I agree with you. If it's a choice between FSC and FB, FB all the way.
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Breath + Ball is a great choice as well, many (maybe most) would say its the better choice. So, why FSC?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
See, here's what I don't get. Why Fire Sword Circle? I keep seeing that combo suggested to me a lot - Firebll + Fire Sword Circle, and I can't quite figure it out. Why not Fireball + Fire Breath + Rain of Fire, even? Fire Breath does more damage than Fire Sword Circle, even if you account for the 80% chance extra damage. Fire Breath is 109.8 damage at level 50, while Fire Sword Circle is 102.88. And Fire Breath has both a bigger area and one that's easier to full out. A 40 feet, 30 degrees cone comes out to around 418.67 square feet, while Fire Sword Circle's 10 feet AoE is only about 314. That, and Fire Sword Circle can only really hit things immediately around you, whereas Fire Breach can reach quite a ways out.
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- It used to have a 1.5 second cast time
- Getting into the middle of the spawn lets you leverage Hot Feet and Blazing Aura and Combustion and Consume and Burn and as Fire primary you can drop Rain at your feet and have everything slow capped inside Rain and Hot Feet
- Getting into melee lets you leverage Fire Sword (and Blaze to a lesser extent, and in the past Blaze was only 20 feet, so it used to be practically melee)
- Some people find it more fun to be in the enemies face
- Teamed (which does not apply to you, but is important in this discussion), you get the benefits of Kins easier and the increased survivability on teams allow you to leverage your higher damage
- You will do more damage with a melee heavy /Fire build than a ranger. It is still slightly better than the ranger (before I11 it was massively better), although it is not enough to matter and playstyle choice is the key (which is a great place to be, both options viable and fun).
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Overall, having just taken Hot Feet, I can see why people were touting the power's virtues. Currently I only have it slotted with a single thing, which is a endurance reducer (and even so it still costs more than most entire defence sets), but I'm already seeing what I was told to look for - enemies run away a lot of the time, and they do so in slow motion. The bad thing is that I'm not seeing nearly the amount of mitigation I heard about, as enemies turn around to shoot at me roughly every two seconds or so (which is fairly normal, from what I've seen of avoid mechanics) and for some that actually matches their attack cycle anyway, but it DOES keep melee heavy hitters off my back, which is good. It does cause some scatter, but I use Rain of Fire, so what's a little scatter anyway?
 I haven't had much chance to test it extensively, other than to tell it KILLS my endurance bar, but what I'm seeing so far is encouraging. This might be the change that turns things around, or at least holds me over until I can grab Fire Shield. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Say, here's an interesting question: If I want to slot it only with single-aspect enhancements, what enhancement should I give Hot Feet? From the looks of it, two endurance reducers are absolutely necessary, and maybe damage at some point would be nice. How about accuracy, though? What about slow?
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Level 38: Hot Feet -- TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(39), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(40), C'ngBlow-Acc/Dmg(46)
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Understood. The thing that brought this about was that using Breath of Fire effectively requires range, which actually fits in well with the range on Fireball, but if I rush into melee, the power is really difficult to get much use out of, hence why it becomes a choice of one or the other. Granted, I've taken to opening from range and THEM moving into melee. Especially on a team, Fireball + Fire Breath + Rain of Fire + Combustion + Fire Sword Circle makes for some very pretty sightseeing |
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Breath + Ball is a great choice as well, many (maybe most) would say its the better choice. So, why FSC?
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| I have often said that Hot Feet is the power that brings /Fire Manipulation together, but its a bloody long road to 39. One day maybe we can convince Castle that Consume doesn't need to be on a 3 minute recahrge and should be 1 minute like Power Sink or Energy Drain. |
Beyond that, the set does feel a bit... I'll-staged. Hot Feet seems to be a great boon, but it comes so very late, while the rest of the set is filled with... Oddities, shall we call them. I would certainly be open to a revision of Fire Manipulation at some point just to shape things up a bit.
Using just common IOs (or SOs) I'd go 2 End, 1 Slow, 2 Dam, 1 Acc (in that order). The slow is auto-hit, but the damage needs Accuracy. This power is great for Frankenslotting set IOs, but I can understand if you want to avoid them. I am kind of interested in how you do without +recovery IOs (or maybe you have them).[/QUOTE]
Interesting... I have a habit of slotting three damage enhancements, but I can certainly see myself getting away with two, especially if there is something that might be a lot more useful. I'm assuming the slow is to prevent enemies from scattering? I do know that how slow they run has no effect on how frequently they turn around to shoot (it's a lot like Afraid/Fear, being that it used to be very much the same mechanic once upon a time), it just changes how far they travel before they do. I'm seeing that Hot Feet is unable to keep an enemy from running in, hitting me and only THEN getting caught by the Avoid effect, though I suppose with more slow that might be mitigated.
Should I be slotting slows in Rain of Fire, then? Can I even do that?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Rain of Fire doesn't accept slow sets or enhancements.
