Highest Single Target Damage toon
By
Arbegla,
Posted on: 2009-10-16 23:00 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Have you tested this? I'd be interested to know what the dps is in practice, as that tends to vary from theory.
Also, might something like a fire/kin corruptor beat this? (assuming you can surround yourself with minions or something). You'd have saturated fulcrum which would likely make a big difference, and scourge of course.
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Like I said in the OP, if you give me the billions upon billions needed I'll make this toon and post vids.|
Originally Posted by Kahlan_
Have you tested this? I'd be interested to know what the dps is in practice, as that tends to vary from theory.
Also, might something like a fire/kin corruptor beat this? (assuming you can surround yourself with minions or something). You'd have saturated fulcrum which would likely make a big difference, and scourge of course. |
DPS only varies from theory because people calculate DPS incorrectly. That said, for this toon you'd have a hard time finding things with enough hp to fight that didn't pose a survivability issue to get an accurate reading on the dps output. Everything short of an EB will die in seconds so the dps would be there, just hard to accurately determine. But if you grabbed a tank to taunt an AV or something the numbers you produced would be within a couple percent of what I've posted. Basically the only thing that might cause variance is the Tarantuala as I've never tested it to be certain of what it is capable of. And of course other factors like lag, but that is not an issue with the toon per se.
A damage capped fire/kin corr wouldn't be close. They struggle to break 300 dps even with scourge factored in at a boss+ rate. You have the right powerset, but the wrong AT. A fire/kin/fire at damage cap w/ containment is (roughly) at ~350 w/ procs. They'd need an appreciable source of -res (beyond the gladiator proc in hotfeet) to close the gap. It was the same way for the dom, poison ray makes a massive difference.
High recharge Sonic Blaster running Shriek-Scream-Shriek-Shout, with occasional blaps thrown in as opportunity presents itself.
If your chain is seamless you will be around 60% defiance bonus and 60% or so resistance debuff. Consistently. Your chain doesn't start out that great, but after the first cycle your damage gets ridiculous against a single hard target.
Don't lead with Shout under any circumstances, build up some defiance and -res before you use it or it's activation time kills your DPS. 500+ damage from Shout (which I can consistently get) makes the glacially slow animation worth it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Any predictions as to how much damage? I'm going to be away for a few days, and I hate calculating sonic stuff accurately, but I'm going to guess a sonic/elec would have issues breaking 240 dps.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
High recharge Sonic Blaster running Shriek-Scream-Shriek-Shout, with occasional blaps thrown in as opportunity presents itself.
If your chain is seamless you will be around 60% defiance bonus and 60% or so resistance debuff. Consistently. Your chain doesn't start out that great, but after the first cycle your damage gets ridiculous against a single hard target. Don't lead with Shout under any circumstances, build up some defiance and -res before you use it or it's activation time kills your DPS. 500+ damage from Shout (which I can consistently get) makes the glacially slow animation worth it. |
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Remember, there is an issue, anytime you're using a proc, that it won't proc during a domination cycle and you'll end up crashing, endurance-wise.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
*I'm using the perf proc at a value of 0.1 eps, but now that I actually look at it it should be 0.2 eps right? I still can't put in a pure damage Apoc even if that is the case, but it gives about 6.5 seconds of endurance buffering rather than the 1 sec like I thought on this build.
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Hey frosti, when are you using poisonous ray in the whole chain? Every time it wears off or what?
I'm tempted to make one of these myself and use my defense insp making macros for survivability. All my moneh is on hero side right now, unfortunately 
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Mole Machine.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
you'd have a hard time finding things with enough hp to fight that didn't pose a survivability issue
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aye it's a risk, definitely worth being aware of.
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Originally Posted by BlackBellatrix
Remember, there is an issue, anytime you're using a proc, that it won't proc during a domination cycle and you'll end up crashing, endurance-wise.
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How high can you go DPS wise if you do not worry about endurance?
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
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I use (or would use I should say) p-ray every:|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Hey frosti, when are you using poisonous ray in the whole chain? Every time it wears off or what?
I'm tempted to make one of these myself and use my defense insp making macros for survivability. All my moneh is on hero side right now, unfortunately |
2.244 cast + 0.67 redraw*
=30 duration -2.914 total cast
=every 27.086 seconds
*I'm not sure of the actual draw time on the mace, but 0.67 seems about right.
But in actual play you'd open with it vs w/e you wanted to implode in seconds.
survivability in actual game play would be a matter of flashfire on whole spawns, or a char vs boss(es) on the way into melee range. If you do it as you are jumping in the time lost can be very very tiny. ~24% s/l def would keep you rolling pretty well too. Or ya, run some def insp and play like a crazy scrapper heh.
I'd expect your realized damage to be higher in a normal mission setting because you can play to maximize encounters so FE is up almost all the time. What I mean is obviously lower damage over time due to not fighting at times, but higher damage while you are actually fighting because the dps figures are a combo of the FE up and down times.
