Electric Melee has 2 PBAOEs (Thunder Strike, Lightning Rod), a narrow cone (Jacob's Ladder), and an attack that, while nominally a single target attack, will jump to other mobs and do damage (Chain Induction). It seems to me to be superior to Fire in its multi-target capacity.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Note: Thunder Strike isn't a full fledged AoE, it's a st / aoe hybrid. While it deals splash energy damage, the smashing damage is still single target. It also has a smaller than usual radius of 7ft and is centered around the target, not you.
Quote:
I assumed it was an AoE; it takes PBAoE sets. For ordinary tanker play, the difference is probably difficult to notice. |
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Note: Thunder Strike isn't a full fledged AoE, it's a st / aoe hybrid. While it deals splash energy damage, the smashing damage is still single target. It also has a smaller than usual radius of 7ft and is centered around the target, not you.
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Also, I omitted one AoE in Electric - Lightning Clap, which seems to be similar to Hand Clap. Did not take that one either, but that's a third (or second) PBAoE in the power set.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
I've used it on a Scrapper, Stalker, and a Brute now. It'll be a definite difference for any Tanker. Since Tankers usually have mobs on all sides of them, and with the radius as small as it is, you usually will NOT hit the people behind you. An arc behind you is usually safe, since it's out of the radius. However, if there are mobs behind the one you target, then they will likely be hit, whereas they might not in a normal PBAoE. So it's a give and take there, but for a Tanker in the center of a spawn, it'll likely be more noticeable.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
I assumed it was an AoE; it takes PBAoE sets. For ordinary tanker play, the difference is probably difficult to notice.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Quote:
MAoEs may as well take PBAoE sets. I am not sure if its worth having alternative set.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
I assumed it was an AoE; it takes PBAoE sets. For ordinary tanker play, the difference is probably difficult to notice.
Also, I omitted one AoE in Electric - Lightning Clap, which seems to be similar to Hand Clap. Did not take that one either, but that's a third (or second) PBAoE in the power set. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
Late bloomers, takes a little more intelligence to build and play I thought.
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Originally Posted by StrykerX
Anyone with more experience playing these sets redside care to comment on them?
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He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
honestly thunderstrike in its current position should be a targetted aoe not a pbaoe.
frankly its a horrid pbaoe imo
as far as elec is concerned..i like it and yes its got better s/l resistance then a fire tank so there ya go. the heal is the same as a fire tank if slotted the same of course
Quote:
I'm guilty of dispensing advice on just #s alone, since I crunch a lot of them, but there are times actual experience proves greater. TS has a weak, weak AoE "splash" component. Its ST damage alone is also pretty poor, considering the animation time, so I'm actually really down on the power despite what a lot of ex-Brutes seem to think about it. Anyway, back to the OP|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
I assumed it was an AoE; it takes PBAoE sets. For ordinary tanker play, the difference is probably difficult to notice.
|
ELA has comparable, but slightly higher resist #s than Fire or Dark, and more comprehensive than Fire as well. Dark is even more comprehensive as Elec has a Toxic hole, but heroside, that's not that big a deal. With Tough, all passives, and everything Slotted w/3 SOs, the #'s look like:
Code:
EL FA DA S 79 71 71 L 79 71 71 F 55 90 47 C 55 31 47 E 90 47 31 N 47 47 63 T 0 0 31 P 55 0 79
As for ELM, its ST damage is actually a bit weak (not as bad as, say, Ice Melee), and doesn't hold a candle to Fire Melee, which has some of the highest DPA (and DPE) attacks for tankers, period. What Elec gets is LR, which is just all sorts of broken (in a good way), but it's a slow recharger. Since I only crunch DPA #'s, I usually rely on guys like Stars to show the long term effectiveness of various sets, but I suspect Fire & ELM would be comparable for AoEs (LR does about 80% more DPA than FSC, but recharges in 50% more time; JL > BoF; Combustion >> TS; Elec also gets CI). My gut feeling is, the effective tanker AoE ranking would go like Fire > Elec > SS > Ice.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Quote:
I'd say AOE is Elec's strength... it's not nearly as strong for ST damage. I'm still debating what to do for my own elec/elec. I kind of want to do a Brute to help make up for the weaker ST damage, but who knows when Going Rogue will get here, either, and I rather want to side switch him.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
Electric Melee has 2 PBAOEs (Thunder Strike, Lightning Rod), a narrow cone (Jacob's Ladder), and an attack that, while nominally a single target attack, will jump to other mobs and do damage (Chain Induction). It seems to me to be superior to Fire in its multi-target capacity.
