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What I've found it boils down to with the anti-farming crowd is "If I do it, it isn't farming- if YOU do it, it's farming".|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
Also, I had one other thought.
I've run the ITF 3 times back to back before, just because we were having fun and wanted to do it some more. Same team, 3 times. I have also, on a different night, got on an ITF farm team that were running the ITF back to back for money and chances at purple drops. Were both of these farms? Or was the first one not a farm, since the intent was different? I dont feel intent factors into the definition. Others may. I personally consider both of these scenarios to be farming. What if both scenarios were run across 3 different days. Is time frame a factor in the definition? That is more compelling, but I am uncertain. Lewis |
Although once some guy actually tried to tell me that my DA runs weren't farming because I thoroughly enjoyed them. To be farming, he said, I would have to approach it with a sour face and be grinding for rewards.
The fact that many of us 'grind' rewards with a smile and a happy nod for everyone who passes by is beyond the understanding of most Kontent Kops.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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If you're resetting the same mission and running it over and over without completing it, it's farming.|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
So, if I do the same mission over and over, but I'm doing it for the enjoyment, and drops and tickets are purely secondary, and I'm actually having fun, then its not farming?
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| Also, heaven forbid some farmers actually find getting rewards to be their largest fun. |
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| So, AE missions are never farms then, since you always complete them? |
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| Farming is repetition for results. |
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| Farming is slang, when it comes to gaming. I think using the term for "any repetition of content for rewards" is valid |
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I suggest a new term for the kind of farming which some find distasteful: Chicken Farming.  It fits on multiple levels, doesnt it? Evil + Cowardice?
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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That's well and good, but it's all the people who say "yeah it's boring, but the <xp, tickets, infamy, influence, merits> are so good that I just feel like I have to do it!" that I feel bad for. They're not enjoying the game. They're bored (by their own account), but feel like they "have to" do certain things to get certain rewards. They've turned the game into a second job. That can't be good for them or the game.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The fact that many of us 'grind' rewards with a smile and a happy nod for everyone who passes by is beyond the understanding of most Kontent Kops.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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THIS THREAD, if you would read what the OP wrote, is by someone who FINDS FARMING BORING but feels he has to farm the AE to get tickets. He's hooked on getting tickets and infamy and feels like if he doesn't farm he can't get those things, EVEN THOUGH he's doing something that, IN HIS OWN WORDS he finds boring.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
A self important comment from a non-farmer who thinks their style of play is superior.
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Are you telling me that IN THIS CASE, that is the relevant discussion AT HAND that the OP is actually having fun, and I'm just an ebil non-farmer pooping all over his playstyle? Because if so, I'd have to call attention to the possibility that your objectivity might just be suspect.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Who's forcing them to do it?|
Originally Posted by Smurch
That's well and good, but it's all the people who say "yeah it's boring, but the <xp, tickets, infamy, influence, merits> are so good that I just feel like I have to do it!" that I feel bad for. They're not enjoying the game. They're bored (by their own account), but feel like they "have to" do certain things to get certain rewards. They've turned the game into a second job. That can't be good for them or the game.
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Nobody? Oh, okay. Just checking.
And who are "all the people" anyway?
I mean, I've never met one.
In my experience people do things they think are fun, or that advance their goals, or both.
I doubt there is a meaningful number of players out there joylessly grinding away just because they feel obligated to.
Well, outside the gold farming community, anyway.
This game is really simple. Leveling is easy, earning rewards is easy.
There's no reason for anyone to play in a way they don't enjoy.
Although the accountants don't care if you pay your fee grudgingly or joyfully, as long as they get their money.
Bean counters don't care about motivation.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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That's his problem, not mine.|
Originally Posted by Smurch
THIS THREAD, if you would read what the OP wrote, is by someone who FINDS FARMING BORING but feels he has to farm the AE to get tickets. He's hooked on getting tickets and infamy and feels like if he doesn't farm he can't get those things, EVEN THOUGH he's doing something that, IN HIS OWN WORDS he finds boring.
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And he's operating on a logical fallacy- anything he can grind out in MA I can get from the market in less time with less effort. So could he, if he visited the market forum and took some notes.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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It's a complicated question. Not so much "who" as "what". |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Who's forcing them to do it?
