"I won't force myself on you..." Really now?

I've been with this game for a couple of years now. And it's really only fairly recently that I've taken an active role in doing some roleplaying. I still haven't found any consistant circle to roleplay with, but I'm slowly building a relationship here and a relationship there.

Anyhoo, I've gotten into the nasty habit of constantly reading people's bios. And on a few of them, quite disturbingly, there are disclaimors about:

1. Promising not to use their psionic abilities to have their way with my character.

Or...

2. Will kill my character if I try to use my psionic abilities to seduce that character against their will.


Serious question here... Is this really problematic enough to warrant these kinds of disclaimors? Or are these people just being cute? While a couple of my characters have gotten hit-on (and quite poorly at that...) I've never come across an issue even remotely approaching mental sexual assaults.

So I have to ask... Really now?

Maybe I don't read enough bios but I have never seen or heard of this before.

As you read bios more and more, you will find nothing surprises you.

There are a small minority of role players, who insist on role playing from positions of almost absolute power. Tell tale signs of this role player are:

1. They constantly insist they can decrypt, understand and learn everything about your character in mere seconds. No computer system, mental barriers or will power can stop their technical/psychic skills from deducing everything about you.

2. You can learn nothing about them. Their defense mechanisms are impenetrable.

3. Your character is constantly reminded of their inferiority, your schemes and ideas are always "laughable", "silly" and "chidlish". They go out of their way to tell other players who are roleplaying how bad their ideas are both IC and OOC.

4. More often their ideas are not revealed to you at all, either they don't really have any, or they contend (with a straight face) that their ideas are too complicated for you to understand.

5. Both OOC and IC they are constantly telling everyone how your ideas are boring, contrived and "done a million times", their ideas are always "misunderstood". They tend to gripe/moan privately, from time to time, that nobody seems to "get" their character.

6. Nobody can truly understand the massive depth to their character. This is because it is so deep, and so utterly impenetrable, making the irony of their attitude that "nobody gets their character" even more ironic and perpetual.

7. Secrets, secrets, secrets, so vast, so cryptic, that anything they do actually reveal to you is just a small sliver of what is going on, and probably just offered to deceive you and prove how stupid/inept/powerless your character is compared to there's.

8. The cardinal rule is: I know everything about you, everything...even before you've even come up with it on your own. Your character is trite, trivial and cliche. Their character is genius creation, that you, have absolutely no capability to fully understand.

These roleplayers seldom share themselves truly in terms of collaboration, sharing ideas or working together with mutual respect. They refuse to ever be put in vulnerable positions. They resent it when other characters around them are getting more attention than they are. They tend to gripe, sometimes passively, sometimes aggressively, when other story lines that they are not directly involved in, become the center of attention. They tend to use cheap IC devices to passingly mock other people's stories, when they are actively being played.

This isn't the "text book" Mary Sue, but it is a flavor of them. They consider just about any creative effort that they don't directly control "god modding" and they view just about any new roleplayer with suspicion and usually try to deflate their characters both IC and OOC to gain an upper hand on them. Its the same "neg" tactic, jerk guys sometimes use in singles bars.

These small group of roleplayers create a defensive posture amongst other roleplayers around them. Either the Mary Sue themselves sets up all kinds of preconditions in their bio, to enforce how they must always have the upper hand, and can never be vulnerable; or the role player is so weary of being Mary Sue'd, they've put in their bio to help defend themselves against it.

Really, both reactions are weak. The best thing you can do with a Mary Sue is indulge them, (for as long as they can be tolerated), then gracefully bow out when the time seems right.

As for psychic penetration, that reveals everything about your character, I also indulge them. Feeding them a combination of truth and lies, then fake passing out and tell them my character we "teleported elsewhere" by some unknown force. If they insist they know what that outside force is, due to their incredible, unquestionable power, I usually answer "the moon", then log out for a few minutes.

Now I am not a great role player, I don't contend to be. But I do know, that the best role players often RP from positions of weakness. That the most useful, clever and most interesting role player is willing to support stories rather than create them - willing to be victimized, or set back in their character's goals and are willing to "go with the flow" without constantly stomping their feet and insist everyone play with only their dollies.

