What is the best way to build a /WP scrapper?
By
BlackBellatrix,
Posted on: 2009-09-22 11:01 in Scrappers
Yeah, you take a DPS class then state that one of the things that boost that DPS is a crutch ?? WTH? Your failing in it's use does not make it a crutch. Personally I have 2 "build up" type powers in my scrapper and blaster builds. I've never had a problem using them....
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As I said, personal opinion that not many agree with. I've never found a time when having build-up was the difference between winning and losing a fight, and generally pick out powers that are more useful to me in the long run. That's all.
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Originally Posted by Nintova
Yeah, you take a DPS class then state that one of the things that boost that DPS is a crutch ?? WTH? Your failing in it's use does not make it a crutch. Personally I have 2 "build up" type powers in my scrapper and blaster builds. I've never had a problem using them....
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they used to ride the Tour de France on singlespeeds. Then, a woman (normal, everyday, ordinary, non-professional) raced the reigning Tour De France winner up Mont Ventoux. He used a single speed. She used a 3 speed. She kicked his everlovin a$$, and that, as they say, is history.
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Originally Posted by Phoebe_Ponderas
I personally don't think buildup is anything more than a crutch. If you need it to survive you've done something wrong with your build.
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We're also talking about spines. And Phoebe's build had both quills and focused accuracy, two notorious end hogs. We're not doing it wrong, we just know what we're talking about.
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Originally Posted by Whisky_Jack
We are talking about Willpower here, correct? Endurance issues? You're doing something wrong. QR + Stamina on my FM/WP toon meant I never saw my blue bar move, and thats with me going out of my way to slot my toggles and attacks neglecting endurance reduction.
I'm not saying, I'm just saying...  |
Sorry Phoebe, I still dislike your build, but ultimately you have to be the one happy with it.
WP works on a layered approach: defense (mostly typed), resistance and regen. Your build pretty much ignores the second part. IMO that's a mistake. My build had both Mind over Body and Tough decently slotted. The resistance works to mitigate big spikes of damage and let's your regen work. Defense and regeneration are both awful in dealing with damage spikes, especially against foes who can both debuff defense and regeneration (e.g, Arachnos, Malta)
If you're into building up defense at the cost of everything else, why not just roll a SR scrapper? It would be cheaper (both to soft cap and get a decent regen rate) and due to scaling resists, you'd have what you're looking for. It wouldn't have WP-class regen, but I think it would be more effective than your build.
As for not taking build up. I reiterate that not taking it is a major mistake. You're throwing away a 100% damage boost (that's 100% buffing towards scrapper damage mods, not tanker mods) every 30 seconds or so. Maybe it's okay to bypass it for teaming type tanks, but for a damage class, while it's not required, it's self gimping.
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Agreed. That's probably a better way to go than 6 multistrikes.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
If you're only worried about end reduc, why not frankenslot it with Erradication / something else? For example:
Erradication (lvl30): Dmg, Acc/Dmg/Rech, Acc/Dmg/Rech/End Scirocco's Dervish (lvl50): Acc/Dmg/End Multi Strike (lvl50): Acc/Dmg/End Generic (lvl50): End Reduc Would leave you with 74.5% acc, 96.4% dmg, 95% end reduc, 32.63% rech (worthless, I know). It would also have +1.8 max end and the very useful 3.13% e/ne def. Compared to Multi Strike's 0.94% s/l/f/c def, I think it's a much better investment... more expensive, though. |
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I actually just posted another thread asking something similar to this. After going through Willpower so much I'm starting to lean a bit more towards /Shields or /Reflexes. Granted that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the massive amount of advice here, but that advice may have pushed me off a bit towards a possibly more appropriate powerset. The problem is picking between those two. Both can soft-cap relatively easily, both have some different advantages...|
Originally Posted by Fury Flechette
Sorry Phoebe, I still dislike your build, but ultimately you have to be the one happy with it.