I know that you tend to avoid set IOs but if you use HamiOs 3 Nucleolus and 3 Microfilaments work very well in Hot Feet.
Also in the same vein as StratoNexus' post you can frankenslot the slow sets for cheap heightened performance.
Level 38: Hot Feet -- P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx:50(A), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow:50(39), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx:50(39), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow:50(39), CtlSpd-Acc/EndRdx:30(40), CtlSpd-Dmg/Slow:30(40)
The above slotting takes you right up to the point where ED just begins to touch the values of all the things that are important to have enhanced in Hot Feet.
74.27% on Acc, Dam, Slow, and End.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Yeah, no one picks a secondary for the higher level powers. I did mention that I took Fire Sword Circle and Consume (that shot was taken @ lvl 25), and will be taking Burn and Hot Feet.|
Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
I have to say Bubba that it makes little sense to me to have done that with your Fire/Fire. You could have paired it with ANY secondary other than Devices and done the same thing.
Well ok Energy too since there's no immob in it. But with your power selections you would have been much better off going /energy to pair with Fire/ just for boost range. Or if the top tier powers for mitigation are what you wanted you could have gone /Ice and got quite a bit more mitigation quite a bit earlier. So I have to say ??????? |
Another thing to think about is sometimes you don't always control where the mobs are placed. If they're grouped in front of you, or you are able to quickly position yourself to make use of a cone to the best of your ability, use Fire Breath. But if the enemies happen to be grouped around you, or it's quicker to drop into the middle of a spawn for whatever reason, use Fire Sword Circle. Or, if you're needing to use consume, use that chance to also fire off Fire Sword Circle and/or Burn. And sometimes it's easier to use Burn instead of running away for some mitigation.
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The slow is to prevent them from scattering.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Interesting... I have a habit of slotting three damage enhancements, but I can certainly see myself getting away with two, especially if there is something that might be a lot more useful. I'm assuming the slow is to prevent enemies from scattering? I do know that how slow they run has no effect on how frequently they turn around to shoot (it's a lot like Afraid/Fear, being that it used to be very much the same mechanic once upon a time), it just changes how far they travel before they do. I'm seeing that Hot Feet is unable to keep an enemy from running in, hitting me and only THEN getting caught by the Avoid effect, though I suppose with more slow that might be mitigated.
Should I be slotting slows in Rain of Fire, then? Can I even do that? |
With one Slow enhancement, Hot Feet caps (or at least stays very close to cap), vs. +2s. It matters, IME. Hot Feet + Rain of Fire should cap up to +3s, IIRC, without any enhancing (and as Miladys Knight already noted, Rain cannot be enhanced for slow).
It is preferable to cap damage in Hot Feet, but without set IOs I do not think it is workable. You would have to sacrifice either Acc, Slow, or End reduction, all of which are more important than that last 15% or so damage.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Missed that line in your post. As far as positioning and mob placement on my Fire/Fire goes I use teleport for travel so I "suddenly appear" in the midst of the mobs with hot feet running.
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Originally Posted by Bubbawheat
Yeah, no one picks a secondary for the higher level powers. I did mention that I took Fire Sword Circle and Consume (that shot was taken @ lvl 25), and will be taking Burn and Hot Feet.
Another thing to think about is sometimes you don't always control where the mobs are placed. If they're grouped in front of you, or you are able to quickly position yourself to make use of a cone to the best of your ability, use Fire Breath. But if the enemies happen to be grouped around you, or it's quicker to drop into the middle of a spawn for whatever reason, use Fire Sword Circle. Or, if you're needing to use consume, use that chance to also fire off Fire Sword Circle and/or Burn. And sometimes it's easier to use Burn instead of running away for some mitigation. |
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Sam: You mentioned that enemies in Hot Feet turn around and shoot at you.
Yep, thats true, Hot Feet will not prevent them from shooting you. What it DOES stop them from doing most of the time is walking up and punching you in the face, which by some twisted logic hurts more than being shot.
Most enemy types in the game deal less damage from range than melee, so Hot Feet's mechanic of keeping them from staying in melee range and pounding on you actually IS a little bit of mitigation. Yes, you're taking damage from being shot, but you'd be taking MORE damage if they were free to smash your face with an energy melee attack.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Since the OP's questions have been well answered, I thought now would be a good time to vent about /Fire.
Fire Manipulation is rife with issues. It's a shame the blaster issues thread is dead; I'd have quite a few to list for the set.
Issue #1: No real rule for target limits on PBAoEs.
Target caps for PBAoEs are inconsistent. Some PBAoEs have a 16 target cap, some have a 10 target cap, and it's basically a coin toss which is which. (See also the many faces of Psychic Shockwave.) Fire Manipulation is especially hurt by this, because it's full of PBAoEs, yet the coin came up tails for the whole set.
