Help me understand Fire Manipulation

Now, I realise this is kind of a vague question, so let me see if I can't break it down into something more specific. I've played with Fire Manipulation for some time, and at one point I may have had the illusion that I knew what I was doing, but after leaving this Blaster to rest for nearly a year, I rather doubt this. Fire Manipulation is one of these sets that seem odd on the AT they are for, and have a lot of what look to be eccentric powers that don't seem to jive with how the AT "wants" to be played. As such, let me ask four specific questions:

1. What is Blazing Aura for? On a Tank, Scrapper or Brute I can see this, but on a Blaster, having a damage aura seems remarkably silly. For a damage aura to have much use, it has to continuously damage enemies for some time. That, however, would mean that I have to continuously stay in melee with said enemies for some time, which pretty much guarantees they'll do more damage to me than I will to them. What use do I have for this power and what do I do with it?

2. What is Burn for? Were this a Fire Tanker back in 2004, I wouldn't even need to ask this question, but for a Blaster right now? The offensive capabilities of this power are more than questionable, with a 25 second recharge timer, no ability to slot for accuracy and the need to immobilise enemies inside the Burn patch. Better to just pop them in the face with something like Blaze, no? I could possibly see it as adefensive power to combat immobilization, but I'm not sure how much use that has if I haven't used it for that once up to this point.

3. What are Fire Sword Circle and Combustion for? Obviously, AoE attacks are pretty much what a Blaster does, but melee-based AoE attacks seem to be more of a liability than a boon, especially when both attacks are so infuriatingly slow, and for what looks to be really no reason. Combustion, especially, is just slow for the sake of being slow, or so it seems. What do I do with these powers without getting killed for it?

But most importantly:

4. What is Hot Feet for? I really can't make heads or tails of this power. Is it a damage aura? Isn't that what Blazing Aura is for? Is it a slow field. What use could I have for something like this? And why in hot hell does it cost so absurdly much? Over 1.0 endurance per second. What in the world could be worth that kind of cost? Just... What the hell, man? What the hell?

Any answers to any of the above, especially number 4, would be very appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

For the most part I think a lot of the Fire Manipulation powers were just left their since they have Fiery Aura from the Tanker set and didn't bother changing powers for the Blaster secondary. Blazing Aura doesn't really serve much purpose on the average Blaster although there are some out there that get good use out of it. I know back in the day a lot of people wanted it taken out and replaced with something that the normal player could get good use out of. I have always found Blazing Aura on a Blaster to be counter productive because you are at range, yet have to be in melee range to use the aura. Pretty much as you have pointed out.

Burn has never really had a use in my opinion on a Blaster. I don't think I know a single Blaster that has actually taken Burn. Again I think it is just more of them leaving powers from the Fiery Aura set and porting them to he Blaster secondary since that set has remained unchanged since its inception.

A lot of the FM powers are conceptual in my opinion because wheny ou compare them to the other Blaster secondaries, Fire doesn't really fit in well at all when you compare power for power in the set.

Hot Feet us much like Burn in my opinion, completely useless for a Blaster. The only point I could see it taking it would be to use the slow, but even then if you are using it to slow enemies and blasting at the same time, the crazy cost mixed with your usages of powers will drain you fast. Can only think of a couple times I have seen someone take this power also.

1. I use blazing aura for the look and concept. I consider it as extra damage when I'm close to the mobs.

3. I remember people mentioned that combustion has a large radius. And yeah, combustion is slow.

4. Hot feet has a radius of 20 ft, while blazing aura only has 8 ft. Hot feet does damage, -fly, -runspeed and mag 3 afraid, said city of data. I don't use it myself because my blaster hovers and can't use hot feet. I think it's a controlling power.

Get ready to get flamed.

You guys are absolutly right in what your saying, and FYI ive been saying the same thing for awhile, but everyone else will flame us for saying it.

My take on fire manipulation is this

:Blazing Aura: Someone was too lazy or in too much of a hurry to bother with updating this from the tank carry over. With a 8ft damage range and a much larger aggro range if you actually hit something with it, it brings in more damage than it dishes out by far.

Burn: This power has some serious damage potential IF it's slotted up and IF the target you with to apply it to is rooted for it's full duration. It's situationally useful to use it wih ring of fire, then get out of line of sight, then reapply. Very situationally useful if you have an APP hold, (like if you have low endurance, and a single tough target with a lot of hit points, no inspirations, consume is down, and for some reason you don't want to regroup)

Hot feet works while flying, you just have to toggle it on while on the ground, then take off. It stacks nicely with rain of fire, and slows down incoming damage, sometimes even enough to make it worth the endurance, cause the damage ticks help finish off anything that survived your alpha.