WP works on a layered approach: defense (mostly typed), resistance and regen. Your build pretty much ignores the second part. IMO that's a mistake. My build had both Mind over Body and Tough decently slotted. The resistance works to mitigate big spikes of damage and let's your regen work. Defense and regeneration are both awful in dealing with damage spikes, especially against foes who can both debuff defense and regeneration (e.g, Arachnos, Malta) If you're into building up defense at the cost of everything else, why not just roll a SR scrapper? It would be cheaper (both to soft cap and get a decent regen rate) and due to scaling resists, you'd have what you're looking for. It wouldn't have WP-class regen, but I think it would be more effective than your build. As for not taking build up. I reiterate that not taking it is a major mistake. You're throwing away a 100% damage boost (that's 100% buffing towards scrapper damage mods, not tanker mods) every 30 seconds or so. Maybe it's okay to bypass it for teaming type tanks, but for a damage class, while it's not required, it's self gimping. |
Which do you think would play with the +8/+0 mob groups better? If both have soft-cap I would assume the shields for the damage. On the other hand SR has better defense debuff resistance and can hit the softcap just a little easier. But it offers no offense at all except the quickness ability.
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Oh that's easy. If you plan on keeping spines then /SR is your "only" option between the two. Can't use spines with /SD.
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Originally Posted by Phoebe_Ponderas
I actually just posted another thread asking something similar to this. After going through Willpower so much I'm starting to lean a bit more towards /Shields or /Reflexes. Granted that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the massive amount of advice here, but that advice may have pushed me off a bit towards a possibly more appropriate powerset. The problem is picking between those two. Both can soft-cap relatively easily, both have some different advantages...
Which do you think would play with the +8/+0 mob groups better? If both have soft-cap I would assume the shields for the damage. On the other hand SR has better defense debuff resistance and can hit the softcap just a little easier. But it offers no offense at all except the quickness ability. |
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
So I noticed. Hmm...off to make a new thread. Peek at it for me please? Pretty please? Or just post here because the title thing borked on me >_< OY! lol...
[pasted from other thread]
After a long time posting in another thread about Willpower it has somewhat come to my attention that Willpower is my favorite set (on a tank) and that maybe I should try focusing on something a little different for my scrapper. Since I seem to have such a love of trying to softcap defenses I wanted to give Shields or SR a shot. So I created two builds for the fun of it and now need some help deciding which I should be messing around with. I do not want to do both, I'm getting so insanely tired of leveling from 1-20 testing new chars.
What I want is the ability to solo a +8/+0 spawn. Nothing more is needed beyond that, doesn't have to be super fast, doesn't have to be a cheap build (and won't be knowing me), I just want to be able to do it. If you tell me I can do it without all the sets I'm setting up thats an even bigger bonus. Anyway, I have it narrowed down...
Dark/Shields: Yea yea, the "uber" build. I personally dislike shields for the most part but I see a lot of advantages in it if I can make a concept I enjoy. The damage buffs are a huge boon, and gives the dark set a good AoE in shield charge.
Dark/SR: Basically the same thing as Dark/Shield but it lacks the damage and AoE...hmm...maybe not. But maybe?
Spines/SR: Gets good AoE, some nice dots, stacking slows, and the defenses to sit in the middle of mobs without getting squashed. Also does not need Weave of the defense IO's to soft-cap all positional defenses, huge bonus right there. But again, lacks the damage of Dark/Shields unless you think spines can make up for that? Not so sure honestly.
Elec/SR and Elec/Shield were considerations also, mostly for the same reason Spines is in there. Good AoE and a damage type not as commonly resisted.
Anyway, as of right now, a Dark/Shield and a Spines/SR are the two I'm leaning most heavily towards playing right now, although I'm always up for suggestions.
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Of the choices you listed, and if cost isn't a consideration then electric/shield will fit your requirements to a tee. However dark/shield/blaze would be an excellent choice. Has all the benefits of shield plus a self heal built right in.
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Originally Posted by Phoebe_Ponderas
So I noticed. Hmm...off to make a new thread. Peek at it for me please?