Instead, a meaningful rule should be adopted to decide which PBAoEs should hit 10 targets and which should hit 16. The most intuitive way to do this, of course, is to set a cutoff radius. I like 15', the radius of good old Fire Ball, a targeted AoE with a 16 target cap. PBAoEs with a radius smaller than that should hit 10. PBAoEs with a radius equal or larger than that should hit 16. Although multiple sets would benefit, Fire Manipulation would benefit significantly, as Consume, Combustion, and Hot Feet would all be bumped up to 16 targets, and Burn would be bumped up to 10 targets.
Issue #2: No invention sets for Damage over Time.
Most damage powers have side effects, such as slows, mezzes, or debuffs, that allow more choices in slotting invented enhancements. Fire Manipulation gets no such benefit.
Given the pace of the game, damage over time has fallen out of favor. Compare, for example, Gloom to standard 1.64 damage scale blasts: even though Gloom has 1.76 damage scale, it's considered a weaker power because the added benefit of 0.12 damage scale doesn't make up for the 3.5 second delay before the final hit. All eight ticks of Gloom have to hit before the enemy goes down to break even.
With Damage over Time sets, DoT powers would become more attractive. It'd also narrow the gap that opened when some sets got more IO sets and some sets (like Fire) got fewer. In Fire Manipulation's case, /Fire blasters could get access to more procs for utility, or at the very least get a cheaper source of Dam/Acc IOs.
Issue #3: Blazing Aura's numbers don't add up.
Look at the numbers for Blazing Aura: damage, tick interval, radius. Look at the same numbers for Hot Feet: damage, tick interval, radius. Yes, there's something wrong with this picture. (Too lazy to look it up? Same tick interval, Hot Feet does more damage, and in a nuke-like 20' radius compared to Blazing Aura's one-stinking-foot-outside-melee 8' radius.)
Give Blazing Aura the same radius as blaster Lightning Field (along with a 16 target cap, see Issue #1 above). It'll still be an unpopular power, for the same reasons that Lightning Field is an unpopular power, but at least it'll be on the level with similar AT powers, so newbies don't get that nasty why-is-this-power-so-nerfy surprise when they take it for the first time. It'll also open up a more viable hover PBAoE semi-blapper option for /Fire blasters.
Issue #4: Secondary effects get overlooked when damage and recharge times are increased.
This issue affects other blaster sets more severely, but for Fire Manipulation, Ring of Fire's utility took a hit when its damage and recharge time both went up but the immobilization duration stayed the same.
Just as Ice Blast has a longer lasting slow than Ice Bolt, powers should have their secondary effects increased when the recharge time increases. Otherwise, you're slowing down the whole power but only buffing part of the power; it doesn't fully even out. Since Ring of Fire's recharge time went from 4 to 6 seconds, its immobilization duration should also increase about 50%.
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EDIT: In the interest of fairness and balance, a positive note on Fire Manipulation.
Combustion rocks as a costume change power. No sarcasm; it's really good, and I still use it preferentially over the costume change emotes.
I got some of the videos posted. I played more melee centric than I might normally at this level just to see how it worked. While I often start in melee, I normally will pull away from something if I have a miss streak or survivors, but I stayed in just to take the extra melee hits (and to keep BA ticking away).
The first video is some simple clips of street hunting. This is actually the last video chronologically, but I put it first because near the beginning is a shot of my enhancement screen.
Street hunting
The next two videos are the first two missions of the Envoy of Shadows arc. I had a lot of computer issues, I was doing far too much at the same time (I had videos uploading to YouTube, while playing the game and recording with Fraps).
What did the Warriors do?
Oranbega is pretty
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Sacrificing endurance is out of the question, definitely, but what about sacrificing accuracy? I considered that, and I have been advised to skip accuracy on damage auras in the past, but are you saying that is a very bad idea? Certainly, if the power ticked a little more frequently, skipping accuracy may not be such a problem, but with a two-second tick time, it does indeed seem like accuracy is more important than damage.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
It is preferable to cap damage in Hot Feet, but without set IOs I do not think it is workable. You would have to sacrifice either Acc, Slow, or End reduction, all of which are more important than that last 15% or so damage.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This is something I can really get behind, and I can't quite understand why it isn't the case. Generally, when comparing powers between Blasters and just about any AT not using Blast sets, AoEs on Blasters are bigger. For instance, look at how things changed between Fire Breath and Breath of Fire, and how much smaller Kheldian Human Form attacks are as compared to Blaster/Nova Form attacks. Given that, you'd think Blazing Aura would be huge, supersized like the rest of the Blaster AoEs, but instead it's small. As small as the Tanker version. Now, melee AT damage auras work just fine, because the character is in melee anyway. Blaster damage auras are bit... Wonky, however. Blazing Aura, being as small as it is, really requires you to get up close and personal with a lot of enemies if you want it to be worth its weight in damage. In fact, I think it's time I did another "cost vs. effect" comparison for Fire/Fire/Flame, just as a reference point.|
Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
Issue #3: Blazing Aura's numbers don't add up.
