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Originally Posted by Borris_Black
The builds are very impressive. I notice you left the Fire epic behind doesn't the lack of AE or should I say the wait on recharge hurt the toon. Or is the additional regen and end too important???
How does the toon go in larger spawns without the additional area attacks ?? |
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Originally Posted by doomrider
With the amount of global recharge these builds are sporting, while hasten is up(which is almost all the time) shield charge is up pretty well every spawn, so say every 25-30 seconds. After soul drain and shield charge, there isn't much left except for a boss or 2 if they haven't already been defeated. I'd say they do pretty well as far aoe dmg is concerned.
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"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Precisely. Endurance sustainability is key for no insp/no temps AV soloing, and without CP and PP it's just not possible to achieve on most high-end, high-recharge, softcapped /Shield builds. It might be possible using DC on DM/ builds, but I prefer to have SM for the added AoE, plus depending on using DC for endurance sustainability would reduce DPS. |
Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
Pretty much this. Shield Charge is up for every spawn, while I would love to have Fireball I didn't really build this toon to take down groups fast it was more to take down AV fast. So it was easy for me not to take fireball and take Conserve Power and Physical Perfection. Those two powers will help me more in an AV fight.
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I might make a much less expensive second build with Fireball, but I've found that with saturated SD + AAO + SC everything dies instantly except Bosses, which are mopped up with a few attacks. Granted, once SC is nerfed this will change quite a lot and Fireball will become much more important for AoE damage than it currently is.
Thanks to everyone for the great advice, the scrapper boards are very helpful. One final question I noticed in your final build Santorican that grant cover was your final pic and its slotted with a end redux. I gather its not worth looking at a shield defense + 3 res at the cost of .2 end ?
EDIT : Didn't read that last post, is shield charge up for the dreaded nerf bat or speculation ?
"if you ever get offered a burger from a clown and its not ronald mcdonald don�t eat it, I learnt that the hard way"
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It will be nerfed, but Castle has not stated when. It will be awhile due to more preassing issues such as GR. Currently, teh damage is way higher than it should be, and the full damage is applied to the whole 20' radius, which is not what was intended. Here's the quote from Castle about it:|
Originally Posted by Borris_Black
EDIT : Didn't read that last post, is shield charge up for the dreaded nerf bat or speculation ?
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Originally Posted by Castle
Good catch. I was looking at the original power, as I designed it, rather than the reworked version that was done later. For scrappers, it is scale 3.6 on the Minion_Pet table, which is a far cry from the scale 1.4 on the Minion_Pet table I originally designed for it. I vaguely remember someone (Synapse? Sunstorm? I'd have to dig into check in notes to see) asking me if they could update it to include AT Mods in the damage scales and saying yes.
Hmm...yeah, ok. I can very easily see what happened here. Shield Charge when released was set for a scale 1.7 damage to all targets within 20' of impact, with 0.7 scale bonus within 3' of impact. When the change to allow AT scaling was made, the bonus damage was rolled into the overall damage, for a scale of 2.4 to all targets in a 20' radius. At the same time, instead of have Brutes getting a mod of 0.75 applied, they were treated as the base. So, instead of: Brutes 3' scale 1.8, 20' scale 1.275 Tankers 3' scale 2.04, 20' 1.445 Scrappers 3' scale 2.7, 20' scale 1.9125 We get: Brute 20' scale 2.4 Tanker 20' scale 2.712 Scrapper 20' scale 3.6 That REALLY sucks. |
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In my opinion I don't think the Shield Wall: +3res is not worth the 1.5 billion its going for. 3% resistance isn't going to make much of a difference.
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Originally Posted by Borris_Black
Thanks to everyone for the great advice, the scrapper boards are very helpful. One final question I noticed in your final build Santorican that grant cover was your final pic and its slotted with a end redux. I gather its not worth looking at a shield defense + 3 res at the cost of .2 end ?
EDIT : Didn't read that last post, is shield charge up for the dreaded nerf bat or speculation ? |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I disagree, IF you have the extra Billion or so slot it but it's a non issue really. |
Originally Posted by Santorican
In my opinion I don't think the Shield Wall: +3res is not worth the 1.5 billion its going for. 3% resistance isn't going to make much of a difference.