Pretty please? Or just post here because the title thing borked on me >_< OY! lol...[pasted from other thread] After a long time posting in another thread about Willpower it has somewhat come to my attention that Willpower is my favorite set (on a tank) and that maybe I should try focusing on something a little different for my scrapper. Since I seem to have such a love of trying to softcap defenses I wanted to give Shields or SR a shot. So I created two builds for the fun of it and now need some help deciding which I should be messing around with. I do not want to do both, I'm getting so insanely tired of leveling from 1-20 testing new chars. What I want is the ability to solo a +8/+0 spawn. Nothing more is needed beyond that, doesn't have to be super fast, doesn't have to be a cheap build (and won't be knowing me), I just want to be able to do it. If you tell me I can do it without all the sets I'm setting up thats an even bigger bonus. Anyway, I have it narrowed down... Dark/Shields: Yea yea, the "uber" build. I personally dislike shields for the most part but I see a lot of advantages in it if I can make a concept I enjoy. The damage buffs are a huge boon, and gives the dark set a good AoE in shield charge. Dark/SR: Basically the same thing as Dark/Shield but it lacks the damage and AoE...hmm...maybe not. But maybe? Spines/SR: Gets good AoE, some nice dots, stacking slows, and the defenses to sit in the middle of mobs without getting squashed. Also does not need Weave of the defense IO's to soft-cap all positional defenses, huge bonus right there. But again, lacks the damage of Dark/Shields unless you think spines can make up for that? Not so sure honestly. Elec/SR and Elec/Shield were considerations also, mostly for the same reason Spines is in there. Good AoE and a damage type not as commonly resisted. Anyway, as of right now, a Dark/Shield and a Spines/SR are the two I'm leaning most heavily towards playing right now, although I'm always up for suggestions. |
I made up a build for all three of the main sets. Spine/SR, Dark/Shield and Elec/Shield. All of them seem to be pretty decent as far as defenses. What I've seen so far...
Spine/SR: Softcaps all positions with no 3% defense IO's and no Weave, only needs maneuvers with a couple slots to do it. Fairly low damage, at least in comparison to the other two, but still good damage. I mean, it's a scrapper. Also has Elude which puts my defenses around...90%...yea...godmode when needed.
Dark/Shield: Softcapped all positions except range, but only off by less than 2%. Has small AoE capabilities with Shield Charge (although only once or so per battle) and insane survivability with all the accuracy penalties it would give to targets. So more than likely this would be the hardest to kill.
Elec/Shield: Only Softcapped Melee, but was only .9% short on AoE and 2.1% short on Ranged, so still impressive. The scary part is hooooly cow the AoE's. Thunder Strike, Lightning Rod, Shield Charge as guaranteed 360 degree AoE's that do a whole lotta damage when slotted up. On the other hand, two of those AoE's are not going to be used mid-battle for the most part since they have long recharges
It's a pretty hard choice. The Spines build would be nice because it would be pretty cheap to actually put together, although it wouldn't be nearly as devestating as the other two. On the other hand, it has god mode. Dark can more than likely keep me alive against a single target forever (If I wanted to go AV hunting for example) while Elec would basically rip a spawn to pieces, chew up those pieces, and then spit them back out again, but then has to wait for recharging on the two main attacks. Pretty bad against a single hard target though, or so it seems.
So to break it down as simply as possible I guess...
Spine/SR: Cheaper, easier to cap, lowest damage of all three but constant AoE
Dark/Shield: Hardest to kill of all three, great single-target chain
Elec/Shield: Best burst AoE of all three, poor single-target chain
Picking is hard. Leaning towards one of the two shield characters so far...
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Heh - no worries! It's the forums, so I take everything with a grain of hyperbole. |
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Understood - sorry if my post was a bit harsher than I meant for it to be. It just hasn't been the first time I've seen people talking about positional WP builds, and they always mystified me.
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Besides, I'm now pretty convinced that my old way of thinking -- while it is mostly working for me -- isn't really the best way to do things anyhow!Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
Hmm, well I took 8 powers from WP (all but Resurgence), 8 powers from Fire Melee (all but BoF, the 6 attacks are 6 slotted and Taunt has 5), 2 for a travel power, 3 for Kick/Tough/Weave, and 3 for Swift/Health/Stamina. I'm guessing that I'm spending less slots in powers like QR (2 lvl50 generics) and Health/Stamina (1 lvl50 generic in each) compared to you.
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I'll totally agree that Tough and Weave is probably more noticeable than +maxhp and +regen -- just adding Weave to my WP scrapper made it possible for me to jump up a couple levels on the new "difficulty sliders" fighting 8 times the number of mobs. I'm almost afraid to go see what my WP/DB tank can do with the new "mirror build" now!
And speaking of those difficulty sliders:
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Originally Posted by Phoebe_Ponderas
What I want is the ability to solo a +8/+0 spawn.
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(*And yes, I realize that it doesn't actually work out to BE eight times as many villains, but that second slider is a multiplier, after all.) I must have said that a thousand times in other threads, too...say, didn't I mention that the forums are full of hyperbole? 
