Not missing the issue, SC is better with or without AAO, I thought that was clear with it being stated several times now. The fact that AAO is an option to boost SC further just makes it moreso.
You can feel what you feel, but the math just isn't on your side here and neither is actual gameplay experience.
You'd have been much better picking a Brute to compare damage aura vs brute SC and even then it would only be closer because so much of fury is wasted on the brute version of SC due to the low damage ceiling of pseudo-pets.
Auras are barely comparable vs a single target you see that right?
So:
which hits more targets?
which hits a bigger area?
bigger area and more targets equates to more targets hit more easily.
If we go back to the SO numbers of blazing aura vs SC (best case scenario for auras as more rech just benefits SC so much more). We have:
Aura
14.9 dps vs st
vs 10 targets (gl w/ that)
149 dps
*gl getting 10 in the aura consistently and gl having constant enemies to stick in the aura.
SC vs 16 targets
w/ no AAO
197 dps
w/ 3 in AAO
219.4 dps
w/ full AAO
251.4 dps
Like I said it is better w/ or w/o AAO by a landslide. You're welcome to show how burst aoe isn't a huge benefit in the way this game is played, but that will prove to be a difficult task. (outside of solo'ing set as 1 hero).
I seriously doubt they are going to reduce SC anytime in the near future on the heels of a massively huge buff, but the position you are taking is not supported by any of the evidence.
Quote:
Umm you already did ~750 damage to the bosses with the initial casting of SC, which means the aura has to run for close to a minute to catch up vs that boss.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Like i said, single event, yes for SC, but that ALSO leads to issues of use. Damage auras, are being used during the initial attack, and all the way through the rest of the battle, including when killing bosses when SC is recharged, and the damge aura is still helping to damage the boss, while SC just sits thre on the tray recharged. I'm sure your not going to use it on that one or two bosses you're fighting.
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Unless you are talking about solo'ing set as one you are going to be casting SC vs groups of enemies. I've already pointed out the very select circumstances that a damage aura can be better.
Oh I see what you are saying, you're saying that group defeat time > SC recharge time. That just doesn't gel with in game experience on virtually and team I've been on with my bs/shield and I rightly suspect will be even less of a factor with 1.5x as much damage on it heh. Far more often I'm wishing for an even faster rech on SC because we defeated the previous group so quickly.
Well you have to sit on SC for a loooong time for the aura to catch up. A long time.
maybe i am just crazy, but don't you think the Tanker SC should do more then the scrapper version simply because its in the Tankers primary power set and should be better then a secondary set?,,... i mean who is supposed to be better with the shield?
for example , if tanks got broadsword should Parry add 30% to melee def just because tanks are better at taking a butt kicking in their primary sets?
what about radiation for defenders vs controllers? should EM pulse do a mag 4 hold for controllers and a mag 2 for defenders? just because controllers are better at holds? i think some lines are being crossed asking for more from a Secondary then is offered to someone that has the power set as their Primary.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Not missing the issue, SC is better with or without AAO, I thought that was clear with it being stated several times now. The fact that AAO is an option to boost SC further just makes it moreso.
You can feel what you feel, but the math just isn't on your side here and neither is actual gameplay experience. You'd have been much better picking a Brute to compare damage aura vs brute SC and even then it would only be closer because so much of fury is wasted on the brute version of SC due to the low damage ceiling of pseudo-pets. Auras are barely comparable vs a single target you see that right? So: which hits more targets? which hits a bigger area? bigger area and more targets equates to more targets hit more easily. If we go back to the SO numbers of blazing aura vs SC (best case scenario for auras as more rech just benefits SC so much more). We have: Aura 14.9 dps vs st vs 10 targets (gl w/ that) 149 dps *gl getting 10 in the aura consistently and gl having constant enemies to stick in the aura. SC vs 16 targets w/ no AAO 197 dps w/ 3 in AAO 219.4 dps w/ full AAO 251.4 dps Like I said it is better w/ or w/o AAO by a landslide. You're welcome to show how burst aoe isn't a huge benefit in the way this game is played, but that will prove to be a difficult task. (outside of solo'ing set as 1 hero). I seriously doubt they are going to reduce SC anytime in the near future on the heels of a massively huge buff, but the position you are taking is not supported by any of the evidence. |
You obviously aren't getting what I'm saying at all nor can see where each can fit into different situations to their strengths and weaknesses.