Combustion is just weak, except on the ITF when the EB and AV aggro is locked onto something else. Slotted up it does nice damage over time for the endurance cost, and if you aren't dealing with aggro the eternal root time from the animation is ok.

I farm the Cim wall from time to time with my fire fire blaster, and I use two different builds, just for variety.
Build one uses ball breath FSC sword blaze blast and medicine.
Build two has rain, burn, feet, blazing bolt, no FSC no combustion.

Build one drops orange conning spawns much more quickly, but needs enough time to use aid self to finish the spawn quickly.
Build two actually drops damage output from the AoE opening because of the scatter from rain and feet, but lives longer even without the medicine pool. Its much more important with the second build to rely on blaze flares and blast to take down the LT's and healer, but more difficult to do if there are more than one or two dangerous opponents left.

I have used both builds on teams, and find that I very much prefer the build without feet and burn. It just does so much more burst damage.

Hot feet is actually really nice. The avoidance+slow provides a lot of mitigation.

To reference an earlier example: rather than the freak tank (assuming anyone fights freaks in i16) coming up to you and 2 shotting you in melee it will generally start to try and avoid hotfeet and just occasionally turn and use its ranged attack. Pretty handy.

The damage is ok on the power. Pretty solid with aim/bu and defiance running.

Blazing aura is the problem though. Your blaster wants things close, but not THAT close. /elec manip seems to realize this and made lightning field a way bigger aoe than the normal damage auras. If blazing aura was as big as hotfeet they'd work very well together providing strong mitigation and strong damage to enemies that aren't all that close (moderate range). But it doesn't work that way unfortunately.

Burn: no idea what it is useful for on a blaster other than the avoidance, but you already have that in a much larger aoe in hotfeet.

FSC = great, big aoe damage and fast enough where you can use it and then back off. Combustion = too slow.

I also noticed that hot feet can't be toggled during flight, but after toggled on, I can fly with it. Maybe I should have elaborated when I wrote that.

I end up not picking hot feet for my hover blaster though. Because it looks kinda ugly as the hot feet becomes "hot plate" during flight. And also offensive toggles will go off when mezed, I'm a little too lazy to drop hover and turn it back on again just to toggle on hot feet. Also, if you hover, I doubt that having hot feet high up in the air will do a lot. And lastly, I have a feeling that the ability to retain hot feet during flight may be a bug which may get fixed eventually.

/Fire is, IMO, the red-headed step child of blaster secondaries. It has a few nice things it can do, but the other powers don't synergize well, and unless you have a control-heavy primary, it's really hard to play effectively.

I'm crazy enough to think about pairing it with rad blast when I16 launches.

Well it's not everyone's cup of tea Sam but you can crank out some serious hurt in not so much time fairly easily with the right approach.

This works really well for me but I use IO sets and honestly you can get away with some really cheap ones to do it.

Hot Feet slotted with 3 Acc/Ends and Dam/Slows from 3 different slow sets gives you:

Acc - 130.7%
End costs - .6 per second
-run - 122%
Damage - 24.2 per tick
Dam per End vs a single target - 20.167

That's good all the way up to +2 mobs

Fireball as a comparison

6 slotted with Posi blast does 16.63 damage per endurance and that's if the proc activates. Plus fireball does nothing for your mitigation and has 5' less radius.

(SO slotting for fireball 1 acc/3 dam/1 end/1 rech gives 13.48 damage per endurance)

(SO slotting for Hot Feet 1 acc/2 dam/2 end/1 slow gives 18.71 damage per endurance and will keep even con minions all most at the -run speed cap.)

It takes a different play style to play it.

Here's an example of the way I use mine. (I'll give a running total of AoE damage delivered using SOs only)

I run PFF from Force Mastery with Hot Feet and Blazing Aura running. I jump into the middle of the mob, get their attention and splash the alpha.

While the Alpha is splashing I'm popping Aim and Build Up. I drop PFF and cast Rain of Fire where I'm standing (most every thing is now in melee range and effected by Blazing Aura).

The mobs have used their alpha attack and aren't ready to cast anything else yet (this actually works even better now with the bug that has the mobs having no delay on their attacks after notification) when PFF drops they are immediately affected by the avoid in Hot Feet which is then stacked with avoid in Rain of Fire.

In the first 2 seconds after dropping PFF you've hit twice with ticks from Blazing Aura and Hot Feet and the first tick of Rain of Fire and the mobs have started to run away but at the -run speed cap. (177.16 damage)

Fire Sword Circle takes 2.67 seconds to cast. That means that the mobs have taken another tick from Hot Feet (they are probably out of Blazing Aura range by now unless you have one on follow) and 18 ticks from Rain of Fire. (635.24 including the enhanced base base damage from FSC. Minions should be dead or dying now.)

