 180M cost 250 merits 1 Merit = 1 Ticket .... A Merit random roll is about the same for ticket roll 1 Merit = ? Vanguard Merits .... I can't think of a way to associate them Hugs Stormy |
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Did you REALLY have to bring this into my thread? Really? |
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
I think it is a good idea, I would like to see all forms of currency exchangeable with each other.
Thus you could use influence to buy Tickets, Merits, Vanguard Merits You could use Merits to buy Influence, Tickets, Vanguard Merits You could use Tickets to buy Influence, Merits, Vanguard Merits You couls use Vanguard Merits to buy Influence, Merits, Tickets This way the player has a nice level of freedom, but it is important to have reasonable exchange rates between the currencies. I am not sure what exchange rates should be, but here is a swag at it... 1 Merit = 720,000 Influence .... A Numina Regen/Recov sales for 180M cost 250 merits 1 Merit = 1 Ticket .... A Merit random roll is about the same for ticket roll 1 Merit = ? Vanguard Merits .... I can't think of a way to associate them Hugs Stormy |
NO.
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Doesn't work |
Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Take a level 50, and a lowbie (say sub-5) on 2 accounts. Start Leventera's arc in flashback from a SG base. See if the badge is awarded to the lowbie.
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Still get the all characters must be of the appropriate level to start message.
Ah Well.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
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Ok Sigi, sarcasm aside, why not?|
Originally Posted by Sigium
Did you REALLY have to bring this into my thread? Really?
NO. |
The values for the exchange were references or suggestions, not mandates, perhaps the community would come up with something that really makes sense and give some kind of logical reason for them. I simply extended your concept to be a bit more comprehensive, and ironically supported your original suggestion. I even had the courtesy to try to give a reason for the suggestions, granted the reason may not be rock solid, but at least it was something to go off from. It was much more than a "no". I like the concept of currency exchange, cause at times I want something and I have all sorts of currencies and it would be nice, call it quality of life improvement, to be able to exchange those currencies into a common one and perhaps with some luck have sufficient to acquire what I want after all. If you think of it, your post is in fact a Quality Of Life post itself.
Stormy
Would be cool if you could trade among currencies, it kinda make sense to me, if one thinks of currencies such as Dollars, Yen, Pesos, Euros and what not; at the end of the day they are all currencies which you could go to a bank and exchange them for the currency that makes sense to you at the time, if you going to Japan it would make sense to have Yens to buy stuff there.
Now it seems to me, that earning the various currencies have different levels of difficulty with some being rather tough and others rather easy. I can see getting Vanguard Merits all too easy during a Mothership Raid, and tickets are acquired much easier than Merits, so I can see premium charges for those excahanges or something that drives the exchange rates. I think Stormy has the right idea, but not the right exchange rates. Sadly I have not been playing the game long enough to have a good sense of what would be right, perhaps some of you experienced guys out there could come with recommendations for what these exchanges should be.
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With the exceptions that none of the "currencies" here are in any way monetary.|
Originally Posted by Smokefire
Would be cool if you could trade among currencies, it kinda make sense to me, if one thinks of currencies such as Dollars, Yen, Pesos, Euros and what not; at the end of the day they are all currencies which you could go to a bank and exchange them for the currency that makes sense to you at the time, if you going to Japan it would make sense to have Yens to buy stuff there.
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[color =#8090B0]Its more like asking that college degrees, military ranks and medals of honor should be exchangable.[/color]
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Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
With the exceptions that none of the "currencies" here are in any way monetary.
[color =#8090B0]Its more like asking that college degrees, military ranks and medals of honor should be exchangable.[/color] |
...Well, inf sorta is currency now. It didn't used to be, but it is now. (I know it's "supposed to be" your fame, essentially...)
The other three though, you're exactly right. (So change 'college degrees' to 'arcade tickets'
)
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Sorry, but you're wrong. Inf is money, however much the devs or anyone else tries to foo-foo it.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
With the exceptions that none of the "currencies" here are in any way monetary.
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You can use it to pay your rent. You use it to buy pretty much ANYTHING in the game. It can be traded, given away, etc. Heck, check the market thread. You can even invest it now.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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Wow you can invest it now? that sounds delightful, can you post the thread for me?|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Sorry, but you're wrong. Inf is money, however much the devs or anyone else tries to foo-foo it.
You can use it to pay your rent. You use it to buy pretty much ANYTHING in the game. It can be traded, given away, etc. Heck, check the market thread. You can even invest it now. |
Thank you
Stormy
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Perhaps we are taking the word "currency" to an extreme and you ar eplaying devil's advocate all too well, ha ha ha.|
Originally Posted by BlueRaptor
With the exceptions that none of the "currencies" here are in any way monetary.
[color =#8090B0]Its more like asking that college degrees, military ranks and medals of honor should be exchangable.[/color] |
But in my experience, currency is the definition of what it is used to trade for goods and services. In America nomally the Dollar is used as the official currency, But I will tell you I will take Budweiser as bonafide currency for helping you with your yard work. How many times you "barter", or trade something for something, at the end what all these processes are doing is simply the function we call "Curency"
It sure feels like currency when I trade 60 tickets and I get a recipe; it sure feels like currency when I trade vanguard merits and I get a kick *** robot; it sure feels like currency when I trade merits for recipes; it sure feels like currency when I trade influence for a recipe at WW.