And you NEED to STOP adding in AAO to your equations if you're not going to add it to the damage aura side as well. AAO is NOT part of shield charge, its part of SHIELD DEFENSE. Yes they are used in conjunction, but AAO does NOT go into factoring how SC works at all. We are comparing SC to a damage aura, not SC + AAO to a damage aura. That makes no sense. I don't know how i can explain that more to you, or why you don't seem to grasp that concept.
We're not comparing the damage from shield defense to that of say fire or dark, we are comparing SHIELD CHARGE to a DAMAGE aura. AAO is either NOT included in both situations, or IS included in BOTH situations. The fact that you for some reason can't seem to inlcude AAO in your damage aura calculations shows that both you are missing the point, and are not understanding the argument at all.
I've showed my points, and the numbers, multiple times now. You've showed your numbers, which again, do not inlcude equal conditions. So what's even the point of comparing. You also neglected to still factor in the time wasted because you (should) be waiting to use it for the next spawn so you don't waste it, and likewise is not always up exactly at the beginning of the next spawn and have to wait some to use it as well, this is not even factoring what happens when you get in battle with -rech powers. The power is NOT an ideal aoe attack. Its got that BOOM effect yes, but it is nowhere near the holy grail you claim it out to be.
For the exact same reasons that a normal aoe attack has benefits over both a damage aura and power like shield charge. They are both relatively comparible powers, with each having their own particular use. Again, if SC is doing as much damage as proposed, to start, the mob will be dead soon, but then you won't be able to use SC at all for the next mob because it will be recharging. Which shows, that different situations, shine for each power.
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Quote:
Emphasis mine.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
And you NEED to STOP adding in AAO to your equations if you're not going to add it to the damage aura side as well. AAO is NOT part of shield charge, its part of SHIELD DEFENSE. Yes they are used in conjunction, but AAO does NOT go into factoring how SC works at all. We are comparing SC to a damage aura, not SC + AAO to a damage aura. That makes no sense. I don't know how i can explain that more to you, or why you don't seem to grasp that concept.
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Which damage aura can be combined with AAO? Every character with Shield Defense has access to AAO, and the powers in the set will be balanced around each other, as well as on an individual basis.
The ONLY damage aura I can think of that's available in a scrapper or brute primany, or tank secondary comes from Spines, and Spines can't be combined with Shields.
I'm not really interested in the argument at hand, I just wanted to point out how preposterous your insistence on applying AAO to Blazing Aura or the like.
Perhaps you would be better off insisting that the full powerset be taken into account, ie AAO+Shield Charge vs. Fiery Embrace+Blazing Aura.
@Roderick
Quote:
I disagree. My SS/SD Brute (Which has the lowest SC damage) is able to Foot Stomp + Shield Charge to clear all the minions of the mob and, depending on fury, all the Lieutenants. Then, in the time it takes to mop up the couple bosses and run to the next spawn, by the time my Foot Stomp hits, my Shield Charge is recharged and ready to fire again. It is somewhat less reliable when Hasten is down but still plenty close enough that I get to use it every spawn. Add the fact that it is providing both mitigation in the initial Knockdown and the fact that it is killing over 2/3rds of a spawn and yes, it is a Holy Grail power.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
For the exact same reasons that a normal aoe attack has benefits over both a damage aura and power like shield charge. They are both relatively comparible powers, with each having their own particular use. Again, if SC is doing as much damage as proposed, to start, the mob will be dead soon, but then you won't be able to use SC at all for the next mob because it will be recharging. Which shows, that different situations, shine for each power.
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And this is just with Hasten + 5% Recharge from CI and +20% from an empowerment table. I'm terrified to see how often it will be up with my final build that includes perma-hasten.
Quote:
Dude if you can't see in the examples I've shown the numbers for no AAO as well and it is still crushing the aura then I can't help you.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
You obviously aren't getting what I'm saying at all nor can see where each can fit into different situations to their strengths and weaknesses.