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And who are "all the people" anyway? I mean, I've never met one. |
You know... the guy who started this thread?
or are you saying he's a liar?
You HAVE been reading the whole thread and thus actually understand the context of this discussion, right? I mean you're not just popping in here with a knee-jerk reaction to what you perceive as anti-farming, are you? ARE YOU?
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| I doubt there is a meaningful number of players out there joylessly grinding away just because they feel obligated to. |
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This game is really simple. Leveling is easy, earning rewards is easy. There's no reason for anyone to play in a way they don't enjoy. |
However, there are some people who are obviously doing just that. The OP says he's become a farmer, and he finds it boring, but he can't stop because he's addicted to earning tickets and infamy. I am willing to take him at his word on all those points, and I feel sorry for him that he feels that he has to play the game in a way he doesn't enjoy when, if he were to just relax a little, he could easily earn those same rewards and actually have fun too!
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|
Although the accountants don't care if you pay your fee grudgingly or joyfully, as long as they get their money. Bean counters don't care about motivation. |
And before you say "that doesn't happen!" just go through the boards here. I've seen more than a few "I'm leaving, I'm getting burned out" threads... and that's just from the small population that reads the forums. I'm sure there are plenty of others who've done it.
Hell, I was one of them several years back. I left the game for a year because I got bored with it (not for the same reason, though). People getting burned out and leaving isn't good for anyone, certainly not for the bean counters! And people doing something they find boring because they feel that they can't be successful at the game in any other way is a surefire recipe for burn out.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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But that's exactly what this thread is about. If you're not interested in discussing THIS PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCE... why are you posting here? Because everything being said here is being said in the context of the OP. |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
That's his problem, not mine.
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You knew that right?
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| And he's operating on a logical fallacy- anything he can grind out in MA I can get from the market in less time with less effort. So could he, if he visited the market forum and took some notes. |
So... what are we arguing about again? Is it that I feel sorry for the OP and people like him and you basically don't? I'm ok with that. I still feel sorry for them, and no one is asking you to.
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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I don't know him from Adam, he's just some dude on a forum.|
Originally Posted by Smurch
Um... the OP?
You know... the guy who started this thread? |
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| or are you saying he's a liar? |
Impossible!
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| You HAVE been reading the whole thread and thus actually understand the context of this discussion, right? I mean you're not just popping in here with a knee-jerk reaction to what you perceive as anti-farming, are you? ARE YOU? |
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| Really? Then you haven't played very many MMOs nor met very many players. There's a big, big problem with people doing exactly that, enough of them that a whole new term has popped up for it called "MMO Addiction". |
As long as they can pay up, anyway.
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| However, there are some people who are obviously doing just that. |
Are they a public hazard? No?
Then leave them to it.
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| You missed the point. People who turn MMOs into grinding jobs (and there's ALOT of them out there, whether you've met any or not). That leads to burn out, burn out leads to them leaving the game. How is that good for anyone? |
They're here for the farming. If it wasn't here, they wouldn't be either- they'd be off somewhere that let them farm.
To pursue my gambling addict analogy, the old ladies grinding the slot machines won't suddenly become high stakes Blackjack players because you take out all your slot machines.
They'll just go to some other casino that does have slots.
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| And before you say "that doesn't happen!" |
You're never going to turn those types of gamers into "good" customers though. So just take what you can get from them and be thankful.
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| I've seen more than a few "I'm leaving, I'm getting burned out" threads... and that's just from the small population that reads the forums. I'm sure there are plenty of others who've done it. |
Mostly from players who never quite seem to leave.
But hey, believe everything you read on a forum if you want.
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| Hell, I was one of them several years back. I left the game for a year because I got bored with it (not for the same reason, though). People getting burned out and leaving isn't good for anyone, certainly not for the bean counters! |
All you can do is keep adding content so they'll hopefully come back.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I don't know anyone with cancer. Therefore, people with cancer don't exist.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I don't know him from Adam, he's just some dude on a forum.
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| Wait, are you implying that some anonymous stranger on the internet might be less than truthful? |
I do, however, see your motivation to want him to be a liar.
