Congratulations, you've just realized something that has been known for a very long time: damaging pseudo-pets do the same damage across all ATs.
If you check Lightning Rod, you'll also realize that they all do the same amount of damage. It's not "incorrect". It's thanks to the fact that they all summon the same pseudo-pet and pseudo-pets don't inherit the damage scalar of the AT that summoned them. It's been an oft requested change, if only because it would also allow/force Castle to include crit capability in the Stalker and Scrapper versions of the power(s), but it has yet to be addressed.
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Maybe the tanker version is doing too much?
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Death Shroud:
Tanker: 8.9 Negative damage Scrapper: 12.51 Negative damage Increase: 40.56% Blazing Aura: Tanker: 9.79 Scrapper: 13.76 Increase: 40.55% Shield Charge: Tanker: 133.46 smashing damage Scrapper: 133.46 smashing damage Increase: 0% Proper damage: 187.58 |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Or maybe the scrapper's dmg is right and the tanker's dmg is wrong. If that's the case and they change it, I'm sure several tankers will start looking for you. |
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Death Shroud:
Tanker: 8.9 Negative damage Scrapper: 12.51 Negative damage Increase: 40.56% Blazing Aura: Tanker: 9.79 Scrapper: 13.76 Increase: 40.55% Shield Charge: Tanker: 133.46 smashing damage Scrapper: 133.46 smashing damage Increase: 0% Proper damage: 187.58 |
Seriously, you can't compare shield charge dmg scale to dmg auras. Shield charge is actually a summoned pet so the dmg of the pet's dmg will be the same no matter the AT. Hmm... is this also true for LR?
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
As Umbral has said both are doing the right damage because they are both the same pseudo-pets. That is why I made my Elec/SD not a Scrapper but a Tank. I will be doing the same damage with Lightning Rod and Shield Charge as Scrapper do but will have better defense number...and I really don't care about the ST damage with Elec/SD because Elec sucks at ST damage.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
I wish my damaging psuedo-pets had an archetype multiplier attached to them and they could crit.
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My SD/SS Tanker has heard that one before.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Maybe the tanker version is doing too much?
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i disagree.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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The problem is that they can't attach an AT scalar to psuedo-pets because pseudo-pet is the exact same "AT" across all values. The only way to have pseudo-pets that have different AT scalars (as occurs with the healing pseudo-pets and some of the other damaging pseudo-pets, such as RoA) is to create different pseudo-pets that deal the different amounts of damage and have each AT's specific instance of the power call a different pseudo-pet. I'm not entirely sure why they've done this for some powers and not for others, but I'm hoping that they get to it eventually.
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Originally Posted by Negescape
I wish my damaging psuedo-pets had an archetype multiplier attached to them and they could crit.
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This Irks me incredibly...|
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
As Umbral has said both are doing the right damage because they are both the same pseudo-pets. That is why I made my Elec/SD not a Scrapper but a Tank. I will be doing the same damage with Lightning Rod and Shield Charge as Scrapper do but will have better defense number...and I really don't care about the ST damage with Elec/SD because Elec sucks at ST damage.
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incredibly....
Much...
I went back on test and can easily say though that one the tanker the ST damage was easily noticely less. Yes elec DOES suck for ST damage, so i can't imagine not getting as much of it as you can.
Very annoyed by this as my scrap just hit 35 :/, and it was basically the reason for choosing the scrap :/.
As long as his IOd build is strong enough to last what he needs i suppose its still better off overall as the scrapper, but this really annoys me.
Hopefully they will get this fixed. Or at least create it as a tp, with a pbaoe attack as soon as the tp finishes, and not as a pseudo-pet.
As a pseudopet it does inheret the damage buffs though correct? Not that its much but at least the scrapper build up is 100% damage to them where the tanker is 80%.
Not thinking the extra damage from AAO would last long enough to carry over, unless the damage portion of the power ran a check for buffs at the inital cast of the power, not when the animation "lands".