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On a secondary note, the lvl 30 build posted a few pages up, would a panacea proc be better then regen tissue in Health?
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
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I also see it as I can use that extra slot else where that will be more beneficial to my survival or damage output.
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Originally Posted by pyrite
I disagree, IF you have the extra Billion or so slot it but it's a non issue really.
On a secondary note, the lvl 30 build posted a few pages up, would a panacea proc be better then regen tissue in Health? |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I think you'll be hard-pressed to get a survivability boost equivalent to 3% resistance to ALL damage types out of one slot in any other way, at least if you already have a solid build that isn't completely neglecting key slotting of key powers. But yes, that's a whole lot to pay for a fairly small overall improvement.
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Originally Posted by Santorican
I also see it as I can use that extra slot else where that will be more beneficial to my survival or damage output.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
I <3 this thread.
Easy to find bump as few friends have recently made a DM/SD Scrapper.
I got my DM/Shield to 50 and IO'd out. I am not terribly happy. In fact, I'm downright frustrated.
I have difficulty soloing a pylon and end up needing to pop a few greens to live through a run. In-game Defense shows at 45.49% Melee and Ranged, 45.80% AoE. DDR in-game shows 91.18%.
Mids shows the Defense correctly, but shows me having more DDR - 93.9%. The issue appears to be Battle Agility, as Mids shows it with a DDR of 24.7% and in-game shows it contributes 21.98%. I wonder why there is a discrepancy.
As far as the build goes, I haven't run it up against any Avs yet, but I don't think I'll be able to survive a no temps/no insp run. Any suggestions? Should I re-work the build to pad Defense more?
edit: Also, I have noticed that even though I have AD on auto-fire it routinely does not auto-fire as soon as it has recharged, thus expanding the time I have only 63.5% DDR. Anyone else having this issue?
Here is the actual build, which can Exemp to level 27 and remain soft-capped. I did one successful pylon run out of 7 attempts, but only by popping 4 greens. I got a time of 4:29, which works out to 270 DPS. This is without turning Focused Accuracy on.
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1425;727;1454;HEX;| |78DA9D93DB52134110867B930D21C9E604840408C420981304E2A1E46459A568950| |A1612E44AC52519219A0AA96CA8823B1FC02B8F57DE29EA2358BE89BE80EFE021F6| |618285976E25FF373DD33DD3DDB3BB7AB06C013CBD0C46E86ADD769CAD72A565379| |BAAE5BD6DB7F75B76DD7B6BFFF17EDBD9F702C05077716B55D5952A2EDBAD27324C| |1DAF2CAB47AAE1A86279B7A6EAD5AE19BDD1D8552DD56817BB03FFDADE5EBD586E2| |A55B57878BDD66E28C7096A6367B75D6BECC8D28AB29B6844AF356B95E295BDEAE1| |D6AAEDB455EB308149E5F0DFA2ECF8E97820E30228812B2BC831CCBCA0C0E8F98EE| |8037F10030C8E3221868304F45C44CB7443AF663E8ED3A3903FEBA6B800061812E0| |3224A0EBE8D7B4D0C52D2E1EF71D0EF6AF33ACB2608311BA2BD8648C63FE1EBDB1A| |7007456E404A8FD5E5DA077498EEAFB8703732739A819C4947C7A73DF825ED34C68| |F6E0E601F18140968FF4E25450A68CE04D1CC4612A8D6D98000357C2920C8487111| |970E35454B7323ACB3525CE3186CF0B4A8CE90B8C5E74EFD75DEA7F83973100C9E7| |2E5A49BE408CC0D84BB6A65E31A65F334258488CFBDF81589A930CE3545C2719971| |B99FA456F2A1C7849D9D933F483E3C77E0A7E314EFD167404E026981835A2131BF1| |1B944A9AFA9284B4C599A7835247883113E6B5418C1AD51D1E952C325FB98EFC37D| |EFD101D52FAFA520F81A64E57045581624C6C0BE4D2A358DCB84499E3F3FCE64E2C| |30CE2C0A960497180E1E32A90F99948A335271462ACE49C539A93827159751B3FA3| |2B372EE119E5BD02F43416E6703BD8A7AEFE23B8E9F79CF2B33476C953EB8A813A5| |8F627D622B821BCDEA8D66A52F49F3F84BC51F3EB0621E7F85F89E625C08D64C3D8| |35386E494FAEBD5F145F06B91E5FF7D3E5BDDED7CEB7ED40D923514639346F748EE| |93F98046368DB6492A6476BE58DD22C27394D73CC902C922490CF38367E4E90DA00| |4482C92204988244C1221E9271926794BD2F903506FE648| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Ah yes that reminds me why I had to run two membranes and one enzyme in AD. It was because Mid's was showing that discrepancy lol.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