And you NEED to STOP adding in AAO to your equations if you're not going to add it to the damage aura side as well. AAO is NOT part of shield charge, its part of SHIELD DEFENSE. Yes they are used in conjunction, but AAO does NOT go into factoring how SC works at all. We are comparing SC to a damage aura, not SC + AAO to a damage aura. That makes no sense. I don't know how i can explain that more to you, or why you don't seem to grasp that concept. We're not comparing the damage from shield defense to that of say fire or dark, we are comparing SHIELD CHARGE to a DAMAGE aura. AAO is either NOT included in both situations, or IS included in BOTH situations. The fact that you for some reason can't seem to inlcude AAO in your damage aura calculations shows that both you are missing the point, and are not understanding the argument at all. I've showed my points, and the numbers, multiple times now. You've showed your numbers, which again, do not inlcude equal conditions. So what's even the point of comparing. You also neglected to still factor in the time wasted because you (should) be waiting to use it for the next spawn so you don't waste it, and likewise is not always up exactly at the beginning of the next spawn and have to wait some to use it as well, this is not even factoring what happens when you get in battle with -rech powers. The power is NOT an ideal aoe attack. Its got that BOOM effect yes, but it is nowhere near the holy grail you claim it out to be. For the exact same reasons that a normal aoe attack has benefits over both a damage aura and power like shield charge. They are both relatively comparible powers, with each having their own particular use. Again, if SC is doing as much damage as proposed, to start, the mob will be dead soon, but then you won't be able to use SC at all for the next mob because it will be recharging. Which shows, that different situations, shine for each power. |
I'm not looking at powers in a vacuum because that is stupid, I'm looking at the sets as a whole. AAO is part of shields, most people use it and that is why I give numbers for 0, 3, and full AAO (0 and 3 represent someone who sucks at using it). If you want more I can do that, but it won't make SC any worse than 0 in AAO
. I also factor in BU and FE over time for the aura. I honestly don't see how I can be any more impartial. I'm not the one that set BU and SC to be on the exact same timer...You seriously need to get off the idea that AAO should be added to damage auras, I'll entertain that idea no more than I would the idea that FE should be added to shield charge...Asking for conditions that are impossible ingame is just being asinine. Intentionally or otherwise.
All I can say is that if you aren't experiencing SC drastically outperforming your damage aura in game then it is a case of user error because you need to pretty much intentionally use SC wrong for the damage auras to compete.
Things to remember next time:
16 targets >10 targets
20ft > 8ft
Burst AoE damage > Dot AoE damage in CoX - always has been, likely always will be.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roderick
Emphasis mine.
Which damage aura can be combined with AAO? Every character with Shield Defense has access to AAO, and the powers in the set will be balanced around each other, as well as on an individual basis. The ONLY damage aura I can think of that's available in a scrapper or brute primany, or tank secondary comes from Spines, and Spines can't be combined with Shields. I'm not really interested in the argument at hand, I just wanted to point out how preposterous your insistence on applying AAO to Blazing Aura or the like. Perhaps you would be better off insisting that the full powerset be taken into account, ie AAO+Shield Charge vs. Fiery Embrace+Blazing Aura. |
Lol, you're not understanding either. The reference was comparing a damage aura, to shield charge. Yes its NOT in the shield set. But COMPARING the two, when i said i'd prefer it, it clearly means having a damage aura in place of SC in which it would be benefitting from AAO. Not seeing how that's a hard concept to follow. I'm NOT comparing SC + AAO to a damage aura in another set. We're comparing only SC, to only a damage aura, or both SC + AAO to a damage aura + AAO. When comparing powers, you're not adding other powers to the mix, because the situation for the powers are mutually swappable.
Its like trying to say that Haymaker is better than Bone smasher, SIMPLY becasue its in a set that has a perma 80% damage buff, you just can't do it like that when comparing two individual powers.
If you want to compare Shield Charge + AAO to another damage aura without AAO, of COURSE its going to be more damage, what is the point of comparing when the other power gets an 81% damage boost? Its like comparing apples to a used napkin, what? exactly, makes no sense.
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Quote:
That's my point exactly. You're not looking in the vacuum. Its not stupid, cause when comparing the two powers, so say that one is better than the other you have to use points where, exactly as i was saying, there would be a damage aura INSTEAD of shield charge.| I'm not looking at powers in a vacuum because that is stupid, I'm looking at the sets as a whole. AAO is part of shields, most people use it and that is why I give numbers for 0, 3, and full AAO (0 and 3 represent someone who sucks at using it). If you want more I can do that, but it won't make SC any worse than 0 in AAO . I also factor in BU and FE over time for the aura. I honestly don't see how I can be any more impartial. I'm not the one that set BU and SC to be on the exact same timer... |
Quote:
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Things to remember next time: 16 targets >10 targets 20ft > 8ft Burst AoE damage > Dot AoE damage in CoX - always has been, likely always will be. |
You won't be using SC exactly when its recharged, waiting to use it on the next spawn. I won't even bother to use it unless there are enough enemies in range, otherwise its a waste for the most part.