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Dunno, never occured to me to try. Probably not a lot higher though as you can't get a higher damage chain than incin, FB, blaze. Couple more procs here and there, maybe a bit more damage bonuses.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
How high can you go DPS wise if you do not worry about endurance?
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Dunno, pull one of the builds and see what you can stick in it without reducing the uptime of FE much, or creating any gaps in the attacks (needed rech for each attack listed in an earlier post).
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I've hit 300 or so with my Sonic/Devices while Speed Boosted. (It's the only way I hit high enough levels of recharge for my chain to be completely seamless)|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
Any predictions as to how much damage? I'm going to be away for a few days, and I hate calculating sonic stuff accurately, but I'm going to guess a sonic/elec would have issues breaking 240 dps.
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That's running the generally accepted chain of Shriek-Scream-Shriek-Shout.
After about 2 revolutions of my chain my Shout is breaking 600 per activation, and Sonic's attacks have a pretty consistent DPA across them. Shriek is usually hitting for about 325-350 by that point. That's with no procs anywhere in the build, could probably get it higher with procs.
The downside to it is: You have to keep attacking to keep your DPS up, since it relies so much on Defiance and resistance debuff. Once your target is dead and you switch you have to build it up again.
I haven't encountered much, if anything, that can outdamage a Sonic blaster in the long run. In the short term there is a lot that can.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
shout: 600/2.904 = 207
scream: 350/1.85 = 189
Definitely procs would push that higher as would more damage buffs like a son/elec and the occassional much higher dpa attack like charged brawl. I stand by what I said for sonic blasters though.
Fire is a much more damaging set. And while I haven't looked specifically at blasters I'm confident in saying that because it is true for corruptors where sonic is comparitively better with higher -res and fire is comparitively worse in that it benefits from scourge the least due to the dot. Of course Fireblast the power isn't as good for blasters due to the longer cast time, but not enough of a difference to really matter I'd imagine.
IIRC fire deals a little over 2x the base damage of sonic when you remove gaps which ultimately means you need a lot of -res. More than is reasonably accessible for blasters and corrs. A well built sonic defender might still edge out a fire defender if/when that becomes possible, but that remains to be seen.
Sonic is a crazy good forcemultiplication set though, if doms ever get a /sonic assault set I'll be taking a very close look at fire/sonic assault. Or if they ever added a sonic app to trollers 
Interesting discussion.
An easier (in theory) way to test this is to make an AE mission, go into playtest mode and set yourself on invincible and put in an AV.
You'll be doing the damage to defeat them but won't die.
EDIT: And woot, 11,000 posts. 
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Great point about setting to invincible in AE for testing. You certainly do enough damage to out agro pets too.
I'm not entirely sure of what the "Call Reinforcements" pets are actually like in game (as in I haven't personally tested their dps) and the same goes for the "summon Blaster" from mace epic, but if they do what they are capable of on paper I have a Bane VEAT build that would be on par with this dom. So in the ~400 dps club.
Softcapped melee and ranged too and able to run for about 9 min+ without endurance issues.
Runs a chain of Poison Ray>Pulverize>shatter x2 and Poison Ray>Pulverize>Shatter Armor x1
I won't post it yet as I'm still improving it as I pretended it has perma-hasten, but it is actually 5 seconds away right now. So far it is a pittance the cost of the dom build though.
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I have been. It was the stupidest TF CF with the most mentally challenged f-ups. Multiple poor impulse control blasters who would draw aggro and faceplant at your feet. |
Originally Posted by BrandX
I've never been on a 8 person PuG, that couldn't beat Romulus's regen in the first encounter. What's that like? Sounds kinda depressing. Where they not slotted up?
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The horror...the horror...
Hey I wanna see builds here, this thread made me curious
Since we have open beta, I'd like to add that defenders, like rad/sonic (or if they get fire), may become a lot more interesting with their new inherent - if it goes live. Grrr... can figure out how to link things, so here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=217380
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If you're gonna ignore survivability, why not ignore end costs too? You can bring blues as easily as you bring purples. Or you could neglect to slot for acc and use yellows, whatever. It seems you've got your own arbitrary rules here too.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Of course this is in a vacuum, everything posted on the forums that isn't a video of it actually being done is a vacuum discussion. As for survivability, who cares really? it was never a concern when talking about the highest dps blasters. This is a demonstration build of the highest dps possible in the game. If it were an example of the highest dps+highest survivability, or highest dps pylon solo'ing build, or highest dps x AV build, or best toon vs 15 AV's at once, then it would be titled differently and probably wouldn't be this toon.