Honestly Gaiden its a luck of the draw, I had redo the pylon challenge a few times due to dying. My defense wasn't getting debuffed and I was using +1 and 2 for SD fuel so it's just that wonderful random chance that you'll live forever or you'll get every attack hitting you at once. That is why defense is suck a fickle being 
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The only suggestion I could give is to take out the proc from Smite and possible the To hit from PF and slot them into health to raise your regen but I'm not so sure a 50% increase in passive regeneration is going to give you a huge boost in survivability.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
One thing I learn when using +1 and 2 to fuel SD is you don't when any Chief Mentalist so I would kill them before I would start on the pylon, I also killed Chief Mesmerist too.
Chief Mentalist have Dominate which would hit me a lot. Once I took out the Chief Mentalist it was a lot better. I still die some but not as much as I did.
"All right, they're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time"- Chesty Puller US Marine Corps
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Myself and at least one other I know of have had this problem. Every so often it's almost as if it gets stuck on recharge and won't fire off. Saying that it is still recharging although it is up. Thought it might of been lag or something like that, but I was having no other problems. Since it has happened a few problems and to others I don't think it was on my end of things.
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Originally Posted by Gaidin
Also, I have noticed that even though I have AD on auto-fire it routinely does not auto-fire as soon as it has recharged, thus expanding the time I have only 63.5% DDR. Anyone else having this issue?
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That is very good advice and I forgot to mention this same thing!
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
One thing I learn when using +1 and 2 to fuel SD is you don't when any Chief Mentalist so I would kill them before I would start on the pylon, I also killed Chief Mesmerist too.
Chief Mentalist have Dominate which would hit me a lot. Once I took out the Chief Mentalist it was a lot better. I still die some but not as much as I did. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
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I don't see that making a noticeable difference. 2.1 HP/sec isn't much for losing the damage proc and 95% Acc vs. +4 without SD. I am tempted to find a slot to add a fourth Membrane to AD which would get me 98.02% DDR in-game... |
Originally Posted by Santorican
The only suggestion I could give is to take out the proc from Smite and possible the To hit from PF and slot them into health to raise your regen but I'm not so sure a 50% increase in passive regeneration is going to give you a huge boost in survivability.
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Originally Posted by BrokenPrey
One thing I learn when using +1 and 2 to fuel SD is you don't when any Chief Mentalist so I would kill them before I would start on the pylon, I also killed Chief Mesmerist too.
Chief Mentalist have Dominate which would hit me a lot. Once I took out the Chief Mentalist it was a lot better. I still die some but not as much as I did. |
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Originally Posted by Andferne
Myself and at least one other I know of have had this problem. Every so often it's almost as if it gets stuck on recharge and won't fire off. Saying that it is still recharging although it is up. Thought it might of been lag or something like that, but I was having no other problems. Since it has happened a few problems and to others I don't think it was on my end of things.
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edit: just got through a pylon run without insp and without dying! woo! About frigging time. 4:27 run this time. Slightly better timing on my part for clicking SD, I think.
I find that DDR rarely matters except versus romans and rads, wich you shouldn't find in the RWZ.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
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I've seen this happen before myself. I think that what causes it is targetting a "friendly" player or an NPC such as a vendor or contact, which seems to stop powers set to auto from firing. It's been this way for a while now, so I'm not sure if this is a bug, or was introduced deliberately for some reason, perhaps to stop an exploit.