You won't be using it in the small mobs, meaning that for all instances the damage aura will be helping you the entire time you wouldn't even consider using shield charge. No, we have, and i agree its not the burst damage that shield charge is. But the nature of the power also has it working during many other instances you wouldn't be using shield charge.
Procs
Slows
Consistency
Even had a nice little bug last night, That for some reason happens to FSC as well, where i casted it directly in the middle of the mob. Hit no enemies, didn't say miss, just acted like the power never went off at all.
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A damage aura from a shield lol. That is probably one of the most laughable things I've heard in a while. Seriously what am I going to do spin around with my shield hitting everything around me? lol no thanks.
You may not like shield charge as it is but numerous people do. I use shield charge like a PBAoE attack power. Run in Soul Drain > AAO > Shield Charge everything is usually dead after that.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
That's how I read it - as "What if we swapped out Shield Charge for a damage aura?" But I'd say that your meaning was obviously not clear to others, since it was so widely not understood. |
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
But COMPARING the two, when i said i'd prefer it, it clearly means having a damage aura in place of SC in which it would be benefitting from AAO. Not seeing how that's a hard concept to follow.
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And Santorican, I don't think he was suggesting that it SHOULD be swapped out. Obviously Shield Charge makes MUCH more sense thematically. It was an argument about whether or not Shield Charge is now OVERPOWERED, not about if we should swap the powers around. Saying that he'd rather have a damage aura wasn't a SUGGESTION, it was a COMPARISON to support the position that Shield Charge wasn't overpowered.
I don't personally have a dog in this hunt. I didn't even review the math. Shield Charge is great. It will probably soon be even better. But it won't be enough to make me IO out my Broad Sword/Shields instead of my Katana/Dark, and it won't affect my Shields/Dark Melee Tank (much).
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
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Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quote:
I understood what he was saying from the start. It is just irrelevant like I already said. It can be fun to pretend, but beyond that serves little purpose.|
Originally Posted by Werner
That's how I read it - as "What if we swapped out Shield Charge for a damage aura?" But I'd say that your meaning was obviously not clear to others, since it was so widely not understood.
And Santorican, I don't think he was suggesting that it SHOULD be swapped out. Obviously Shield Charge makes MUCH more sense thematically. It was an argument about whether or not Shield Charge is now OVERPOWERED, not about if we should swap the powers around. Saying that he'd rather have a damage aura wasn't a SUGGESTION, it was a COMPARISON to support the position that Shield Charge wasn't overpowered. I don't personally have a dog in this hunt. I didn't even review the math. Shield Charge is great. It will probably soon be even better. But it won't be enough to make me IO out my Broad Sword/Shields instead of my Katana/Dark, and it won't affect my Shields/Dark Melee Tank (much). |
Besides I more than covered what a damage aura would do with AAO in the example where I used a claws/Fa with double follow up and FE(over time), which is more damage than saturated AAO would offer. I'm unsure what other scenarios he wants because SC is better without AAO, with AAO, and every iteration between. That doesn't make SC evil or in need of a nerf, but it does make FA look pretty bad and I happen to really like FA and have been of the conviction (along with many others) that FA needs more. Meanwhile the idea that FA would be too strong with more offense was used as a deterent, but I think that falls to pieces in light of what Shields brings to the table.
Quote:
*LARGE SIGH*|
Originally Posted by Santorican
A damage aura from a shield lol. That is probably one of the most laughable things I've heard in a while. Seriously what am I going to do spin around with my shield hitting everything around me? lol no thanks.
You may not like shield charge as it is but numerous people do. I use shield charge like a PBAoE attack power. Run in Soul Drain > AAO > Shield Charge everything is usually dead after that. |
I LIKE shield charge, and i'm not saying that shields SHOULD get a damage aura, or that it would make sense. I said i'd prefer one yes. Never said SC was bad, well pre-buff it defintely irked me. It's ok now though.
Again, no laughing, i NEVER said shield SHOULD get a damage aura, it makes no sense correct. I was COMPARING two powers, thats all.
Some shields it would make sense though, like the elemental/dark shields ie like lighting field/blazing aura/death shroud. Or in general shields that have spikes on them that jab nearby enemies as you move around. But digressing, that is not what i said should happen.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Werner
That's how I read it - as "What if we swapped out Shield Charge for a damage aura?" But I'd say that your meaning was obviously not clear to others, since it was so widely not understood.