These are the roleplayers I inevitably gravitate to and treasure most, and the kind of role player I pretend to be. Some may argue my preference isn't correct, that is fine, but I tell you it's the ones who are open, honest, collaborative and willing to treat themselves and others around them as creative equals, that in my experience, produce the most fun with our little hobby.

Those caveats in bios you see, represent either someone who has had too many bad experiences with this kind of roleplayer, or worse, are one of those kinds of roleplayers and are just staging themselves to be start up yet another dominant, insult-laden, ego trip, which they somehow believe is what role playing is all about.

See that? That post just above there?

Awesome.

Its like the "RP Guide for Idiots" stickie at the top of the forum renamed "How to avoid jerks."

I approve of this post.

Also keep in mind a lot of the people you run into are kids. Of course they want their toon to be the end all be all. It doesn't make them a bad person, just means they are a normal kid.

Which, you know, kinda sucks when you have a couple characters who actually are just naturally resistant to Psi shenanigans because of strict discipline or sheer stubborness but everyone yells at you about trying to escape consequences, nevermind having characters whose only defense to Psi is a psychic going 'Seriously, I didn't need to know that, could you not be completely transparent with *everything* you are thinking about?' >.<

Very intriguing information. Thank you, guys. I had no idea that some of these guys really go that far . . . in a game that we all pay monthly to play… Yeesh. If they define “fun” by berating, insulting, and forcing their omnipotence upon others, I’d hate to be around them personally.

And now that you’ve spelt it that way, I do recall one incident last year in the Ski Chalet. My female main was sitting in the lodge, minding her own business, when this zombie-looking fellow appeared. He sent me a tell, saying something to the effect of: “You shiver as you gather a whiff of pheromones as he passes by” – and then he slowly shuffles past me.

Annoyed that he didn’t ask of my participation, I emoted a sneeze and mumbled something about people needing to bathe properly. He stared at me for about ten seconds and scampered elsewhere.

I believe that’s the extent of my experience with these individuals, though. Never been mind-probed, harassed, or otherwise talked-down to by a “god-like” presence. Yet. Now that I’m prepared with this knowledge, that next encounter should be fairly entertaining.

As for the “mental shield” disclaimers… I do see far more of that than what I originally posted. Every other character with a bio seems exceptionally well-shielded from mental attacks. With my main character, he has a “normal” costume and a powered-up version of it. I’ve always thought that if I was “special” enough to be singled out for a mental assault, I’d make him cooperative to the point where he’s allowed to power up, and all psychic control ceases. I thought I’d at least give the mental barrier a little flavor, yet allow for some vulnerability, rather than just stating flat-out, “My toon will pwn3 yer mindz if you try with yer probez….”

How bizarre.

I've only got two characters I'm actively interested in RPing with. One of them is a Mind/Psi, and it's never occurred to me to 'probe' someone, nor have I had anyone attempt to 'probe' my character. Then again, I don't hang out in Pocket D.

The other character does have something similar to a disclaimer, but it's not intended as some sort of RP god mode. The origin of her powers is a chunk of the Tower of Babel, and to outsiders she appears to both think and speak in dozens of languages at once. She's actually thinking and speaking in the original language of man prior to the fall of the tower, which ironically makes her nearly impossible for most characters to understand. It's not that you can't read her mind, it's that you probably don't have the Rosetta stone you need to understand all of it.

That character -has- had numerous attempts to read her mind, which typically require me to make a trip to babelfish. The inevitable sentence in 8 languages tends to be met without any return comment. I think she's flypaper for mindreaders because I call out that particular weirdness in her bio, and players are curious as to what'll happen if they try.

Maybe this is a case of the chicken and the egg? One guy put ((send me a tell if you try to read my mind)) in his bio and it escalated from there, or perhaps there was one particularly munchkinish mind reader and everyone else started adding disclaimers to get them to sod off?

I have noticed a lot of this in bios, but I always assumed it was a MRP/ERP thing and just ignored it because that's the opposite of the type of RP I'm interested in. I casually godmode out of victimization because I'm only interested in playing comic relief, but I wouldn't go so far as to put some sort of 'I win before you even start' message in my bio.

So it’s your bio that directly entices the psionic vultures? I frequent Pocket D pretty regularly, and never once has anyone tried to probe my mind – or even asked to.

Then again, my bio is basically an origin story in one thousand characters. I’ve been told it’s very well-written, but I can’t help but think it sheds little light about the insights of the character. At one point, I found myself torn to re-do it in a more traditional stats-based “public file” style bio. But personally, I find those a less interesting when compared to an actual story.