Look at the numbers for Blazing Aura: damage, tick interval, radius. Look at the same numbers for Hot Feet: damage, tick interval, radius. Yes, there's something wrong with this picture. (Too lazy to look it up? Same tick interval, Hot Feet does more damage, and in a nuke-like 20' radius compared to Blazing Aura's one-stinking-foot-outside-melee 8' radius.) Give Blazing Aura the same radius as blaster Lightning Field (along with a 16 target cap, see Issue #1 above). It'll still be an unpopular power, for the same reasons that Lightning Field is an unpopular power, but at least it'll be on the level with similar AT powers, so newbies don't get that nasty why-is-this-power-so-nerfy surprise when they take it for the first time. It'll also open up a more viable hover PBAoE semi-blapper option for /Fire blasters. |
Generally, I would like to see at least Blazing Aura's ticks increased to one every second or one every half second, and see its size increased to 15 feet. Either that, or make it a location-summonable entity like a ranged Burn or something. It's just that it's both so hard to use, so costly and so inefficient that it doesn't seem to be worth the power pick. In fact, if it comes down to that, I'll drop it when I run out of slots to give out.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Interesting. A few points of note:|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I got some of the videos posted. I played more melee centric than I might normally at this level just to see how it worked. While I often start in melee, I normally will pull away from something if I have a miss streak or survivors, but I stayed in just to take the extra melee hits (and to keep BA ticking away).
The first video is some simple clips of street hunting. This is actually the last video chronologically, but I put it first because near the beginning is a shot of my enhancement screen. Street hunting The next two videos are the first two missions of the Envoy of Shadows arc. I had a lot of computer issues, I was doing far too much at the same time (I had videos uploading to YouTube, while playing the game and recording with Fraps). What did the Warriors do? Oranbega is pretty |
*You do know you can just click on two glowies and both will count down at the same time, right?
If you have multiple glowies in range, you can just click on them all and they won't interrupt each other.*Huh. You're skirting the line almost more than I am. You do pretty well, but I kept an eye out, and you run out of health and endurance a LOT. Granted, I'm not expecting to be able to play at full everything all the time, but I saw you face more than a few REALLY close calls there.
*You seem to have Tough and a lot of the Leadership powers. Do those help? I have none of those (I literally have only Fire Blast, Fire Manipulation and two powers from Flight). I'm not sure how much these helped, as you did seem to be getting hurt about as much as I was, but it's important nonetheless.
*How do you scare enemies so much? Does Blazing Aura have an Avoid component or something? It seemed like every time you dove into an enemy group, enemies would take one shot then scatter like cockroaches. I can never seem to achieve this effect.
*edit*
*Are you playing on Unyielding? You're doing about as well on what looks like Unyielding as I am on Tenacious. I must be doing something wrong. Either that, or Blasters don't scale up in difficulty as poorly as I thought.
*Why all the temporary powers? I mean, I can see the benefit of the Nemesis Staff or... Is that the Iron Sword? I can see the benefit of them when you're lower level and don't really have many attacks, but at level 37 you ought to have more than enough, all of them better than the Nemesis staff. How come? Why the Iron Sword instead of your Fire Sword? Why the Nemesis Staff instead of Fire Blast and/or Flares?
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hot Feet and Blazing Aura both accept Obliteration Sets making them awesome power picks!
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
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I'm looking at dusting my Fire/Fire/Fire off, but I had a quick question.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
The slow is to prevent them from scattering.
With one Slow enhancement, Hot Feet caps (or at least stays very close to cap), vs. +2s. It matters, IME. Hot Feet + Rain of Fire should cap up to +3s, IIRC, without any enhancing (and as Miladys Knight already noted, Rain cannot be enhanced for slow). It is preferable to cap damage in Hot Feet, but without set IOs I do not think it is workable. You would have to sacrifice either Acc, Slow, or End reduction, all of which are more important than that last 15% or so damage. |
Burn is a power I've never used on my Blaster as I hate the scatter, and it ruins my other PBAoE's from /Fire.
But another thing I haven't tried is slotting Hot Feet for Slows. (I'm usually cheap and stick a set of multistrike in there because it's good on Acc/end/Dam and cheap).
With Hot Feet well slotted for Slow, is that enough to make Burn viable?
Jump in a spawn, hit them with your initial FB + FSC, let BA do it's thing, and with Hot Feet slowing them, will they stay in a Burn patch long enough for it to be effective?
I'm looking at slotting Hot Feet with Pacing of the Turtle and a couple Multistrikes, giving it a 121% slow effect. Would that be enough to basically make the bad guys stand still for the duration of a Burn patch? A Pseudo-AoE Immobilize so to speak?
OK, I did quite an extensive number crunch on Fire/Fire/Flame, but unfortunately I can't post it because the [code] tags seem to still retain some formatting and making tables in them is no longer feasible. Suffice it to say there were some interesting revaluations, and potentially a few loopholes that could save me a LOT of endurance, which might make up for the nasty toggles I need to run.