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But anyway, Elec seems a little bit trickier and more "gimmicky" for AOE damage than Fire is. You have to know what you are doing with both to really leverage it, of course, but you really want to know how Elec operates.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
Slight nitpick, Fire gets 20% Toxic resist per use of Healing Flames. Well slotted it is not hard to keep 60% ressits, should you want them. In most battles I end up with 40% at most times.|
Originally Posted by dave_p
Code:
EL FA DA S 79 71 71 L 79 71 71 F 55 90 47 C 55 31 47 E 90 47 31 N 47 47 63 T 0 0 31 P 55 0 79 |
Most of the time you would not ever use Healing Flames for such a purpose, but it is there and does a good job when you need it (ie, lower levels)
As to Elec Melee, I am finding the multi-target aspects to work very well around level 20ish. It takes some planning and positioning but I can regularly hit several mobs at once with little problem. Really looking forward to what it can do at higher levels, especially when paired with SD and paired with Pyre.
Quote:
The heal size is the same, but that's the only similarity. Healing Flames heals 25% of your health every 40s unenhanced, while Energize heals 25% of your health every 120s with a 100% regen buff for 30s.|
Originally Posted by Coldmed
as far as elec is concerned..i like it and yes its got better s/l resistance then a fire tank so there ya go. the heal is the same as a fire tank if slotted the same of course
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(HF also has a 20% toxic res buff on it, while Energize offers ~60% end dicsount for 30s.)
Quote:
How are you going to softcap S/L defense (or an defense for that matter) on Electric? You're starting with no defense at all except Weave and maybe Combat Jumping, so you'd need over 30% S/L defense from IOs. Even if that's possible I can't see getting it without seriously gimping the rest of the build... it seems like going for +HP and +regen (and S/L resists if you can actually afford Gladiator's Strike sets) would be a better build.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
Having actually played all the sets though (though my ELM is still young), ELA definitely feels a bit squishier w/o the uber heals that FA & DA get. Then again, all 3 sets feel a bit squishy (compared to the other sets) until I get some serious IOs into them, so it's a bit early to tell. My gut feeling is, once fully IOed out (and that means soft-capped S/L defense for all of them), ELA will be tougher than Fire, but weaker than Dark.
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Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
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Quote:
Lets do all 3, this is my current Elec/SS Build. |
Originally Posted by StrykerX
How are you going to softcap S/L defense (or an defense for that matter) on Electric? You're starting with no defense at all except Weave and maybe Combat Jumping, so you'd need over 30% S/L defense from IOs. Even if that's possible I can't see getting it without seriously gimping the rest of the build... it seems like going for +HP and +regen (and S/L resists if you can actually afford Gladiator's Strike sets) would be a better build.
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Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Electric Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(3), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(5)
Level 1: Jab -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(11), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Haymaker -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 6: Static Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 8: Super Speed -- Run-I(A)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Energize -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Tr'ge-Heal/Rchg(21), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx(23)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(25), RgnTis-Regen+(27), Numna-Heal(27), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(29), Mrcl-Heal(29)
Level 18: Grounded -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(34), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31)
Level 22: Knockout Blow -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 24: Lightning Field -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 26: Power Sink -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(34), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(34), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(36), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(36), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(36)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Rage -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(37), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 32: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(39), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 35: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), RctvArm-ResDam(40), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(42), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 41: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 44: Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(46), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(48), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(48), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(50), Mocking-Rchg(50)
Level 49: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Just the highlights
45% S/L Defense
79% S/L Resist
54.8% F/C/Psy Resist
2551 HPs
Regens 34 hp per second out of Energize
Regens 55 hp per second in Energize.
Energize is up every 37 seconds with hasten up 48 seconds with it down.
Hasten is down for about 30 seconds give or take.
122.5% Recharge while Hasten is up
Perma Rage has a 30 to 45 second overlap depending on Hasten Drops.
The build takes some work, accolades and such.
Just a note respec build, the slots are all over the place
No Powersurge was a tough choice however I felt this would work better. For those that need powersurge, drop punch for it and put the slots in Brawl to keep the bonuses.