And good luck with the decision process on the three new AT's, Phoebe -- I've got no experience with any of those three but it looks like you've already looked at the pros and cons of each. My first reaction was "why not try all of them" but I've got way too many alts as it is!
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
You and me both, and none of them actually get anywhere because of Altitis. Trying so hard to make one main solo char and stick to it but it's just so bloody hard!
Well, since this post was started to help with a /WP toon, I thought I should throw in my good thoughts about /WP before you totally bail on the set.
-Willpower is strong, what it lacks in defense it totally makes up for in regen, in spades. Most sets, especially /SR will take you until your late 30's - early 40's to really start to shine. In my opinion, as soon as you get RttC slotted at 17, and then a few levels later get QR slotted, you become an absolute killing machine, only slowed down by the fewer mobs around to kill.
-It's a set that you absolutely have little to click, you log on, click on your few toggles and go kill. You just keep a couple greens in the insp tray to cover those few big hits thats get through too fast, then you really don't even have to worry about your green or blue bars as the regen and recovery keep them full.
-Endurance issues? No way. Practically every other set has endurance issues. QR + Stamina means you never will.
-The only challenge with the set is getting the defense numbers up to a good level. I honestly never messed with any of that on my first /WP to and his tear to 50. Before the days of AE, I basically would go to hazard zones and jump smack dab in the middle of large spawns and lay waste to everyone while hardly noticing any bumps in the road in regards to health, the regen on RttC is that uber. I'm setting out to really push my next /WP toon to the limits though, so getting my defenses up to good levels will only make me better.
I'm not going to speak ill of any other sets, as I have equally loved my /SR and /SD toons and their fights to 50, but nothing has played like my /WP scrapper. I think only a few of the sets really embody scrapperness like /WP, the shrugging off of large numbers of foes and concentrating specifically on doing what we do best, wreaking havoc.
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I'll totally agree with all four points, and expand on a couple: |
Originally Posted by Whisky_Jack
Well, since this post was started to help with a /WP toon, I thought I should throw in my good thoughts about /WP before you totally bail on the set.
-Willpower is strong, what it lacks in defense it totally makes up for in regen, in spades. Most sets, especially /SR will take you until your late 30's - early 40's to really start to shine. In my opinion, as soon as you get RttC slotted at 17, and then a few levels later get QR slotted, you become an absolute killing machine, only slowed down by the fewer mobs around to kill. -It's a set that you absolutely have little to click, you log on, click on your few toggles and go kill. You just keep a couple greens in the insp tray to cover those few big hits thats get through too fast, then you really don't even have to worry about your green or blue bars as the regen and recovery keep them full. -Endurance issues? No way. Practically every other set has endurance issues. QR + Stamina means you never will. -The only challenge with the set is getting the defense numbers up to a good level. I honestly never messed with any of that on my first /WP to and his tear to 50. Before the days of AE, I basically would go to hazard zones and jump smack dab in the middle of large spawns and lay waste to everyone while hardly noticing any bumps in the road in regards to health, the regen on RttC is that uber. I'm setting out to really push my next /WP toon to the limits though, so getting my defenses up to good levels will only make me better. |
I think when you get RttC slotted, you're a machine of destruction right there. You may have to slow down between fights, but you're hard to bring down. Then once QR kicks in the toon really takes off! Stamina on top of it means that you can wade through mobs all day without a break.
WP has pretty much replaced the (old old) style of regen play -- "click and go." Every once in a blue moon in an AE mission, I would get my RttC toggle dropped by stacked stuns -- four or five wouldn't be noticeable, but that sixth one would stun me for a nanosecond that I couldn't even see, but a little while later "huh? My health bar is...that's weird. *click* Okay, then." I was worrying about that with the Issue 16 difficulty changes, but so far I haven't been stunned by a horde of "standard mobs."
I know there's people happily playing WP scrappers with "just" QR, and more power to them. [Hey, that's a pun!] With Stamina, and the right slotting, I'm able to run all four of my WP toggles, AND Focused Accuracy, AND Tough, AND Weave, ALL NON-STOP and run completely amok for essentially forever. The only time I even LOOK at my blue bar these days is if I'm fighting Carnies, or if a Sapper sees me before I can get to him with one of my knockdown attacks. It's kind of like a "maintenance free" car battery -- you just take it for granted until the temperature drops to 15 below zero. "When DID I replace this?" *grrrrrr rrrrrrr rrrrrrr VROOM!!* "Meh - whatever."