Instead, here's a build from the unofficial Mid's Hero Designer that I put together today. Keep in mind that my Blaster is currently only up to level 38, so the next 12 levels of slots and powers are more a guesstimate than an actual decision.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Sarah Grimwall: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Fire Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Flame Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Blast -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(3), Dmg-I:50(5), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(36)
Level 1: Ring of Fire -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(43), Immob-I:50(43), Dmg-I:50(48), Dmg-I:50(50), Dmg-I:50(50)
Level 2: Flares -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(3), Dmg-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(36), Dmg-I:50(39)
Level 4: Fire Sword -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(5), Dmg-I:50(13), Dmg-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(37)
Level 6: Hover -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Flight-I:50(7), Flight-I:50(7), Flight-I:50(46)
Level 8: Fire Breath -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(9), Dmg-I:50(9), Dmg-I:50(13), Dmg-I:50(31)
Level 10: Fire Ball -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(11), Dmg-I:50(11), Dmg-I:50(15), Dmg-I:50(34)
Level 12: Aim -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(15)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I:50(A)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(17)
Level 18: Blaze -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(19), Dmg-I:50(19), Dmg-I:50(23), Dmg-I:50(23)
Level 20: Fire Sword Circle -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(21), Dmg-I:50(21), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(40)
Level 22: Rain of Fire -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(36), Dmg-I:50(37), Dmg-I:50(37), Dmg-I:50(39)
Level 24: Combustion -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(25), Dmg-I:50(25), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(40)
Level 26: Blazing Bolt -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(27), Dmg-I:50(27), Dmg-I:50(29), Dmg-I:50(29)
Level 28: Consume -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 30: Swift -- Flight-I:50(A)
Level 32: Inferno -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(33), Dmg-I:50(33), Dmg-I:50(33)
Level 35: Burn -- Dmg-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(42), Dmg-I:50(45)
Level 38: Hot Feet -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(39), Acc-I:50(40), Slow-I:50(43), Dmg-I:50(46), Dmg-I:50(46)
Level 41: Char -- Acc-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(42), Hold-I:50(42)
Level 44: Fire Shield -- EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(45), ResDam-I:50(45), ResDam-I:50(48)
Level 47: Rise of the Phoenix -- Dmg-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(48)
Level 49: Melt Armor -- EndRdx-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Defiance
It may seem stupid of me to build this way, what with the absolute lack of Inventions or Stamina, but it is what it is. I can't really drop enough things to get all of Fitness and I'm not interested in Inventions. I'm slightly worried about how this build would work under stress conditions, as there is a LOT of drain on my endurance pool and lot nearly as much endurance reduction as I'd like to see. Fireball, Fire Breath and Rain of Fire can still bite a big chunk off my endurance even with that slotting.
*edit*
Mids export fixed. The colour scheme kind of sucks, but it didn't list black as one of the colours when I was exporting.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Hotfeet slotted for slow, run to melee, drop burn, FSC, Combust.
All while the enemy is trying to run away (And thus, not attacking).
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You DO realize that Obliteration only has around 18% end reduction at level 50, making it a very impractical choice for a toggle power, right?|
Originally Posted by Grae Knight
Hot Feet and Blazing Aura both accept Obliteration Sets making them awesome power picks!
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Edit: Sam: Use the Zetaboards setting and it will work.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
OK, I figured out how to make tables! In addition to using the [code] tag, I also had to change the font to Courier New. So, behold the fruits of my labour
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The notation for damage numbers here is given twice, because I took damage with and without the additional 80% chance extra damage that a lot of Fire attacks have. For all damage statistics, the one on the left is without the extra damage, and the one on the right with it. Where you XX.XXX, that's a power that doesn't have an extra damage component.Fire/Fire/Flame Blaster Fire Blast : DPE 12.031 | 19.246 EPA 0.917 DPA 11.034 | 17.651 Flares : DPE 17.115 | XX.XXX EPA 1.161 DPA 19.871 | XX.XXX Fire Ball : DPE 3.708 | 5.561 EPA 0.893 DPA 3.312 | 4.967 Rain of Fire : DPE 4.817 | XX.XXX EPA 0.419 DPA 2.019 | XX.XXX Fire Breath : DPE 7.231 | XX.XXX EPA 0.813 DPA 5.881 | XX.XXX Aim : ------------------- EPA 0.057 ------------------- Blaze : DPE 12.753 | 19.522 EPA 0.945 DPA 12.058 | 18.457 Blazing Bolt : DPE 12.031 | 15.955 EPA 0.861 DPA 10.358 | 13.737 Inferno : DPE 1.877 | 3.754 EPA 0.275 DPA 0.517 | 1.034 --- Ring of Fire : DPE 12.348 | XX.XXX EPA 1.087 DPA 13.434 | XX.XXX Fire Sword : DPE 10.890 | 13.619 EPA 0.899 DPA 9.797 | 12.251 Combustion : DPE 6.416 | XX.XXX EPA 0.722 DPA 4.634 | XX.XXX Fire sword Circle : DPE 4.656 | 5.557 EPA 0.816 DPA 3.802 | 4.538 Build Up : ------------------- EPA 0.057 ------------------- Blazing Aura : DPE 7.128 | XX.XXX EPS 0.780 DPS 5.560 | XX.XXX Consume : ------------------- --------- ------------------- Burn : DPE 32.114 | XX.XXX EPA 0.192 DPS 6.178 | XX.XXX Hot Feet : DPE 6.682 | XX.XXX EPS 1.040 DPS 6.950 | XX.XXX --- Bonfire : DPE 7.698 | XX.XXX EPA 0.132 DPA 1.016 | XX.XXX Char : DPE 6.454 | XX.XXX EPA 0.624 DPA 4.030 | XX.XXX Fire Shield : ------------------- EPS 0.330 ------------------- Melt Armor : ------------------- EPA 0.133 ------------------- Rise of the Phoenix: ------------------- --------- DPA 1.107 | XX.XXX
With that said, here's a reprint of a rather long post I made earlier today on a forum where writing code was easier:
What observations did I make? Firstly, both Fire Blast and Fire Manipulation powers are balanced without including the chance damage, which means that they show baseline efficiency (a DPE of 12.031) when the effect does not trigger. This means that a LOT of the time, a Fire/Fire Blaster will be more endurance-efficient than any other Blaster, and not by very little, as well. Additional damage can add up to 50% extra efficiency, which is a LOT.
As well, it should be noted that Flares, though it lacks an additional damage component, is HUGELY efficient even without it. However, the power is also immensely costly, realistically matched only by the equally "small" Ring of Fire and the absurdly expensive Hot Feet. Unlike them, however, Flares has the single highest sustained damage over time of all of Fire Blast and Fire Manipulation. At the efficiency it comes with, using it as much as possible seems like a very smart plan to save energy. You end fights faster AND it costs you less per unit of damage. Win/win.
When it comes to AoEs, that combo's single best is Fire Breath, at an efficiency so high that hitting as few as two enemies makes it more efficient than a single target attack without its extra damage. That's a LOT. Combustion, slow and unwieldy though it may be, is a close second, with a HUGE area of effect and some of the best AoE efficiency you're going to get, again at a around two targets hit to break even. Not only that, but these two powers are relatively cheap to run AND have a very decent damage over time for area effects. By comparison, Fireball is TERRIBLE and Fire Sword Circle is pretty bad, at three and four targets hit to break even, respectively. Counter-intuitively, they are also more expensive to run AND deal less damage over time. They are, however, both pretty quick attacks, even if Fire Sword Circle is quite short-ranged, so that may make up.
Amazingly, Rain of Fire is a very solid power, with an efficiency such that it takes three targets for it to break even. Given that Rain of Fire is a 25 foot AoE, that shouldn't be too hard to achieve, though that's if the targets suffer the rain's entire duration, which is hard to achieve given that the AI wants to run out. Hot Feet can be used to slow enemies and prevent them from leaving the rain, so there's something to be said still. But the power is overall cheap and not very damaging in the long run, so its main use is a fire-and-forget extra damage at an admittedly not too steep a cost.
Blaze is a nice surprise, being naturally a little over-efficient, as well as dealing some of the sets' best sustained damage, and reaching ludicrous levels if its extra damage fires often. This is definitely a VERY solid power that should be used as often as possible. It saves endurance, it does good damage, but it is a bit expensive to support if you never stop to rest.
Blazing Bolt is outright disappointing, with average efficiency, pitiful yield gain with it s extra damage and quite a poor damage output over time for a single-target power. And that's assuming you can use it every time it recharges. It gets worse when you consider it's interruptible. It does a lot of up-front damage, granted, and it's useful as an opener, but its contribution to prolonged fights is minimal.
Ring of Fire is quite a bit of a surprise, as well, being a little over-efficient and doing a LOT damage over time. Of course, this comes at a pretty steep cost, with the problems of limited range and damage delay, and there surely are other powers that can be spammed in the same time, like... Flares! Flares does about the same from a longer range and for a LOT less endurance cost to the damage. Still, when all else fails, resort to this, I guess. Mine isn't slotted yet, so I shy away from it.
Fire Sword is... Diappointing. It's efficiency is below average, meaning it wastes endurance every time you use it, its damage over time is low and the cost to support it is fairly high. This power is pretty bad when you think about it. It's good for shock damage, but it's certainly not something I'd want as a regular part of my attack chain. It's not worth the cost and it's not worth the time investment. It's not BAD, mind you, I'd certainly take it an use it, but it isn't nearly as good as one might think.