Quote:
I got energize down to 37 seconds that's with 150% +rech that I could easily increase if I wanted to...keep in mind this is an electric armour/energy melee build I through together late last night. This build has pretty average res 78% s/l etc. with very minor defenses roughly 5% to all defense. It also has 413% regen increase because apparently you can do that with IO's on energize but not with SO's? I really think it should allow Heal SO's so it not only increases the heal but the regen effect, since not everyone will be able to IO their builds. That's just my 2 cents though, I've built several other ELA's and will continue to do so to hopefully some real power hidden in it.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
The heal size is the same, but that's the only similarity. Healing Flames heals 25% of your health every 40s unenhanced, while Energize heals 25% of your health every 120s with a 100% regen buff for 30s.
(HF also has a 20% toxic res buff on it, while Energize offers ~60% end dicsount for 30s.) |
Quote:
I softcap S/L def on all my Fire, Dark, WP & Elec toons, scrappers & tanks. Some sacrifice a bit more than others (none too badly, btw), but it's *well* worth it. IK has a good build as an example, though I'd do it a little differently, of course (Zinger in Taunt, more damage for LF for starters |
Originally Posted by StrykerX
How are you going to softcap S/L defense (or an defense for that matter) on Electric? You're starting with no defense at all except Weave and maybe Combat Jumping, so you'd need over 30% S/L defense from IOs. Even if that's possible I can't see getting it without seriously gimping the rest of the build... it seems like going for +HP and +regen (and S/L resists if you can actually afford Gladiator's Strike sets) would be a better build.
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).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Quote:
It takes time, patience, and a moderate amount of inf to do, but it is indeed quite possible. Not that I have the time, patience, or inf to do it. Still, very possible. And definitely very worthwhile.
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Originally Posted by dave_p
I softcap S/L def on all my Fire, Dark, WP & Elec toons, scrappers & tanks. Some sacrifice a bit more than others (none too badly, btw), but it's *well* worth it. IK has a good build as an example, though I'd do it a little differently, of course (Zinger in Taunt, more damage for LF for starters
). |
Quote:
i said the heal was the same..never was talking about the recharge nor the benefits from using either|
Originally Posted by Sarrate
The heal size is the same, but that's the only similarity. Healing Flames heals 25% of your health every 40s unenhanced, while Energize heals 25% of your health every 120s with a 100% regen buff for 30s.
(HF also has a 20% toxic res buff on it, while Energize offers ~60% end dicsount for 30s.) |
your post is kinda snarky ..
Quote:
I elaborated because I could easily see someone misinterpret "the heal is the same" to be the same in all properties (rech, etc) and not just in heal size. I wanted to clear any possible ambiguity.|
Originally Posted by Coldmed
i said the heal was the same..never was talking about the recharge nor the benefits from using either
your post is kinda snarky .. |
There was no intended snark in my post, I'm sorry if you took it as such. It was not my intention at all.
So... assuming a moderate budget (around 100 million or so) for IOs, do you think Electric would be more survivable that Fire? Or would Fire's much faster recharging (since I can't afford a high recharge build) heal outweigh Electric's higher resists? Or is it better to just go softcapped Shield plus Aid Self in that price range, since I think Shield on a Tanker can be softcapped quite cheaply? I'm not really concerned with concept... I'm just looking the most survivable (assuming moderate IOs but nothing really expensive) Tanker primary that has a damage aura or other +damage function like Against All Odds. I'd imagine Willpower would be the best mitigation (aside from Granite) for that level of investment, but it has no increased damage and a weak taunt aura so I'm not really interested in it for this character.
My only real past Tanker experience is a Fire/Fire... I liked it all right but it was a little squishy for what I'm wanting now (soloing 8-man spawns). Plus I changed servers and don't want to pay for a transfer...
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636
I'll ask Kruuunch if he ever gets off Champions...seeing how he is already in RP mode, expect a late response....really late.
From my perspective, I live more with my EA/Fire tank (taunt included) in the later levels, than I do with my Fire/Stone. I just hate being wrong about an armor I always hated, but it survives harder than my fire (No IO's). I miss Dersk...