The fun of RPing to me is the fact that it takes more than 1 person to make it worth while, otherwise its jsut a writing excercise.

Yes there are idiots who insist they know everything about you from the start. It makes it worse when you try to play a character with a secret ID and show up out of costume in the secret ID which is only mentioned in your bio, but that is a rant for another time.

OF course I do have one character that will know what a person's name is, but that is when on air and that is DJ Shecky. I have it as he has a small earplug that announces the name from someone out of site in the D who sees who everyone is for security purposes. The reason he knows the names is so that he can be friendly and welcomng to them, plus so I can do Roll Calls while on air. Outside of a name, he knows nothing about people, and when he is not DJing he won't know the name of someone new.

I hate to sound like some kind of elitist snob, but this is the reason I play alone most of the time...

I love roleplaying. I think of it as writing a story with other people, and I'll continue to do it when possible in Paragon City, but I feel I need to say something in addition to the amazing post ChaosRed has given us.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE?????

Why am I bombarded with private messages asking for ERP?
Some don't even take the time to have their character hit on your's. I mean, why bother right? Let's just skip to why they're there! When did it become acceptable to ask every player in the zone if they'll pretend to give you some? What disturbs me most is how often I'm playing an underage character when this happens. And by underage, I mean a young child, not an almost legal hottie. I suspect, or rather hope, that they never saw my character at all. That they simply saw a female name and threw out a hopeful pm... Part of me still tries to be optimistic about the human race.

Why are trolls getting away with their endless badgering by claiming they're in character?
Nevermind that they are mocking things they should not know in character (such as screen names, bios, and AT) along with their verbal assault on whatever conversation might be within earshot...
They are in character, and you can't report them, so nah na na na nah nah! Cause they're just pretending to be a complete and total *****. Now that my ignore list isn't going to be full of e-mail spammers (thank you i16!) I can just tune these guys out and peacefully go about my business.

Why do I get accused of being a cyber bimbo every time i step away from the crowd so i can read a friend's posts without everyone else's sending my chat window ahead of what I'm reading?
I work odd hours. I hate fishing through other people's posts trying to read the one's I'm paying attention to. So, it makes sense to step away from the crowd and find a quiet corner somewhere in the D (which, unfortunately, is the only place I can go if my hero wants to talk to my friend's villain). Every time I do this, some little know-it-all shows up to pass judgement. I'm discussing the details of breaking into a lab in the Rogue Isles, and they're going on about how wrong it is to do what we're doing and blah blah blah...

It's not that I'm concerned about my reputation. I have no reputation. No one knows who I am, or cares, outside of a very small group of people who took the time to notice the very quiet character in the corner that was just doing her job (a lot of my characters fit that description... hmm... that's weird. Never really noticed that before.).
I had a point in here somewhere. Oh yeah!

My point is, regardless of what I'm doing with that pastey fellow in the corner over there, when did it become anyone else's business? People who have appointed themselves the RP Police annoy the living hell out of me.

Bottom line is:
- No one should tell you how to play your character. But an untouchable, flawless, all-powerful, god machine is not a character... It's just stupid.
- You shouldn't tell anyone else how to play their character. Just point, laugh, and ignore with the idiot ones and keep looking for the good ones! They're out there!
- Don't be a jerk just for the sake of being a jerk.
- Pay attention! Get to know the person you're talking to before propositioning them! At least know what's on the other end of that pm! Read a bio once in awhile! Jeez!

This problem of "godmodding" power, the ability to instantly know everything about everyone or everything about everything, it's always been a problem, whether it's in CoH or around a table. Why do so many people need to have this ability?

I've actually seen this more with supposed heroes than villains, too, which worries me, because a hero with that much power should know better than to use it so casually. Not to mention, there's always someone who, as someone said above, can resist by using mental techniques or out of sheer stubbornness.

Roleplaying is playing a role, but playing roles so far "superior" to everyone else only makes other roleplayers run for the hills. People would rather RP with the dark, silent characters than someone who'll mock them and insult them and other cheap shots.