Blazing Aura is embarrassing. It is only marginally more efficient than Hot Feet, does LESS damage over time and is almost a THIRD of its radius. Just to give you an idea, Blazing Aura covers ~201 square feet, whereas Hot Feet covers 1256. Hot Feet also has both a Slow and an Avoid component, and while it has a ridiculous endurance cost, it's just much, much more potent. If it comes down to it, I'd keep Hot Feet and drop Blazing Aura like a hot potato. In fact, considering I'll likely run out of slots, that's probably what I'll end up doing anyway.
Burn is a funny power. It's ludicrously cheap to support, has fairly low damage over time, but the damage it does costs you NOTHING. The efficiency of this power is ABSURD, which is only compounded by the fact that it's AoE. If you team with a Controller and drop a Burn patch at the feet of, say, three enemies, you've essentially done as much damage as if you fired off 10 single-target attacks, and all of that at the cost of Brawl. I never realised how much endurance this saved me. I'll slot it and use it more! And remember - the same set that has Burn also has Ring of Fire.
Interestingly, Bonfire is a fairly efficient damage dealing power, at an efficiency of about two targets to break even. However, given that it deals constant knockback, the chances of getting any decent damage out of it are slim. The power is, however, fairly cheap to run, and if you happen upon an enemy that cannot be knocked back, it's also a pretty decent damage dealer over time.
Char looks like a decent damage dealer on the surface, but that's a single-target attack which is half as efficient as its baseline AND has pretty crappy damage over time at a not insignificant cost. I'd stick to using that as a hold and not worry about its damage, personally.
Melt Armour looks incredibly interesting. It doesn't do damage, but the cost of running it is ABSURDLY small, owing to its really, really long recharge timer. But if it really does -250% damage buff to an AoE range of 10 feet as the unofficial Mid's Hero Designer claims, that might be pretty significant. Suffice it to say I can't decide if I want it or if I can skip it for something else.
And that's about all I have. That was certainly an interesting experiment, and it just might change the way I play this character in a fairly big way.
*edit*
And this finishes something I've been doing quite literally ALL DAY.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Pretty sure I learned the inspiration survival technique while Nethergoating in DA. Chowing down columns works best 25+, since you do have more options for emergency combo-making.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
absolutely.
my fire/ice blaster burns inspirations as fast as they drop when I farm DA and at any time has 4-5 effects stacked up. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
See, here's what I don't get. Why Fire Sword Circle? I keep seeing that combo suggested to me a lot - Firebll + Fire Sword Circle, and I can't quite figure it out.
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On a more serious note, targeting with spheres and cones--to be efficient--usually requires picking a different target if you launch one after the other: the guy in the center back for the cone; someone in the exact middle for spheres/circles. Target-switching well as fast as a fire/fire needs to go is a tricky thing, at least for me.
And even though the activation times are the same, Fire Breath just feels so much longer...
Interesting data about the plain old Fire Sword.
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Originally Posted by Rigel_Kent
invention sets for Damage over Time. |
More IO sets! (Anyone know if there are any in i16? I haven't seen anything...)
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I never knew this. I am going to try to remember it, but I somehow doubt I will. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Interesting. A few points of note:
*You do know you can just click on two glowies and both will count down at the same time, right? If you have multiple glowies in range, you can just click on them all and they won't interrupt each other. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
*Huh. You're skirting the line almost more than I am. You do pretty well, but I kept an eye out, and you run out of health and endurance a LOT. Granted, I'm not expecting to be able to play at full everything all the time, but I saw you face more than a few REALLY close calls there.
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Before Hot Feet, Blazing Aura is really a bad pick, I normally recommend not taking BA until 35 (if at all), but I did take it on this character in the 20s on a weird whim. Not sure how useful it has been, although teamed I can be in melee a lot more with a lot less close calls.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
*You seem to have Tough and a lot of the Leadership powers. Do those help? I have none of those (I literally have only Fire Blast, Fire Manipulation and two powers from Flight). I'm not sure how much these helped, as you did seem to be getting hurt about as much as I was, but it's important nonetheless.
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Leadership is probably not worth the endurance solo, but I mostly team with this character. It is also a concept thing, Angels are inspiring. Perhaps Assault helps more than I know, as slivers are my greatest enemy and I might face more of them with Assault off (Hot Feet should help with that a lot).
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
*How do you scare enemies so much? Does Blazing Aura have an Avoid component or something? It seemed like every time you dove into an enemy group, enemies would take one shot then scatter like cockroaches. I can never seem to achieve this effect.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
*Are you playing on Unyielding? You're doing about as well on what looks like Unyielding as I am on Tenacious. I must be doing something wrong. Either that, or Blasters don't scale up in difficulty as poorly as I thought.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
*Why all the temporary powers? I mean, I can see the benefit of the Nemesis Staff or... Is that the Iron Sword? I can see the benefit of them when you're lower level and don't really have many attacks, but at level 37 you ought to have more than enough, all of them better than the Nemesis staff. How come? Why the Iron Sword instead of your Fire Sword? Why the Nemesis Staff instead of Fire Blast and/or Flares?