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| There's nothing knee-jerk about my reactions, they've been smelted in the fiery furnaces of a generation of farming threads. |
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That's no more a problem for the game than a gambling addict is a problem for a casino. As long as they can pay up, anyway. |
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| Then leave them to it. |
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| It's ridiculous to pretend they'd stick around and be ideal customers IF ONLY they weren't presented with the AWFUL TEMPTATION of farming. |
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| You're never going to turn those types of gamers into "good" customers though. So just take what you can get from them and be thankful. |
My suggestion, which you'd know had you bothered to read the entire thread, was that he should try running non-farm AE story arcs. He can still earn the tickets he's grown to love earning, but he may have more fun than what he described as a "boring" option that he saw as the only one.
I presume you don't have a problem with that? Or do you?
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Originally Posted by eltonio
This is over the top mental slavery.
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Some dude on an internet forum telling you he has cancer might have cancer. |
Originally Posted by Smurch
I don't know anyone with cancer. Therefore, people with cancer don't exist.
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Then again, he might not.
You'll do better if you address my points instead of making up your own and attributing them to me.
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I don't see his motivation to lie in this case. I do, however, see your motivation to want him to be a liar. |
I don't care one way or the other.
I don't find his tale plausible, but he's irrelevant to my larger points.
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| So this thread touched a sore spot with you to the point that you're taking things out of context and going "RAWR! FARMING GOOD!" without any concern for the actual subject at hand? Got it. |
Drawing my attention and earning a reply isn't the amazing feat you paint it as.
I suspect there's some projection at work here, since you're the cat who never walked away from a chance to bust out the caps lock.
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| In this case, as long as they continue to pay up. If they stop, it's a problem for the game. |
What is healthiest for a game is to appeal to a wide cross-section of potential players. Having stuff that appeals to the obsessive/burnout crowd will earn you more money over the course of your games existence than not having that stuff.
If your game can appeal to RPers and farmers and 'regular' players and these kinds of burnout zealots, fantastic!
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| Your humanity is staggering. |
And no addict will ever thank you for helping them.
They'll succeed or fail in their battle base entirely on their own resources- what you think about them or think they should do is completely irrelevant to their internal struggle.
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| Again, you obviously haven't read the whole thread, nor the OP. The OP *was* a good customer for years prior to the AE. |
Any purported longstanding "good customer" who uses the forums should already be aware of the many, varied alternative routes the game provides to earning rewards, no? Has presumably been having fun playing other ways, and so understand that their miserable MA grinding isn't the only thing available to them?
You can lead the horse to water, etc etc etc.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
CAP LOCK is GOOD!!
PHARMING is bad!!!
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you just compared the op's sort of "joyless farming" to actual psychological compulsions|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
'some people' cut themselves compulsively. 'Some people' make themselves vomit after they eat. etc etc etc.
Are they a public hazard? No? Then leave them to it. |
that's an odd analogy to make, especially considering bulimia is something that we try to treat because it can result in death
It's a rule of every MMO forum that there are dozens of people who claim they are going to leave the game every week, and never do.
This is the internet. Nothing is new, and nobody is fooled.
Another rule is that at least every other day, the same topic must get a new thread, the same people will eventually get involved, the debate will go back and forth just like it did in the previous threads, and nothing will ever get "solved" because both sides are positive they are correct.
Of course, rule 3 is that someone will be along shortly to point all this out, again, and it'll last until the next thread starts up. 'Round and 'round she goes.
There is a reason I have adopted the Farming is this 1 thing. And nothing else.
It is because I am an ALL or nothing person.
I used to tell people on this very forum that if you have played the game more than 3 times You are now farming the exp... Because doing ANYTHING over and over and over is FARMING.
Have you done ANY contact more than 3 times? You are farming it. PERIOD. As that is the definiation many of you seem to have. And when I say it like that, Many people say:
"Oh No thats not farming thats just playing the game wah wah wah I cant be a real farmer wah wah wah farming kills the game and i am not doing that wah wah wah
Now I believe the only actual farming is done SOLO. 1 Person maybe they have extra accounts maybe they dont. But they dont have extra people along for the ride.
ANYTHING That involves extra people is called TEAMING. Not Farming.
If its a PL team like what people do in the AE then its called a POWER LEVELING TEAM.