Lastly, defense is the icing on the cake. My first and favorite WP scrapper got along JUST FINE doing all kinds of ridiculous things with resistances near "max" and regen slotted as high as I could get it. I didn't even respec the toon for almost two years until the Issue 16 sliders came along and I wondered just HOW "uber" I could be if I did respec and add Weave. I mean, it's a resist based set. The old order of business was "yeah, I got hit. How much bounced? Okay, that's a lot. How does my regen stack up against what got through? Heh - that's a LOT of regen." Looking at it another way, it's kind of like playing a regen (minus Reconstruction and Dull Pain) that has mitigation, like a shield!
Willpower scrappers can take an enormous amount of abuse and keep ticking, like those old watch commercials. Adding defense on top of it to reduce the number of "hits" they take isn't even necessary, I don't think, unless you plan on seeing how far you can push the boundaries.
"But it wasn't anything some purples and oranges and lots of screaming in fear couldn't handle." -- Werner
30 level 50's: 12 scrappers, 7 other random melee types, 11 blaster/blapper/support squishies, two accounts, and a TON of altitis since 4/28/04
You know, I've been playing CoH on and off for 3 years. It's only this year that I became a bit more serious about this game as me and my GF are into this heavily together. There are a lot of guides out there that have helped me on this forum. One thing that I haven't had decent information on is secondaries scrapper powersets. It seems like you guys and gals in this particular thread have this down to a science. The debates are good. I've learned a lot on how I should be building my toons according some of the good info in this thread. The guides out there don't focus enough on secondary sets which is more important than your primaries in my opinion. Sadly enough this thread alone will make me give my toons a second look and maybe a respec. My toons aren't bad and my toons have decent survivability below lvl 40. alot better than peer lvls. But they could be better with a second look.
I have a lvl 38 Kat/WP toon that I am surprisingly have fun with. I have a DM/Shield toon at the same lvl. I liked the DM/shield guy first, but now I find myself loving the kat/WP better now. Better AoE's too. I still find myself having to pop greens though. I need to fill some holes. I think I need to slot more for regen and maybe more positional defense at this time. I don't have the numbers, but I think they were ok. But my typed defense is what I might be lacking.
For us ppl who aren't deep into the slotting of set bonuses, I think some of the guides would be better if they told us what they were building off of the sets for in particular.
Kinda late here but...
My best way to build a WP scrapper?
Well for a none BS or none Katana WP, I would be going for type defense. S/L/F/C/E/N be at 40% and above with 2300+ HP (with all accolades) 700+% regen. Kinetic Combat for S/L defense, Aegis for F/C defense and Eradication for E/N defense. Now add in Weave, Maneuvers and CJ along with the 2 +3 defense. 3 Numinas and 3 LotG would get you HP and Regen. Red zone the health on RttC.
Sample build for a DM-WP...
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Now for a Katana or BS / WP...
Going to use DA or Parry to cap out my melee (2 applications). So I'll be looking to cap my F/C/E/N defense. Gonna be going with pretty much the same sets here. Just gonna ignore the smashing hole I got and let my resists, HP and regen take care of that.
sample build for a Kat/WP...
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Warning:
Those builds aren't for the poor... ;-)
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Here's what I'd do to slot up a Kat/WP toon, and my build is on the cheap side. Kinetic Combats 4-slotted in your attacks would be very nice, but those are pricey and rare, you can get Smashing Haymakers on the cheap and there are plenty of those around. 4-Slotting LoTG's for your defensive toggles are nice, but also pricey, I go with Serendipities. Anyways, Divine Avalance is your friend, I wish he was my fire melee/WP's friend as well, single stacking that get's you up to the softcap on lethal, and I've also got Energy and Negative there as well. You be in the low 30's for smashing, fire and cold, but thats still avoiding quite a few hits. You'll also be sitting at over 600% regen sitting still, you get yourself in a pack of 10 or more and that rises to over 1000% regen. And endurance recovery will be at 208%, keep SoW up as often as you can and you'll be rolling at 238%. Thats all without those pricey health and endurance uniques, you get lucky and get a couple of those and you'll be unstoppable.|
Originally Posted by cp2_4eva
You know, I've been playing CoH on and off for 3 years. It's only this year that I became a bit more serious about this game as me and my GF are into this heavily together. There are a lot of guides out there that have helped me on this forum. One thing that I haven't had decent information on is secondaries scrapper powersets. It seems like you guys and gals in this particular thread have this down to a science. The debates are good. I've learned a lot on how I should be building my toons according some of the good info in this thread. The guides out there don't focus enough on secondary sets which is more important than your primaries in my opinion. Sadly enough this thread alone will make me give my toons a second look and maybe a respec. My toons aren't bad and my toons have decent survivability below lvl 40. alot better than peer lvls. But they could be better with a second look.