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Originally Posted by Gaidin
Earlier today I watched as AD's icon blinked and disappeared. AD was recharged and the green circle of auto-fire was around it... yet it didn't activate. So I was without Mez protection. I waited for over a minute and nothing. I think it must be a bug. A very bad bug.
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I don't know what it is, but I hate it. Yes, it seems like the game decides you're in "friendly territory" so it doesn't autofire, like it doesn't want to "waste" the power. Maybe you're right about targeting an NPC. It's something like that. Been around a while. Hate it. I can't imagine what exploit could be being "fixed" by this.
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Originally Posted by Streetcleaner
I've seen this happen before myself. I think that what causes it is targetting a "friendly" player or an NPC such as a vendor or contact, which seems to stop powers set to auto from firing. It's been this way for a while now, so I'm not sure if this is a bug, or was introduced deliberately for some reason, perhaps to stop an exploit.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
When you're soloing a pylon you shouldn't have AD on auto anyways. DDR doesn't help much against pylons or rikti, so all AD is used for is KB protection and mes resist. You only need it single-stacked if you're doing it properly.
I found the best fodder (which gave me my awesome pylon solo time) to be Communication Officers. Using them, you can freely spam Soul Drain and they will summon portals every so often to refill those that die off.
Just my 2 cents on the matter. Also, as everyone already said, you don't need huge DDR unless you're going up against romans or rads, which is rare. I run about 85-92% double stacked with about a 15 second downtime and it's more than enough for tanking romans.
@Mojo-
Proud Member of Fusion Force.
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Do you use level 54 Comm Officers? Also, I didn't realize that they'd live through multiple SD since they're minions. My SD is slotted with a set of level 30 Oblits, so I might kill them. I looked at your build previously, but I can't recall if it's slotted with GSFC or Oblits to know if this might be true.|
Originally Posted by _Mojo_
When you're soloing a pylon you shouldn't have AD on auto anyways. DDR doesn't help much against pylons or rikti, so all AD is used for is KB protection and mes resist. You only need it single-stacked if you're doing it properly.
I found the best fodder (which gave me my awesome pylon solo time) to be Communication Officers. Using them, you can freely spam Soul Drain and they will summon portals every so often to refill those that die off. Just my 2 cents on the matter. Also, as everyone already said, you don't need huge DDR unless you're going up against romans or rads, which is rare. I run about 85-92% double stacked with about a 15 second downtime and it's more than enough for tanking romans. |
Also, as far as AD/DDR goes, I wasn't overly worried about it against the pylon, but it not auto-firing when it's ready really sucks.
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I like using L51 Chief Soldiers, with my current slotting they don't die and usually aren't even at half health by the time the pylon is down.
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Originally Posted by Gaidin
Do you use level 54 Comm Officers? Also, I didn't realize that they'd live through multiple SD since they're minions. My SD is slotted with a set of level 30 Oblits, so I might kill them. I looked at your build previously, but I can't recall if it's slotted with GSFC or Oblits to know if this might be true.
Also, as far as AD/DDR goes, I wasn't overly worried about it against the pylon, but it not auto-firing when it's ready really sucks. |
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
AD and the SR click mez resist definatly WILL NOT fire if you have an WW employee or trainer targeted, you should always clear your target reticle when entering a dangerous area.
The more people I meet, the more I'm beginning to root for the zombies.
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No it isn't having something targeted it is a bug or lag problem that doesn't allow the click mez to fire off on its own. I have that problem as well
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Originally Posted by pyrite
AD and the SR click mez resist defiantly WILL NOT fire if you have an WW employee or trainer targeted, you should always clear your target reticle when entering a dangerous area.
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Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread
How does the toon go in larger spawns without the additional area attacks ??
For one Mid's doesn't have Panacea's bonuses right. It only gives 3.13% Melee Defense in PvP zones so you're really not at the melee soft cap.
I'd slot Siphon Life as an attack rather sololy as a heal.
I don't slot the recharge proc into Shield Charge because I don't have room for it, on average it only grants you 5% recharge over time so to me it isn't worth it.
Virtue: @Santorican
Dark/Shield Build Thread