If its all level 50s but different people on one of those suppose "Boss Farms" its called TEAMING.
Farming is done by 1 person. A farmer does not share his/her drops with other people. The entire point of FARMING is to get rewards. For me it is tough to do the BP farm. I die sometimes. It is a challenge. I like the rewards get from doing it.
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I pay for my costumes all the time....but then...when you're sitting at the ebil marketeer level of money..a million or two for a costume change is a pittance >_>
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Originally Posted by Prof_Backfire
...I haven't (deliberately) paid for a costume change in years.
But yeah, once you're 50, if you ain't farming purples you might as well be farming dirt. |
Want comedy and lighthearted action? Between levels 1-14? Try Nuclear in 90 - The Fusionette Task Force!
Arc ID 58363!
perfect pain, if your definition of farming includes everyone who has played the game more than 3 times, it is not a useful definition
if you want, we can call your definition farming1 and smurch's definition farming2, but it is farming2 we are discussing here because yours is simply not conducive to discussion
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I farm in the AE.|
Originally Posted by Perfect_Pain
Farmers dont farm the AE.
AE is for PowerLeveling. |
If you know what you're doing with tickets - 100 million influence / hour.
Is purple farming better than that?
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Sadlu CoH/V is rewarding farmin a little bit too well, so its easy to slip into the farming routine.
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Originally Posted by HotFlash
First, A little about myself. I have been playing since release. It took me 854 hours to make my first lvl 50. I never farmed or power leveled that hero or any other hero. That is until AE. The ticket drops on all boss arcs and the gains made from cashing in those tickets for bronze and silver rolls plus arcane salvage have been incredible. I have over $100 million on most of my heroes. Yes, I could resume playing regular content but the call of the ticket has me going back again and again. Run an arc. Trade in tickets. Post at WW. Rack in the profit. Rinse and repeat over and over. My addiction to tickets has led to my massive farming habit. I cannot stop. I have become a farmer.
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Addiction is addiction, whether the problem is a game you don't enjoy playing or an unrealistic body image you will never be satisfied with.|
Originally Posted by _____
you just compared the op's sort of "joyless farming" to actual psychological compulsions
that's an odd analogy to make, especially considering bulimia is something that we try to treat because it can result in death |
The outward manifestation of the problem may be different and obviously some are more immediately dangerous than others, but they spring from the same well.
I know quite a few people who've lost jobs, blown relationships, dropped out of school and generally messed up their lives with video game addictions.
I disagree that a commercial entity should be responsible for 'looking out' for these kinds of people, but they do exist.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
i'd like a bit of elaboration on these two points, specifically|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
The outward manifestation of the problem may be different and obviously some are more immediately dangerous than others, but they spring from the same well.
I disagree that a commercial entity should be responsible for 'looking out' for these kinds of people, but they do exist. |
1) what is "the same well"?
2) is "a commercial entity" referring to the provider(s) of addictive things, addictive games, this game, or something else entirely?
Actually the way I look at farming is right, and the rest of you minus maybe Nethergoat and a few others are wrong.
This is the internet, and so I am RITE, and U R RONG.
Deal with it. Don't argue about something that is this NON IMPORTANT.
/rawr
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Whatever emotional or mental disruption creates the need to indulge in self destructive activities.|
Originally Posted by _____
i'd like a bit of elaboration on these two points, specifically
1) what is "the same well"? |
Quote:
| 2) is "a commercial entity" referring to the provider(s) of addictive things, addictive games, this game, or something else entirely? |
Business exist to make money, not to worry overmuch about the niceties of who they're making money off. Casinos, bars, MMO companies, religions....they all take advantage of people with certain predispositions.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Also, I had one other thought.
I've run the ITF 3 times back to back before, just because we were having fun and wanted to do it some more. Same team, 3 times.
I have also, on a different night, got on an ITF farm team that were running the ITF back to back for money and chances at purple drops.
Were both of these farms? Or was the first one not a farm, since the intent was different? I dont feel intent factors into the definition. Others may. I personally consider both of these scenarios to be farming.
What if both scenarios were run across 3 different days. Is time frame a factor in the definition? That is more compelling, but I am uncertain.
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
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"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
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