I have a lvl 38 Kat/WP toon that I am surprisingly have fun with. I have a DM/Shield toon at the same lvl. I liked the DM/shield guy first, but now I find myself loving the kat/WP better now. Better AoE's too. I still find myself having to pop greens though. I need to fill some holes. I think I need to slot more for regen and maybe more positional defense at this time. I don't have the numbers, but I think they were ok. But my typed defense is what I might be lacking. For us ppl who aren't deep into the slotting of set bonuses, I think some of the guides would be better if they told us what they were building off of the sets for in particular. |
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fitness
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(46), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(46), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(48), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(50)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Heal-I(5), Heal-I(45), Heal-I(50)
Level 2: Flashing Steel -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(3), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(45), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(45), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 4: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(5)
Level 6: Mind Over Body -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(7), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(7)
Level 8: Divine Avalanche -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(9), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(9), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Mako-Acc/Dmg(11), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(13), Zephyr-Travel(13), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(17), Heal-I(17), DisWord-ToHitDeb(40), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg(43), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(43)
Level 18: The Lotus Drops -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(19), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(19), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(40), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21), EndMod-I(21)
Level 22: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(23), GSFC-ToHit(23), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(25), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(25), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(39)
Level 24: Kick -- KBDist-I(A)
Level 26: Soaring Dragon -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(27), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(27), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(37), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(29), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(34)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(33), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb(34), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 35: Weave -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(36), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(36), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 38: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(39)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def(42), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 47: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(48)
Level 49: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Quote:
Well, this inspired me to play around in mids with a spines/wp and I'm pretty happy with the results: Soft-capped def to all types but psi (26%), 42.5% global recharge.|
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
A few weeks ago I was digging into /WP pretty heavy. It is possible to soft cap positional defenses with most sets while maintaining 40+ recharge... Kinetic combats are very helpful... The hardest thing to boost is energy/negative... 3 thunderstrikes (Ranged damge)... 3 eradications (PBAoE damage) help there. Also, you can grab a little for a few slots with Blessing of the Zephyr in your travel power.
|
Quote:
| (note: i'm ignoreing psi as one of those types... but the build I have in front of me while writing this has 27.3 defense to psi, and 45.3 resistance to psi.. so it's still pretty solid vs psi enemies... just not as solid as vs everything else). |
Because of that, I needed more places in which to slot kinetic combat, so pool power attacks ate up quite a bit of space in my build, making it extremely tight overall. I've done a lot of tinkering with the slots, but there's only one or two to spare-this build sacrifices a lot (MoB+IW have base slots only, tough is unslotted for res, no stamina) for the defense. That said, it doesn't bother me all that much-a scrapper approaching SR levels of defense and /reg levels of regen, well, wouldn't need res that much in the first place.
Anyway, I'm having a tough time matching your psi res (after all MoB is unslotted), either due due my primary choice or lack of building proficiency. What primary did you match WP with?
Regardless, this is one build that will definitely put the 10 extra Going Rogue slots to very good use.
I threw this together for a different thread, but it applies here as well.
Here are some of my latest thoughts on softcapping WP.
1. Focus on Kinetic Combat, Cleaving Blow, Eradication, Aegis, blessing of zephyer and Rectified Reticle sets. They give the most defense per slot.
2. Drop the fitness pool (I may be lynched for this). You can more than half replace stamina with physical perfection (The performance shifter proc doesn't care....) and the extra pool power slots are worth a lot. You can either grab hover (if you are poor) or hasten (if you are rich).