For the record, I do have a psi user character who can read minds. Does he use it? No, because as a hero, he has ethics and morals. He also isn't so powerful that he can instantly know everything about someone by reading their mind. It'd take him several hours at least before he could manage even a general life history, and years to get a specific life history. I treat psi powers as requiring some effort, and I always make it a point to ask in a tell if he could pick up a stray thought or emotion from the other character, if it's appropriate to the situation (heightened states or moments of weakness, that sort of thing). That's how I role.

My solution to this is to give them a one-way trip to my Ignore list, and write down their handle so that, when I keep adding influence spammers to it, and theirs comes off the list because of it, I just re-add it. I've kept no less than 25 people on that list that way.

I suggest mild cooperation with a Mary Sue to avoid the antagonism you can receive if you ignore the Mary Sue or refuse to accept their premise. In some ways, a Mary Sue is a passive-aggressive form of griefing.

The best thing you can do with griefing (in my experience) is pat them on the head gently and then be on your way.

Of course they want their toon to be the end all be all. It doesn't make them a bad person, just means they are a normal kid.

Having started roleplay at the age of 11, and having worked volunteer jobs where I'd GM for kids...and having mentored kids directly with gaming both paper and plastic, I must tell you that my humble experience is that most Mary Sue's are not kids. In fact, show me a disgruntled, intelligent gamer in their late 20's and 30's, whose real life has fallen a little short of their obvious intelligence, and I'll say the chances of that gamer using their game to vent their frustration or somehow prove their own worth begins to rise.

Kids, I find, are superb roleplayers, if you can forgive certain aspects of their play. It comes naturally to them, I find, because they do it all the time. And they generally like having people lead them through stories and arcs, and when they do create their own, they tend to be wildly imaginative and unique.

It's the "adults" amongst us, that in my experience, cause the most RP grief, and even, get threatened with the idea that kids would dare to attempt RP. Kids tend to have some Mary Sue elements, like for example, claiming they are related to someone vastly important in the game. But in terms of insisting they can read everyone's mind all the time - or insist on establishing that nobody can ever understand them or read their minds, or learn anything about them, but they can do whatever they please - that's a cognitive dissonance that adults perfect much more readily than kids.

Kids can be derivative, in terms of concepts and names, especially when they first attempt the hobby, but Mary Sueism, in my experience, is more than likely to come from the arrested development of a very intelligent, but somewhat frustrated gamer. The RP equivalent of the dude that kept claiming: "I waste him with my crossbow".

I do have one psychic at the moment, and she pretty much handles it like having a mental cellphone. Yes, you *could* call random numbers just to see, but that's both awkward and mostly rude... but I have been around the sorts that basically say 'tell me what your character is thinking' and if I happen to be playing one of my two that's resistant to psi get really pissy when I say 'as far as you can tell, nothing'

My main character and handle namesake is practically neurotic about respecting other peoples' "headspace." It actually translated into some pretty good RP with another psychic who took a more relaxed attitude, where it was pointed out that she was tying herself in knots she was so cautious about it.

As to people RPing intrusive psychics... yeah, its crass and rude. The way i deal with it ranges from my other psychic characters going GET. THE F. OUT to people realising they were being spied on and leaving, to a character just thinking completely banal thoughts. Dry cleaning, shopping lists, etc.

This is how I deal with this

Psi-Ko: I reach into your mind and read your thoughts and learn all your secrets
Me: No, you don't.
Psi-Ko: my character is psychic. They can read minds
Me: Then press the "Mind Read" power on your power tray and see what you get
Psi-Ko: I don't have a mind read power...
Me: Exactly.

Before anyone replies about mind reading being RP'd and how RP'd powers don't need to match up to actual in game mechanics... thats not the point. It's just how I shut down the god-moding power posers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltonio This is over the top mental slavery.

It may not be my place to say this, but I think someone should "bloodninja" some of these psi-seductions for kicks.

My rule of thumb has been that RP is a game of "give and take." If you want to go out on some RP angle, and pretend you are awesome in some way, you need to be willing to give something and bend in your RP in some manner.

My other rule that I try to follow in storytelling is "Show and imply. Do not tell." I will pull out my gun and threaten, I will imply I am taking an action, I will send a psychic probe, but has always been my intent to NEVER tell another character what happens to them. I then wait to see how the other player responds. The great RP'ers that I have had the privelege of playing with know exactly how to rebound off this kind of interaction, the poor ones...I verbally assault with my vocabulary.