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The Iron Sword was for giggles and also to figure out what that power I had in number 9 was (Already having a level 50 Fire/Fire/Flame blaster, Pureflame has been level 37 for over a year because I have been terrified of getting Hot Feet and not having enough influence or time to get the +recovery procs, which was part of my long rambling post I mentioned I lost earlier). I figured an Angel ought to have a regular sword too, so I put it into my tray for looks on occasion.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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I'm afraid I've given on Blazing Aura entirely. There's no chance in hell I'll have the slots to devote to it, and even if I did, there's no way I'd be able to run that, Hot Feet, Fire Shield and Hover. Just Hot Feet and Blazing Aura break my recovery. And, as a matter of fact, I'm not getting much mileage out of Hot Feet right now, either. Even on narrow maps, enemies are always scattered, and I lack the means to cause them to bunch up. And they will certainly not bunch up through Hot Feet, itself.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Before Hot Feet, Blazing Aura is really a bad pick, I normally recommend not taking BA until 35 (if at all), but I did take it on this character in the 20s on a weird whim. Not sure how useful it has been, although teamed I can be in melee a lot more with a lot less close calls.
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| Not sure. Massive damage fast and killing off a few of the enemies quickly really seems to break their morale. It usually takes both Fireball and FSC to acheive the effect, perhaps a tick or two from BA helps as well. It is one of my greatest survival tools and perhpas I credit Hot Feet too much for the effect. |
And I do very much what you do.
Right now I think I've hit my stride, so to speak. Blazing Aura stays off, waiting for me to find a whim and respec out of it. For the most part, depending on enemy density, I'll either do what you do and go Fireball + Combustion from melee with Hot Feet running, or I'll open from range with Fireball + Fire Breath + Rain of Fire while I run in to keep enemies from spreading too much. On the occasional two-enemy spawn (+1 lieutenant, +1 minion), I tend to resort to Blazing Bolt and Blaze for the lieutenant, and the minion is usually easy after that.
Bosses remain a problem. They just hit too hard and are impossible to kill fast enough.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Meh, they are set mules. I rarely activate HF or BA with all the other AoE goodness I can put out.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You DO realize that Obliteration only has around 18% end reduction at level 50, making it a very impractical choice for a toggle power, right?
Edit: Sam: Use the Zetaboards setting and it will work. |
Paragonian Knights
Justice Company
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Don't be afraid, be proud and drop Blazing Aura. |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm afraid I've given on Blazing Aura entirely. There's no chance in hell I'll have the slots to devote to it, and even if I did, there's no way I'd be able to run that, Hot Feet, Fire Shield and Hover. Just Hot Feet and Blazing Aura break my recovery.
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It is very lackluster and I have to believe for most people, just plain bad. Small radius, lower damage than it should be, and a bugged (?) end cost higher than it should be. Drop it like the millstone it is.Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Bosses remain a problem. They just hit too hard and are impossible to kill fast enough.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Obviously, I'm not trying to claim one is better than the other, but if I'm going into melee for the sake of Fire Sword Circle, wouldn't I be better off firing Fire Breath from range, staying away from danger and potentially still hitting more people? Granted, from melee I also have the benefit of Combustion, which is a quite a large AoE at 15 feet radius which comes out to about 706.5 square feet, so trust me when I say it is massive. Granted, its damage is somewhat less, at 83.41 at 50, but with easily over twice the land area of Fire Sword Circle, it sounds like a pretty significant AoE, and is one in practice. In fact, whenever possible, I like to use that power and set everything alight. Like Incinerate, it does take some time to deal its damage and that BLOODY LONG animation are really annoying, but I wouldn't call it a bad power.
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Overall, having just taken Hot Feet, I can see why people were touting the power's virtues. Currently I only have it slotted with a single thing, which is a endurance reducer (and even so it still costs more than most entire defence sets), but I'm already seeing what I was told to look for - enemies run away a lot of the time, and they do so in slow motion. The bad thing is that I'm not seeing nearly the amount of mitigation I heard about, as enemies turn around to shoot at me roughly every two seconds or so (which is fairly normal, from what I've seen of avoid mechanics) and for some that actually matches their attack cycle anyway, but it DOES keep melee heavy hitters off my back, which is good. It does cause some scatter, but I use Rain of Fire, so what's a little scatter anyway?
I haven't had much chance to test it extensively, other than to tell it KILLS my endurance bar, but what I'm seeing so far is encouraging. This might be the change that turns things around, or at least holds me over until I can grab Fire Shield.
*edit*
Say, here's an interesting question: If I want to slot it only with single-aspect enhancements, what enhancement should I give Hot Feet? From the looks of it, two endurance reducers are absolutely necessary, and maybe damage at some point would be nice. How about accuracy, though? What about slow?