So we can really get wrapped around the axle over semantics, but at the end of the day, influence, merits, tickets, and vanguard tickets are forms of currency. So why not define the exchange rates and give players some flexibility?
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^ This, just slightly Off-topic.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Sorry, but you're wrong. Inf is money, however much the devs or anyone else tries to foo-foo it.
You can use it to pay your rent. You use it to buy pretty much ANYTHING in the game. It can be traded, given away, etc. Heck, check the market thread. You can even invest it now. |
Inf=Cash. End of. It just is.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Eh i see no problem with converting inf to merits as long as its done right.
Merits remain untradeable
Neither merits nor tickets can be converted back to inf (short of purchasing an item and selling it)
Merits must remain quicker and easier to earn through tf and storyarcs than just farming inf.
Anything purchased with merits must be worth less when sold on WW or the NPC store than the merits used to purchase it.
So maybe something like 1 mil inf trades for 1 merit. So if you really want to blow your 2 bil inf on 2000 merits then go for it. Just means less inf in the economy to jack up WW prices with.
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Inf is an interesting thing.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
^ This, just slightly Off-topic.
Inf=Cash. End of. It just is. |
Technically speaking, from the "canon" standing, inf is the notoriety of your character, which leads to the ability to obtain things. It can still be looked at like that.. sorta.
I've personally come to the conclusion that inf is kind of like the "Wealth attribute" from the D20 modern system. An abstract which determines what you can obtain. Small purchases (compared to the number) don't have any real effect on the number, large ones, however, might.
So, I don't really see inf as entirely being "cash", but an abstract which is still loosely based on the notoriety of your character. (After all, Chuck Norris will have an easier time obtaining an M16 than you average Joe, even if he has the money for it.)
The only in-game "currency" that can be directly linked to a real-world "currency" is, of course, AE tickets = Arcade tickets. 'cept the AE trinkets are SO much cooler
The most recent infamy = money = lets make a bank for it discussion can be found here think: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=194074
And even though inf works a quite like money now that still isnt an argument for having different kinds of reward medals freely convertible into each other or (more than teh OP suggested) inf.
Plus I am not a fan of the self fulfillig prophecy of making inf more like money by claiming it already is like it. If the devs wanted inf to be money, rest assured you wouldnt have to wonder if it is.
Frankly, I'm less interested in Vanguard Merits - my character who has lots of them, isn't interested in the Vanguard Loot.
What I'd really love, if being able to trade Vanguard merits for Reward Merits.
Alternately, I'd like to be able to buy Enhancement Recipes with the Merits I have. Maybe some cool Vanguard-exclusive Recipes? Or just let me get whatever...
Although a lot of the existing recipes don't enhance in the 'balance' that I want... Sets that offer Accuracy, when I want Recharge, or Recharge, when I need Endurance, Damage when I need Slow, etc. Except for the set Bonuses, it seems all sets are the same, or nearly.
Anyway, I'd like to be able to Use the Vanguard Merits, but my character doesn't wear armor, or use weapons... What else are they good for?
Be Well!
Fireheart
Just a quick reply.
I went into the RWZ a week or so ago on a character that had not done the Welcome to the Vanguard arc yet. I saw there was a Ship Raid starting. Having done one before, and enjoyed it then, I signed up, and got on a team. By the end of it, I'd gotten a couple bars of xp, some decent drops, and 13 Vanguard merits.
I don't remember what level he was, if he was under 35 or not, but just want to remind folks, you don't have to have the badge to start collecting Vanguard Merits.
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That shouldn't be happening.|
Originally Posted by Maniac_Raid
Just a quick reply.
I went into the RWZ a week or so ago on a character that had not done the Welcome to the Vanguard arc yet. I saw there was a Ship Raid starting. Having done one before, and enjoyed it then, I signed up, and got on a team. By the end of it, I'd gotten a couple bars of xp, some decent drops, and 13 Vanguard merits. I don't remember what level he was, if he was under 35 or not, but just want to remind folks, you don't have to have the badge to start collecting Vanguard Merits. |
Also, if you got 13 Merits on a Ship Raid and you were teamed, you should be able to sue for utter fail.
Ship Raid = about 400+ merits, on a mediocre run. A good run can be upwards of 500+.
So, you DO need the badge. Anything else is a bug.
Doesn't mean I LIKE it...Access from level 1 would be much prefered.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Let's just say... Let's just say you're trying to get your Vanguard Costume piece, or a nice, shiney HVAS, or just the new Costume-Changing emote. You've got enough recipes for being your level, you just want your shinies.
I'd like to propose a simple 'trades vendor' who will give you 5 Vanguard Merits for every Reward Merit you turn in. 20 merits -> 100 VMerits.
This way, if you're just not having fun slaying Rikti, you can simply trade some excess merits in that you're not using for a recipe drop in. This trade works one way, and you cannot trade Vanguard Merits in for Reward Merits.
I'd like to think it's a simple idea, but perhaps the community will tell me otherwise.