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
Quote:
I'll live. |
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Note: Thunder Strike isn't a full fledged AoE, it's a st / aoe hybrid. While it deals splash energy damage, the smashing damage is still single target. It also has a smaller than usual radius of 7ft and is centered around the target, not you.
|
Pre-SO range: Elec Armor might just be weaker than Stone, IMO.
Post-SO Range: Haven't played it much prior to SO-range yet, but I'll let you know when I do (My damn Scrappers keep getting in the way of my Tankers for playing lately.).
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
Quote:
You know that its possible to move mobs around with aggro control on a Tanker, right? |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
I've used it on a Scrapper, Stalker, and a Brute now. It'll be a definite difference for any Tanker. Since Tankers usually have mobs on all sides of them, and with the radius as small as it is, you usually will NOT hit the people behind you. An arc behind you is usually safe, since it's out of the radius. However, if there are mobs behind the one you target, then they will likely be hit, whereas they might not in a normal PBAoE. So it's a give and take there, but for a Tanker in the center of a spawn, it'll likely be more noticeable.
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(Before you write a book in reply, yes, I am well aware that you do, Aett.
)
"I never said thank you." - Lt. Gordon
"And you'll never have to." - the Dark Knight
lol I've missed Aett, as much as we both battle each other like decepticon and Autobot, the guy is alright. It's that Dawn lady you have to watch out for...
"If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything"
"You're like Giraffe's, the way you look down on me, with your vegetarian scorn."
Quote:
Comparing Electric's survivability with any of the other sets is a bit difficult, given the factor its endurance drain and debuff resists have. Fire's heal most certainly outweighs Electric's higher resists (except, maybe, in Psi, and definitely in Energy), but sapped mobs are little pansies that aren't going to hurt anybody.|
Originally Posted by StrykerX
So... assuming a moderate budget (around 100 million or so) for IOs, do you think Electric would be more survivable that Fire? Or would Fire's much faster recharging (since I can't afford a high recharge build) heal outweigh Electric's higher resists? Or is it better to just go softcapped Shield plus Aid Self in that price range, since I think Shield on a Tanker can be softcapped quite cheaply? I'm not really concerned with concept... I'm just looking the most survivable (assuming moderate IOs but nothing really expensive) Tanker primary that has a damage aura or other +damage function like Against All Odds. I'd imagine Willpower would be the best mitigation (aside from Granite) for that level of investment, but it has no increased damage and a weak taunt aura so I'm not really interested in it for this character.
My only real past Tanker experience is a Fire/Fire... I liked it all right but it was a little squishy for what I'm wanting now (soloing 8-man spawns). Plus I changed servers and don't want to pay for a transfer... |
Out of all the sets with some kind of damage contribution (which is actually all of them except Invulnerability and Willpower), Fire and Electric are your least survivable. If you're looking for great mitigation along with the damage, then you should be looking elsewhere (Ice Armor's Icicles, Dark Armors' Death Shroud, Stone Armor's Mud Pots, and Shield Defense's AAO and Shield Charge). As it currently stands, the apex predator in the Damage and Survivability department is the soft capped Shield Defense.
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Has anyone crunched the numbers to see where Electric Armor and Electric Melee rank compared to other Tanker sets? From my (admittedly brief) initial examination, it looks like Electric Armor is a good solid resist set that can get very good Smash / Lethal resists (with Tough) and decently high exotic resists, with no psi hole like Invulnerability. Assuming a moderate IO build (say, 100 million inf or so at 50) it looks like it gives Invulnerability some competition for general purpose use but is a bit below Shield (easy to softcap on a Tanker) and Stone, and maybe Willpower. I'm not sure how it compares to Dark... both have active mitigation (end drain and fear). Can Electric Armor fully drain a mob's endurance without Electric Melee paired with it?
Electric Melee seems like it's a bit harder hitting than Fire Melee against single targets but with slightly worse AoE. It's still an AoE heavy set, but I'm not sure it can compete with Fire there since the Tanker version has two PBAoEs. I'm actually wondering if Electric Melee is (from a pure min-maxing standpoint) worth using since Fire seems better for AoE specialists and the "big three" sets are better for general / single target use. Though I do notice Electric Melee has powers with a Sleep effect, which allows slotting IOs not normally found on a Tanker... I wonder if adding Call of the Sandman heal procs would help survivability much?
Anyone with more experience playing these sets redside care to comment on them?
Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name
[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636