Fire Ball takes another 1 second to cast (every thing should still be in Fire Ball radius) adding 5 more ticks from Rain of Fire and 2 of the 3 ticks from FSC. This is also the point where some of the mobs will stop and finally make a ranged attack against you. (898.04 damage including the enhanced base damage from Fireball)

Combustion takes 3 more seconds (every thing should still be in Combustion radius) which adds 2 more ticks from Hot Feet, 15 more ticks from Rain of Fire, the last tick from FSC and the 3 ticks from Fireball. This is where things that are still alive and haven't had the run AI kick in may make a second atatck. (1294.64 damage including the enhanced base damage of Combustion and it's first damage tick. Lieutenants should be dead or dying by now.)

This is about where Aim runs out and some of the stuff may have made it to the edge of Hot Feet where they can finally begin to run away at full steam or they may turn to attack. Taking a step towards them puts them back in Hot Feet radius and back in the damage and slow field. They also have 9 more seconds of Rain of Fire damage (though they may make it out of the radius before it's duration ends) and 7 more seconds of burn damage from Combustion. (1698.08 Damage).

At this point Bosses should be below 3/4 health which, with the remaining time left on Build Up, a quick Blaze should drop as well. You will probably be between 3/4 and half health at this point.

Now a couple things to consider in the above is that I didn't take into account the 5% of all attacks that miss, nor did I account for each damage tick from FSC and Fire Ball only having an 80% chance of occurring and that if a roll fails the following ticks are not checked for BUT I didn't account for defiance either which would boost damge up another 20% or so.

I hope that gives you an idea of the appeal that Fire/Fire/Force has for some of us. I'll also be the first to admit that the play style lacks appeal for some players.

Some of these are potentially useful in what may be a longer, drawn-out fight. Part of the question, as well, is "Are you going to prefer melee or range?"

Wish I could say precisely what I did on my Fire/Fire - I don't believe I took burn. Some of my power choices, as well, were considering the teaming I normally had. Teaming with a Kin regularly? For best effect, you're going to be in melee *anyway,* so Hot Feet, Consume, Blazing Aura, etc. are going to be worth more. (They should, of course, be dropping ID on you if they have it.)

Of course, you're not on a regular team, as you said. FSC is still quite useful (IMHO,) Hot Feet to slow and scare things away, but the rest in your situation I'd call purely optional.

Then again, we do have dual builds if you decide to try a different form of melting faces.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Fire Manip was my first ever Blaster Secondary... teamed with Elec primary no less. It has serious hurt built right in. I never took or intend to ever take Burn.

-Combustion is slow and never sees combat unles I actually have nothing else to throw out... gonna respec out of it.

-Fire Sword and Fire Sword Circle are just straight up mean, if you skip them, you'll be sorry... awesome damage capabilities there.

-Consume is great, not wowwy awesome suace like Power Sink, but still great (plus there is damage in it too).

-Hot Feet, loves me Hot Feet. If you tend to fly a lot, then skip it and just run Blazing Aura, that way you don't have to land to toggle.

Straight blapper joy is what Fire Manip is, that's all I'm saying.

much love for it here. =D

Eh, I almost forgot to tell you Sam. When you solo on Fire/Fire you are going to get alot of inspirations. Eat them. Eat them and love them.

Since you are solo all the insps that drop are going to you. I can easily eat 6-8 a spawn and have them all back again (sometimes more) before they've worn off. That's how fast fire/fire destroys stuff.

Teamed you don't get as many but teamed you should have the support of teammates and not need to use as many.

The long animating powers are fine for me. While combustion is going off I'm combining insps.

FSC at 2.67 seconds gives me time to combine insps too.

If insps truly were candy my fire/fire blaster would have a huge dental bill.

Back to front:

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Originally Posted by StratoNexus What is your primary?

Fire Blast. What else?

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Definitely use inspires. Reds to make them die faster, purples to make them miss. Use the big hitter (or control power) from your primary to eliminate the most troublesome threat first. If stunned, stagger towards an enemy so you can Sword them when it wears off. If held or slept, keep shooting, Ring of Fire does great damage (if its slotted, which can be hard pre-40).

I hear that a lot, but inspirations simply don't drop with the speed with which I need them. I never really let my tray get completely full, and I've even taken to carrying around purples which I save for special occasions, but even then I rarely get enough inspirations to match the inspirations I use. In fact, I constantly end up having to combine things into break frees. I just don't see myself being able to rely on inspirations more than just tangentially.