Here is a build that uses both these concepts to reach 45% to S/L/F/C/E/N with 21 slots left to place. This is done without using the pvp defense IO. This is not a real build, just a demonstration.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Gambler's Cut -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(43), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(45), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 2: Flashing Steel -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 4: Mind Over Body -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(40), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 6: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(27), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(29), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 8: Hover -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(9), DefBuff-I(9), Zephyr-Travel(11), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(11)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(13), Zephyr-ResKB(13), DefBuff-I(15), Zephyr-Travel(15), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(17)
Level 12: Maneuvers -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(19), DefBuff-I(23)
Level 14: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(40), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 16: Tactics -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(19)
Level 18: Build Up -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(27)
Level 20: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(21), DefBuff-I(33)
Level 22: Vengeance -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(23)
Level 24: Divine Avalanche -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 26: The Lotus Drops -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(34), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 28: Soaring Dragon -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Heightened Senses -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(37), DefBuff-I(37)
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(36), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Fast Healing -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 38: Indomitable Will -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 47: Rise to the Challenge -- Heal-I(A)
Level 49: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:
My biggest problem is that my inner min/max thinks why play WP when shield defense is available | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1244;607;1214;HEX;| |78DAA553DB6E1251143DC30C1929B752045ACA4591A6859A09461FBC3C986835311| |6432FA15EAA64A4C74232013260B46F7E80B7A8890FEAABFF60FC13F50FBCFC02EE| |7DD68184F8E804D69AB3F7DAEBECB30FD49F6E448478765918B1AB9E3B1CB676DAB| |E3B1848DFBEE58E1EFBAE276C21446A126DD5A527A573D31DB93D373B8D6EC847B2| |3794CE5ED7F306FD27D24FDCE875A42F7B2367F2126DF4FB9E73BD7BD819757B876| |1AC3C5E46D4FBA6740794884F1607D21F76BA83C4B541B7ED5CE91F1CB5EAEE7024| |FDA345EAA742DF17DC987AC6A668109544600BB4ADC8DA51D4649DA175197AC98BE| |A39A233E2740D7456D14B5BCBC43860FC09B06EF117E8B7A23D1298300A98705885| |C32A1C0C120475474174944547397494434721D2D930B2EC82E0D2633334F72DA0E| |8BBA234C943900743104434FD508218563154CDA32A415561DD6D188205501A6492| |20AA05D199E354709C2409E2388E11FF40A649B1F051D12BCA247426814C16198B3| |2493DEC24F6393E4327F48A7429ED9082431A0EAF29935117313633186201432C60| |88050CF10DE996F4752DE1BA4EFE04E1D6DE926059DFC6328C2A30AAC2A80AA37DD| |2E575CBF99926CB33F48E7445BD61111B9EC286656C789B0425188952538DF00E85| |5674680536BBA6106BFAE46B38790527FF1C15625D8BD7DFAB4BBC4BF58EA186219| |CB2AABF47A19A56D5A0CA59D37F027DE8119BFF441AD6F4D72D0C15295AD3FFC57F| |3D5F2293BD42DB7384BB0C0D8626C33EC37D86070C2EC3438636C3F8EBB43A7E9E1| |BBAC07091E112C37316D9618230438421CA10638833CC332419D20C59864F0CE3BF| |6E8CE6C8| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
The easy answer to why play a /WP toon when /SD is available is simple, regeneration. What makes AV's hard to solo? Their ability to regen back HP's as fast as you can deal it. A fully saturated RttC can put you above 1000% regen on most well slotted /WP toons. If you can manage to add any level of defense to that, it's godlike for scrappers. IMO the above build manages to reach the softcap, but sacrifices heavily it regen/recovery strengths. The attacks are all underslotted and waiting till 44 for any endurance help is a pretty big leap. Waiting till 47 for RTTC, and then underslotting it, thats a crime.
I see what you were shooting for though, and you managed that well, kudos on showing the best way to hit that softcap. I think a good mix of +HP and regen, combined with trying to get your typed defenses in the mid 30's is a good target to shoot for when IO'ing out a build. I am seriously considering trying out your notion of dropping the fitness pool and grabbing PP instead. Health and Endurance was never a problem in my run to 50 on a FM/WP scrapper, so maybe I could tone it back a notch and get an extra slot or two to put somewhere else.
The build had 21 slots left over. It wasn't a real build. RTTC was chosen so late because it didn't contribute to defense, but it obviously needed to be in the build. It should be taken as soon as it is available in a serious build.
I do agree that skipping stamina is something I would respec into rather than leveling up from scratch.