And Santorican, I don't think he was suggesting that it SHOULD be swapped out. Obviously Shield Charge makes MUCH more sense thematically. It was an argument about whether or not Shield Charge is now OVERPOWERED, not about if we should swap the powers around. Saying that he'd rather have a damage aura wasn't a SUGGESTION, it was a COMPARISON to support the position that Shield Charge wasn't overpowered. I don't personally have a dog in this hunt. I didn't even review the math. Shield Charge is great. It will probably soon be even better. But it won't be enough to make me IO out my Broad Sword/Shields instead of my Katana/Dark, and it won't affect my Shields/Dark Melee Tank (much). |
*5 claps for werner* He got it!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
I understood what he was saying from the start. It is just irrelevant like I already said. It can be fun to pretend, but beyond that serves little purpose.
Besides I more than covered what a damage aura would do with AAO in the example where I used a claws/Fa with double follow up and FE(over time), which is more damage than saturated AAO would offer. I'm unsure what other scenarios he wants because SC is better without AAO, with AAO, and every iteration between. That doesn't make SC evil or in need of a nerf, but it does make FA look pretty bad and I happen to really like FA and have been of the conviction (along with many others) that FA needs more. Meanwhile the idea that FA would be too strong with more offense was used as a deterent, but I think that falls to pieces in light of what Shields brings to the table. |
Shield defense is definitely more damage than fire armor. Never said it wasn't. And i'm not pretending, i'm comparing. Saying you understand apparently doesn't seem to mean you actually do.
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Quote:
Your comparing things that aren't possible in the game. Which means you are pretending. If you want to pretend a new set coming out will have AAO and a damage aura then fine, but it will probably be the lower base damage auras rather than blazing aura. And SC will still be better than it.|
Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Shield defense is definitely more damage than fire armor. Never said it wasn't. And i'm not pretending, i'm comparing. Saying you understand apparently doesn't seem to mean you actually do.
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In the mean time I've shown that SC is numerically better with or without AAO than the best damage aura available to scrappers. Really there is nothing to debate on that other than arguing that burst aoe is not of greater value than aoe dot, or that a larger aoe is not better than a smaller one. You're welcome to pursue that if you want, you are good at pretending.
SC makes damage auras look bad numerically and in actual game play. Period. Shields as a whole makes the other +offensive armor set look horrible with just SO's (strictly speaking of the +offense aspect) and in the meta game of IO's it stomps all over other offensive options even giving things like Blaster Archery a run for its money.
If you want to disregard what actually happens in the game then be my guest as you've made it abundantly clear that is your intention. You started out making claims that simply aren't true and I showed that to which you've done nothing but say I should use my imagination and pretend AAO either doesn't exist or exists for damage auras too. I pretended it doesn't exist and you still aren't satisfied. I'll make you a deal, I'll add in AAO to a damage aura, but I'm adding FE to SC too and giving it a 500% cap. Hey were doing hypothetical things that aren't possible in game so why not right?
Anyway, no one is trying to get SC nerfed so you can pull your head out of the sand now. It's safe to accept reality (or ingame reality at any rate).
Quote:
Tanks are tougher. Scrappers are better at doing damage. Tanks get better numbers survival numbers out of Shield Defense, Scrappers get damage numbers out of Shield Defense.|
Originally Posted by Mercuryflux
maybe i am just crazy, but don't you think the Tanker SC should do more then the scrapper version simply because its in the Tankers primary power set and should be better then a secondary set?,,... i mean who is supposed to be better with the shield?
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And on the subject you mention in the next post - yes, if tanks get a set with Parry, it should provide 20% defense (not 30%) because Scrapper defense values are supposed to be 75% as good as Tanker values. Regardless of primary set vs. secondary set, Scrappers are better at damage, Tankers are better at survival.
TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
Indeed. Primary/secondary are not actually what determine what you're "better" at. They just determine what powerset you get powers earlier with.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Werner
That's how I read it - as "What if we swapped out Shield Charge for a damage aura?" But I'd say that your meaning was obviously not clear to others, since it was so widely not understood.