Either way praying they do something to fix this asap :/.
And yes, the tanker version of Lightning rod is only 140 damage base, where the scrapper version is like 176 base. So tell me WHY lightnign rod can have a higher base damage on a scrapper, but not shield charge???
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If i could hopefully at least see a dev "we'll work on fixing this asap" then i can be happy i have the scrapper a little more, as i WAS originally going to do a tanker but the ST damage was just so low 
.
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Want to know the funny thing? Shield Charge for Tankers/Brutes summons a different pseudopet than Scrappers already.|
Originally Posted by Umbral
The problem is that they can't attach an AT scalar to psuedo-pets because pseudo-pet is the exact same "AT" across all values. The only way to have pseudo-pets that have different AT scalars (as occurs with the healing pseudo-pets and some of the other damaging pseudo-pets, such as RoA) is to create different pseudo-pets that deal the different amounts of damage and have each AT's specific instance of the power call a different pseudo-pet. I'm not entirely sure why they've done this for some powers and not for others, but I'm hoping that they get to it eventually.
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Scrapper Shield Charge -> Scrapper Pseudo Pet:
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* 133.46 Smashing damage * +0.64 Knockback (80% chance) PvE only * +0.64 Knockback (80% chance) If target is a player Suppressed when Knocked, for 10 seconds (WhenInactive) |
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* 133.46 Smashing damage * +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) Raid mob (like Hami), Must hit at -20% * +13.5s Taunt (mag 4) PvE only, not Raid mob (like Hami) * +0.64 Knockback (80% chance) PvE only * +0.64 Knockback (80% chance) If target is a player Suppressed when Knocked, for 10 seconds (WhenInactive) |
Correct me if im wrong but doesn scrapper lightning rod do way more damage?
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It does. Like i said going off the numbers that it shows when you go to the powers info when you create a new character, LR for tanks is about 140 base damage at level 50, and it is about 176 base damage for scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Musey
Correct me if im wrong but doesn scrapper lightning rod do way more damage?
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So there IS a way to separate the two, as also mentioned by sarrate providing the differences between brute shield charge.
Which hence to my original post, the devs seemed to have made a mistake when calculating the scrapper version.
Something i would REALLY like to see them fix asap.
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All of the L-rods were changed this issue (even stalker one eventually!) to adhere to AT specific damage. So in short the scrapper L-rod is pure insanity with base damage of ~200.
Some pseudo-pets are AT specific, some aren't. It is what you'd call inconsistent in application.
I'll care about this the day they make my burn and/or shield charge on my brute have my proper damage cap. 300+% damage going to waste on a damage capped brute using those two powers
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You should be careful what you wish for. They may decide to make the base damage more Brute appropriate as well. |
Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I'll care about this the day they make my burn and/or shield charge on my brute have my proper damage cap. 300+% damage going to waste on a damage capped brute using those two powers
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Exactly, they may well eventually decide that the scrapper version of shield charge and burn is where it should be and do a downward shift for everyone else that has those powers.
I mean it is reasonable to think that L-rod should do more damage than shield charge considering L-rod is in an attack set compared to a defensive set. Sheild charge does cast faster and have a less finicky aoe (or so I've heard, haven't reached L-rod yet on my scrapper, but I hear it dissipates the further from the epicenter it is).
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Exactly, they may well eventually decide that the scrapper version of shield charge and burn is where it should be and do a downward shift for everyone else that has those powers.