If/When I do this, I will most likely use the 5th set of kinetic combat (at the cost of a slot or two) to free up two powers. Most likely for conserve power and something else. I might also slot cleaving blow into flashing steel and lotus drop to let me have complete freedom with slotting golden dragon fly.
Before building this, I'd recommend trying a character out that runs hover + combat jumping. It is a little different to be floating around with a sword. Of course, if you are rich and can afford the pvp def io, then I'd recommend hasten and going for a DPS attack chain.
My question for WP slotting is, do you slot high pain tolerance, health, and fast healing with sets like miracle, numina's, and regenerative tissue for the uniques and bonuses, or do you just slot them for straight up health IOs?
My considered slotting choices are
health
- 1 miracle unique/2 health IO
- 3 miracle (including the unique)
- 3 health IO
fast healing
-1 numina's unique/2 health IO
- 3 numina's (including the unique)
- 3 health IO
High Pain Tolerance
- 3 aegis/regnerative tissue unique/2 health IO
- 3 aegis/3 regenerative tissue
- 3 aegis/3 health IO
Of course any of the healing sets could be moved around or duplicated if the uniques are deemed to be unecessary. But which of these options is going to make me the most survivable?
Quote:
DM/Shield is a well known top end combo, but can be pretty expensive. It's great because shields with good io slotting caps your defense, gives you high health and good resists, while dm gives you a great heal that combos as an attack. If you're looking for the uber-build, this is the way to go. Great survivability, awesome damage bonuses and increased aoe with shield charge, but again, it's late blooming and expensive.|
Originally Posted by Phoebe_Ponderas
So I noticed. Hmm...off to make a new thread. Peek at it for me please?
Pretty please? Or just post here because the title thing borked on me >_< OY! lol...[pasted from other thread] After a long time posting in another thread about Willpower it has somewhat come to my attention that Willpower is my favorite set (on a tank) and that maybe I should try focusing on something a little different for my scrapper. Since I seem to have such a love of trying to softcap defenses I wanted to give Shields or SR a shot. So I created two builds for the fun of it and now need some help deciding which I should be messing around with. I do not want to do both, I'm getting so insanely tired of leveling from 1-20 testing new chars. What I want is the ability to solo a +8/+0 spawn. Nothing more is needed beyond that, doesn't have to be super fast, doesn't have to be a cheap build (and won't be knowing me), I just want to be able to do it. If you tell me I can do it without all the sets I'm setting up thats an even bigger bonus. Anyway, I have it narrowed down... Dark/Shields: Yea yea, the "uber" build. I personally dislike shields for the most part but I see a lot of advantages in it if I can make a concept I enjoy. The damage buffs are a huge boon, and gives the dark set a good AoE in shield charge. Dark/SR: Basically the same thing as Dark/Shield but it lacks the damage and AoE...hmm...maybe not. But maybe? Spines/SR: Gets good AoE, some nice dots, stacking slows, and the defenses to sit in the middle of mobs without getting squashed. Also does not need Weave of the defense IO's to soft-cap all positional defenses, huge bonus right there. But again, lacks the damage of Dark/Shields unless you think spines can make up for that? Not so sure honestly. Elec/SR and Elec/Shield were considerations also, mostly for the same reason Spines is in there. Good AoE and a damage type not as commonly resisted. Anyway, as of right now, a Dark/Shield and a Spines/SR are the two I'm leaning most heavily towards playing right now, although I'm always up for suggestions. |
If you want to go elec or spines, I'd suggest sticking with WP, because WP has great layered mitigation, and it's high regen acts as a heal, you can get close or totally softcap defense to a lot of dmg types, and the hardest one to softcap can be covered by 50% resists in most cases, and you get extra health, while providing a ton of endurance for aoe-centric elec or spines. For poor dmg mitigation primaries, wp is great. Plus no clicking to interupt your attacks.
DM and SR are still good with other primaries, but you might find yourself wanting a heal, which can be done with aid self, but it can be tough to find room for it in a good shield build. But if you want to be really tough to kill on the cheap, I'd suggest SR, which can be soft capped really easily, and put you into god mode for pennies compared to top end builds for wp or shields. But it's a late bloomer, so if you want to feel most powerful leveling up, again, I'd go with WP. But if you're looking for the best end game build and you've got bottomless pockets, go dm/sd.
That, and I think using the word "crutch" in a statbased game is silly. IW is a crutch, mez protection powers are for sissies ! Yeah...