Self-Revive power disparity

Be warned, this is more of a rant post, though it does have some (un)pretty numbers in it. I had a few frustrating experiences using Revive on my Peacebringer, and wanted to see how other powersets differed on this same power.

The powersets being compared are: Willpower, Regeneration, Fire Armour, Dark Armour and Warshade. Peacebringer's have the same rez as Regeneration.

Commonalities are a 300 second recharge, and debt protection for 90 seconds.

All powersets except Willpower have a 15 second immobilize placed on the character. Willpower may have this, but it isn't mentioned in either Mids or the game.

Fire, Dark, and Warshade do damage to enemies within 25 feet radius, and have 15-seconds of total invulnerability (untouchable status).

HP% End% Effects
Willpower 80 50 +200% Recovery, +21% ToHit, +28% Dmg, +100% Rech
Regeneration 75 50
Fire Armour 50 50 (25' radius): 14.9 sec Stun (4 mag), 333.7 Dmg, KB 8.31
Dark Armour 21.6 30 (25' radius): 11.9 sec Stun (30 mag), 62.6 Dmg
Warshade 27 30 (25' radius): 47.3 Dmg

Untouchable also means that you can not be healed by an outside source, but you also can't be hurt. Think intangible.

Willpower bonuses are for 90 seconds, followed by 45 seconds of: -21% ToHit, -28% Dmg

Dark Armour and Warshade require an enemy within their radius, or no resurrection occurs

Conclusions would be that Willpower is vastly superior to Regeneration. Not only do you get a bigger heal (compounded by their auto power adding 20% more hit points, it's actually 96% if you took High Pain Tolerance), but you get extra recovery, recharge, and a minor build up for 90 seconds. After that you enter semi-wimpitude, but the enemies are probably dead by then anyway.

Regen, on the other hand, is probably dead mid-animation, though Willpower could easily share that fate with a large enough spawn.

The other three could well be laughing for 15 seconds. Of course, Dark Armour's spent all that time just getting it's toggles all going again, but one shot from it's heal will have topped up it's hit points. Fire is probably already healed and roasting it's opponents. Warshades will only be at full health if they had 3 opponents, and hit on their heal attack (Essence Drain).

The only thing to really say, after all this, is:

NERF REGEN!

Er, sorry, I meant to say NERF REGEN!

Damn, I'd better leave it at that....

(or, y'know, give em the Willpower equivelant of that power....)

(ooh, or a 15-second spurt of instant-healing goodness)

Because it has to be said:

"People take the rezzes?"

I'd take the Willpower rez, mostly because I love Mutation so much. The other sets I tend to look at the rez as a lv49 power

What's the point of the OP? Different sets get different rezzes. Regen gets more regen than WP. Warshades will always be superior to PBs because WS's rely on enemies while PBs are selfsufficient. Dark and Fiery lack KB protection. PBs and WS get dwarf form to get them out of mez.

So you don't like your self-rez? Ok. Don't take it.

Remember: Powers aren't really balanced with each other, sets are. Formulas are used to standardize powers a bit, but that's generally more so only used when changes are already needed to be made, or a new set is being constructed.

Point being, you can't simply compare powers in a vacuum without taking into account the rest of the set. You might be able to make the case that Regen's self rez could stand for a little buff to help you from being killed during the animation... but even so, it's still useful if you're not solo (i.e. someone else to take the aggro), or the enemies aren't within aggro range.

We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.

You compare different sets and their strengths/weaknesses (all of which are irrelevant during the resurrection), and that's what each of these rezzes have, except for ONE. Regeneration, and by extension, the Peacebringer copycat.

I'm fine with variations to a power, but not when another powerset takes the identical power, with the identical cost, and then takes away the downsides, and adds bonuses to it. And by that, I'm referring to Willpower having no apparent Immobilization (a downside of Regen's revive), while having greater health and multiple beneficial side-effects.

In short, it has the exact same power as Regen, with no downsides, and plenty of extras. If it's going to have that, then there should be less heal to it, or a longer recharge. That, or regen's should be given something to make it comparable in power, but not in effect.

Would you object if it was an attack? Identical end cost and recharge, but one does 10% more damage, and has 3 hard-hitting beneficial side-effects, while the other one has none?

I like my WP tank. I dont' think I've ever been defeated after lvl 20 or so, except for inept AE farms.

You know, it does seem like people with regenerative powers are far more likely to come back to life than people who just want to really bad. It certainly would be thematic for Regen to have less of a vanilla rez. Personally I think it should be expressed with a much faster recharge.

Think of it in terms of snipes and Nukes. They're all relatively the same. Certain trade-offs. Some do less damage because they're ranged, some (fire) have extra damage as their side effect, while others will drain endurance. Those powersets aren't equal to each other, yet powers that are of the same sort are pretty much balanced by certain rules, even if the powersets don't all seem terribly well balanced compared to each other

@ Vanden;
I can see it's Vandal who's getting duked, but which power set is that? Or is it customised? Very cool, but cannot think what the hell it is! XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

My apologies. You explain it then

Revive exists on Regen as an excellent way to shake off a debuff.

Oh, you could say that of any self-rez.

Unless the debuff in question is the -tohit from The Fool, or the Vahzilok Wasting Disease.

I think the Curse of Weariness sticks around, too. The Crey Narcotic definitely does.

So all the rezzes are slightly different from each other.

That, to my line of thinking is a good thing.

I'll never understand why people want everything to be the same across different sets. If all the sets played the same except for different animations and graphics it'd be.....well, boring.

The Regen rez isn't meant to be used in combat, if you try, you will probably be eating pavement again. Willpower on the other hand is the "never give up" set, so it makes sense to be able to rez and be a little tougher for a minute or so while you stomp a mudhole in whatever it was that dropped you. Classic scenario in movies where the hero gets his butt kicked and then jumps up all pissed off to beat the snot out of the villain. Regen doesn't work quite the same, you just....heal, and stagger to your feet after you've healed enough.

Thematically it makes sense for Willpower to have a better rez because it involves getting angry and determined.