And Santorican, I don't think he was suggesting that it SHOULD be swapped out. Obviously Shield Charge makes MUCH more sense thematically. It was an argument about whether or not Shield Charge is now OVERPOWERED, not about if we should swap the powers around. Saying that he'd rather have a damage aura wasn't a SUGGESTION, it was a COMPARISON to support the position that Shield Charge wasn't overpowered. I don't personally have a dog in this hunt. I didn't even review the math. Shield Charge is great. It will probably soon be even better. But it won't be enough to make me IO out my Broad Sword/Shields instead of my Katana/Dark, and it won't affect my Shields/Dark Melee Tank (much). |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
*LARGE SIGH*
I LIKE shield charge, and i'm not saying that shields SHOULD get a damage aura, or that it would make sense. I said i'd prefer one yes. Never said SC was bad, well pre-buff it defintely irked me. It's ok now though. Again, no laughing, i NEVER said shield SHOULD get a damage aura, it makes no sense correct. I was COMPARING two powers, thats all. Some shields it would make sense though, like the elemental/dark shields ie like lighting field/blazing aura/death shroud. Or in general shields that have spikes on them that jab nearby enemies as you move around. But digressing, that is not what i said should happen. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Quote:
Heh, i was kinda thinking something like Deflective shards or something, ie what deflects off the shield bounces off of it and hits the nearby enemy. Only problem is that thematically requires you to be attacked, would be an interesting method to be applied in game though hmmm.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
I was simply pointing out how comical it would be IF shield defense got a damage aura. It'd be like stalkers with a shield, now you see me, now you don't.
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Damage reflection of some kind in the game would be awesome.
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Originally Posted by Windenergy21
Heh, i was kinda thinking something like Deflective shards or something, ie what deflects off the shield bounces off of it and hits the nearby enemy. Only problem is that thematically requires you to be attacked, would be an interesting method to be applied in game though hmmm.
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I'm rubber you're glue...
Yes AAO + damage aura would be sweet. Not as good as AAO with SC though. Heck I showed well beyond what a hypothetical AAO w/ aura would be with double followup+FE on a high rech claws/fire (the absolute best possible performance you can get out of an aura btw, yes better than double rage w/ high fury brute blazing aura) and it still wasn't as good as equal recharge AAO+SC for scrappers
They are comparable sure, but then that means overlooking the value of extreme aoe burst damage that is a huge radius and makes the assumption that you are constantly fueling your damage aura, which simply is not the case (or very rarely). Every second you aren't hitting someone with your aura makes SC pull further and further ahead.
On top of the huge aoe vs the tiny aoe SC hits 16 targets and auras hit 10. If we pretended it was hard to hit 16 targets with a 20ft aoe then it is almost impossible to fit 10 targets into an 8ft aoe, but in actual gameplay it is very easy to hit 16 w/ SC and only about 7 or 8 w/ auras.
It's also vs Blazing aura which is at least 9% better than the next best aura(s)
Seriously SC is better than any aura w/ or w/o AAO, (even better than the blaster auras w/ aim and bu factored in) the fact that the set has AAO and no sets with auras do just drives another stake into the matter.
I like SC, but the scrapper version is so much better than auras that while I wouldn't put it on par with old PSW for doms it is causing me to reminisce.
Don't get me wrong, I'm using it on my BS/shield and I'm looking forward to when this patches to live and I can trivialize the rest of my team (especially blasters) even more, but come on.
Edit: using your 40 second cycle time the aura costs 20.8 end vs 13.5 for SC. It isn't until you slot ~60% end reduc in the aura that they end up costing the same. So SC is more damage, more valuable aoe burst damage (in most scenarios), way bigger aoe, hits more targets, provides good mitigation, and costs less endurance. Like Nihilli keeps saying, is there any reason to play anything other than shields? (aside from concept or lockedout combos).
And yes, SC costs less endurance, but its an equal exchange. While you have to slot the damage aura for end reduction, you ALSO have to slot shield charge for recharge, instead of endurance reduction. You only mentioned 60% end reduction, when i'm SURE you are also slotting at least 90% recharge on shield charge. You're viewing the differences on too limited of a basis. Again, add just one damage proc in each power as well, factor in that you are not using it exactly when its ready, due to waiting to use it on the new spawn.
Like i said, single event, yes for SC, but that ALSO leads to issues of use. Damage auras, are being used during the initial attack, and all the way through the rest of the battle, including when killing bosses when SC is recharged, and the damge aura is still helping to damage the boss, while SC just sits thre on the tray recharged. I'm sure your not going to use it on that one or two bosses you're fighting.
FYI, already showed the disparity in scrapper vs brute values. If you are having a constant buff by follow up, the scrapper version would easily pull ahead of the brute value, even with high fury.
And if you don't want to spend millions of inlfuence on a build to make it actually sturdy, then by FAR there are MANY reasons not to play a shielder.
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