If you wanted to solo an AV with this build bring demonic accolade and 4 purples. That will give you about 30 seconds to spare considering it could kill easy AV's in a hair over 90 seconds. No insp/accolades is an arbitrary rule. If it offends someone's honor who has high survivability tell them to bring a whole tray of reds, they won't get close to your damage |
Speaking of making such a build and trying it out, I can't help much. I have IOd my Fire/Fire dom out, but it wasn't a full balls-to-the-wall DPS build. I went for permadom without Hasten level recharge and softcapped smashing/lethal defense. No Poisonous Ray, no Hot Feet, no pets other than Fire Imps.
Having read this though I was curious. I took him out against a Pylon to see where his DPS came in at. I forget the exact number, but I think he came in at about 230ish DPS. It'd probably be more if the Fire Imps didn't get blown to bits in a single volley, so I didn't bother summoning them.
Given the nature of -res, I can definitely believe that adding Poisonous Ray would shoot my DPS through the roof, I just couldn't swing it at the level of recharge I wanted.
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Survivability isn't ignored though, it has low 20's s/l and can stack almost mag 60 in holds, perma flashfire, pets to draw a bit of agro and pff if things go really south.|
Originally Posted by Ryuuk
If you're gonna ignore survivability, why not ignore end costs too? You can bring blues as easily as you bring purples. Or you could neglect to slot for acc and use yellows, whatever. It seems you've got your own arbitrary rules here too.
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Outside of one specific enemy type the build is entirely self sustainable.
You couldn't skimp on acc if you wanted to, try it. I bet you couldn't make a crazy perma dom build like this that can't easily hit +3's if you tried. High acc is a by product of expensive builds.
You could make it so you are sucking wind after a short period, that was already discussed. The net gains would be small though from a damage standpoint. The fact is purple insp give the best mileage of all the insp. If you are going to use something it may as well be them. And the only time you are going to need them is against one specific scenario. Or we could pretend that every toon that doesn't have softcap def is useless... You keep thing that and I can guarantee you a fire/fire/mace dom will smoke you in pretty much any task. It's not unlike the new trend of dark, fire and ela toons that are aiming for 32.5% def so they are one purple insp from softcap. They rarely need to down those insp, but when they do their peak potential is miles beyond what something like an SR can achieve.
I could just as easily walk into the scrapper boards and tell them they are all useless because they can't solo GM's like my fire/traps can. Probably not the most productive stance to take though. And the day a scrapper posts about taking down a GM no matter how many insp they use I'll be cheering them on.
334 seems a little low compared to some of the numbers I've seen thrown around the Scrapper forum.
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I think you're misremembering.|
Originally Posted by Weatherby Goode
334 seems a little low compared to some of the numbers I've seen thrown around the Scrapper forum.
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A) The highest dps by far I remember listed in the pylon thread was Frosty's MM, at 321 dps
B) The highest scrapper dps listed I believe is 286, which is with saturated soul drain and AAo. Many builds have problems breaking the 200 mark
C) If you look further in the thread, you'll see that we actually got these builds above 400 dps.
Anyway, I've crafted a bane build myself that on paper should do well over 400 dps; not as much defense as Frosty's, but within the range of using one small purple to go over the softcap. Trying to outfit it and actually test it now, but unfortunately I'm gonna be gone for a while starting soon.
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Bane's can be friggin sick. Did you remember to factor the added time for the redraw? I'm not sure how fast it actually redraws, but I just plug it in as 0.77 sec's.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
I think you're misremembering.
A) The highest dps by far I remember listed in the pylon thread was Frosty's MM, at 321 dps B) The highest scrapper dps listed I believe is 286, which is with saturated soul drain and AAo. Many builds have problems breaking the 200 mark C) If you look further in the thread, you'll see that we actually got these builds above 400 dps. Anyway, I've crafted a bane build myself that on paper should do well over 400 dps; not as much defense as Frosty's, but within the range of using one small purple to go over the softcap. Trying to outfit it and actually test it now, but unfortunately I'm gonna be gone for a while starting soon. |
I was hesitant to mention it, but I think I have a Bane build that could throw out 460 dps. I actually sat down and drew out the chains over a full 60 seconds and lined up the -res powers rather than just factoring avg damage minus parasitic drain and lets just say it was dam impressive. Roughly half the damage is generated by the pets though.
I've started testing the first two spiders on my Bane to get a picture of what they will produce in actual gameplay, but it is going slowly as the excessive redraw of the toon has worn me out...hopefully temporarily.
I'm working on a different toon now though, that if all goes to plan should be a contender for this thread. Not a title taker, but in the running.
I'm getting 402.1 dps for the last build you posted.
-res proc in hotfeet is a great idea though and so is the pancea proc. I'm not keen on some of the other choices you made, but you are being true to where the goalposts were set, or undefined.
Anyway, I'm happy enough with 400 and change for this build. I didn't set up this project very well in excel so figuring out new numbers for each build is taking me longer than I care to spend.
When I first started looking at fire/fire doms I knew they could legitimately get into the 300 dps club, the fact that it is possible to go far beyond that is good to know.