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When in trouble, move right up next to the biggest threat and kill it. When in trouble, get closer to the enemy. When something runs at you, laugh at its audacity and punish its stupidity. This is a difficult mindset to learn.

Would that it worked, but I can't seem to manage it. Minions I can one-shot with at least two powers (Blaze and Blazing Bolt, to be precise) and lieutenants I can kind of two-shot or three-shot if need be, but multiple dangerous lieutenants are still... Well, dangerous. And bosses always end up taking upwards of 10 attacks, which is both more attacks and more time than they need to kill me. And if they're something annoying, like Crey Protectors who hold at range and punch absurdly hard in melee, it's kind of a no-win situation. The fact of the matter is that, unlike with Energy Manipulation, I don't really have anything that gives me INSTANT relief. The biggest melee attack I have is Fire Sword, which while strong, isn't even as strong as Blaze - a ranged attack. The melee-centric AoEs are powerful when I combine them, granted, but still not as powerful as Fireball + Fire Breath, yet they both take longer to do and put me right in the thick of it to use. I just don't have anything I can do in melee that has a QUICK payoff. Everything takes so long to materialise.

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Keep in mind, I describe Fire Manipulation as I view it and as I feel it can be used to its fullest. You seem to be asking how to use the melee based powers, so I describe that (and that is the way to maximize what Fire Manip brings to the table). You can play with a ranger style if you prefer, Ring of Fire is good enough on its own to justify such a choice (especially if concept drives you to /Fire Manipulation).

To be honest, I don't really want to stay at range specifically. I want to deal as much damage as I can, but above all else, I want to survive. With my Energy/Energy Blaster, I could run up to bosses, chain-stun them and quick-kill them. Like, in four attacks or thereabout, quite literally. With my Fire/Fire Blaster, these fights drag on and there really isn't anything terribly impressive I can do to a boss in melee that I can't do at range. In fact, my AoE spam is MORE impressive at range, with Aim + Build Up + Fireball + Fire Breath + Rain of Fire if need be being pretty much enough to wipe out an entire spawn, sometimes including lieutenants. By comparison, Combustion + Fire Sword Circle takes longer to come out, does less damage and puts me in a terrible position for Breath of Fire, easily my strongest area effect attack short of Inferno.

I Sincerely hope that with Fire Shield and Rise of the Phoenix I'll have a bit more of a leg up. I know Temporary Invulnerability and Personal Forcefield really tuned my Energy/Energy Blaster around, and I remember the sweetness that was Munitions on my pitiful AR/Dev Blaster. With five powers in there, though, I don't know what to take. The hold, the shield and the self-rez are an absolute MUST, but I can't decide between Bonfire and Melt Armour.

*edit*
Because I really should say it: thank you.

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Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I've heard that slotting Hot Feet for slow can be extremely effective. Imagine everyone running away in very slow motion (and not attacking) while you chase them with Blazing Aura on, and possibly Burn ticking away too. The slower they arem the lonegr they take to leave the afraid effect and turn round and shoot.

Unfortunately, my Fire/Fire blaster (first character ever - what a baptism of fire! *cough*) stopped at 36, so I never tried this out.

I will say that I lived and died by Fire Sword Circle and Blazing Aura. My typical tactic was: Locate spawn of +2s or +3s. target the Leiutenant. Run in with Build Up or Aim going off (I'd alternate these two per group, since high kill speed was the name of the game), fire off FireBall as I approached and then Fire Sword Circle once I hit the mob. Blaze the lieutenant in the face and apply Aid Self while they all lie down. Use Fire Sword if there are two leiutenants.

I hadnt got the hang of using Fire Breath at this point, hence the slightly odd tactics. I'm not really recommending these tactics to anyone, I was new to MMos and died a lot, but it was a lot of fun and quite effective.

I found that running Blazing Aura let me do this to +2 s and +3s instead of +1s, so it was definitely a worthwhile power. Using Fire Breath as an opener is obviously even better, but Im sure there are other situations where Blazing Aura is the difference between a spawn lying at your feet or all standing around you with a sliver of health and you just having single target attacks left. Its not a total garbage power.

That said, my more recent Fire/Energy Blaster (and my practice with Fire Breath) is miles ahead. No surprises there.

BTW I highly recommend Bonfire.
Its great when you need a breather from melee.
It's awesome in places like those tight little police stations on bank missions, doing both decent damage and keeping nasties like carnie bosses flopping about in a corner while you destroy them.
Its also a nice fire and forget against AVs and GMs who arent affected by its knockback.
All in all a surprisingly useful power - I took it thinking it was situational, but have found that it was more a case of "any situation that isnt a big outdoors map".