I mean it is reasonable to think that L-rod should do more damage than shield charge considering L-rod is in an attack set compared to a defensive set. Sheild charge does cast faster and have a less finicky aoe (or so I've heard, haven't reached L-rod yet on my scrapper, but I hear it dissipates the further from the epicenter it is). |
It would be doing less, scrapper version for LR rechecked is 200, Shield charge "should" be at 187ish, so it would still be doing less than LR, and LR can crit. No way shield charge is doing what it should on a scrapper, or need less damage on other ATs. It is actually too low of damage for its recharge to be honest (at the corrected damage, DPS of only 2ish, every other aoe attack being around 4-5ish), but THAT issue i don't think the devs would like to press at all, but they DEFINITELY should fix its damage for the scrapper AT regardless.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
I'll care about this the day they make my burn and/or shield charge on my brute have my proper damage cap. 300+% damage going to waste on a damage capped brute using those two powers
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/signed
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Can scrapper LR crit? If so only 7 more levels for me!|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
It would be doing less, scrapper version for LR rechecked is 200, Shield charge "should" be at 187ish, so it would still be doing less than LR, and LR can crit. No way shield charge is doing what it should on a scrapper, or need less damage on other ATs. It is actually too low of damage for its recharge to be honest (at the corrected damage, DPS of only 2ish, every other aoe attack being around 4-5ish), but THAT issue i don't think the devs would like to press at all, but they DEFINITELY should fix its damage for the scrapper AT regardless.
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I think it is hard to compare the tele-nukes to traditional aoes as we don't know how much value they attribute to the "tele" part and they provide so much burst damage that we may be getting into a range where normal rules cease to exist.
I'm not opposed to the 133 damage version of shield charge being the brute one and having scrapper/tanks raise proportionally, I just don't know what the devs are thinking as they already do use different pseudo-pets. I know I wasn't going to roll an elec scrapper until they actually boosted LR to be AT specific. I've always though it is pretty lame for the same strength powers to be shared across AT's that are decidedly different in strength.
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Which is why i'm not pressing that they get their TRUE damage according to their DPS, but shield charge should DEFINITELY be doing the appropriate damage for the scrapper AT.| I think it is hard to compare the tele-nukes to traditional aoes as we don't know how much value they attribute to the "tele" part and they provide so much burst damage that we may be getting into a range where normal rules cease to exist. |
As they already have the scrapper version doing more damage than the tanker version, there is NO reason why shield charge shouldn't be AT proper as well.
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You mean like increasing it?|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
You should be careful what you wish for. They may decide to make the base damage more Brute appropriate as well.
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Because y'know Brutes had /fire Looong before scrappers so we'd have gotten it from tanks.
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Or blasters. Think about it.
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Originally Posted by Chaos Creator
You mean like increasing it?
Because y'know Brutes had /fire Looong before scrappers so we'd have gotten it from tanks. |
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
Shield Charge all do 133 damage across all AT's, there is a difference in taunt between the AT's that is all. I also really don't think l-rod crits for scrappers, though I'd like to find out otherwise in a handful of levels.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
As they already have the scrapper version doing more damage than the tanker version, there is NO reason why shield charge shouldn't be AT proper as well.
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Where are you getting 187 damage for the scrapper version from? I'm just curious.
While I agree that each AT should have their own version of psuedo pets, SC is pretty far down the list of ones needing to be rectified if you were to start tackling them in chronological order.
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Easy, the difference it should be when ported to the scrapper version from the tank version.| Where are you getting 187 damage for the scrapper version from? I'm just curious. |
Look at LR, 200ish scrapper version, 140ish tanker version. 200/140 = 1.429
1.429 x 133ish = 190ish damage that shield charge SHOULD be doing.
And having a power that goes into the balancing of a power set not having the correct value per AT is a HUGE deal. If you want to go about it like that, why not just let the scrapper version of the defense toggles have the tanker values until they fix shield charge's damgage on scrappers. I mean, if it makes no difference right...
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Death Shroud:
Tanker: 8.9 Negative damage
Scrapper: 12.51 Negative damage
Increase: 40.56%
Blazing Aura:
Tanker: 9.79
Scrapper: 13.76
Increase: 40.55%
Shield Charge:
Tanker: 133.46 smashing damage
Scrapper: 133.46 smashing damage
Increase: 0%
Proper damage: 187.58
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Plasmic Fire - 50 Fire/Rad Victory Server