Obviously, player skill matters
By
Aura_Familia,
Posted on: 2009-08-10 16:06 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
3 kins + 1 dark... against even cons.
-60% damage from 3 Fulcrum Shifts alone in a 30ft radius. (If all kins were trollers, otherwise even more damage debuff)
-37.5% damage debuff from the Dark Defender'd Darkest Night in a 25ft radius.
All magnified by the -res from Tar Patch.
That would easily floor the enemies damage.
Don't tell me that's not great survivability right there.
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How about an all stalker one ?|
Originally Posted by LordXenite
If an All-Kheldian Team can do it, any team composition should be able to do it.
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That was Sunday nights 'fun' for me.
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We just did an all scrapper ITF, 35 minutes.
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Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper
Yes. A team with zero leadership is a travesty in my eyes. Which is why I've usually got it.
Especially Vengeance on my Rad/Dark  |
Yeah Not too many people can match a defenders leadership values, I tend to take it on the defenders I try to play with.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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At level 50 most Scrappers should not have acc issues, not sure if that comes with experience or common sense.
| Unless there's a bunch of Leadership buffs or the melee have gone out of their way to buff their own tohit, they are quite likely to have acc issues. |
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
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The Dark should barely have the time to summon Tar Patch that the spawn should be dead with sufficient raw offensive power. That's the point of Smurphy. Blitzing through spawns is the key.|
Originally Posted by Ethric
3 kins + 1 dark... against even cons.
-60% damage from 3 Fulcrum Shifts alone in a 30ft radius. (If all kins were trollers, otherwise even more damage debuff) -37.5% damage debuff from the Dark Defender'd Darkest Night in a 25ft radius. All magnified by the -res from Tar Patch. That would easily floor the enemies damage. Don't tell me that's not great survivability right there. |
Kin, Cold, Sonic with their very quick or player-centric buffs are the key.
Dark, Rad, TA, Storm are certainly effective but they are slow to setup.
By watching 30min ITF videos, you could see that a SS/Elec brute could be both invincible and a machine of destruction chaining Footstomp non-stop while having all the mobs around him constantly debuffed by the sonic aura.
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That's because SS has Rage.|
Originally Posted by _dEOS_
The Dark should barely have the time to summon Tar Patch that the spawn should be dead with sufficient raw offensive power. That's the point of Smurphy. Blitzing through spawns is the key.
Kin, Cold, Sonic with their very quick or player-centric buffs are the key. Dark, Rad, TA, Storm are certainly effective but they are slow to setup. By watching 30min ITF videos, you could see that a SS/Elec brute could be both invincible and a machine of destruction chaining Footstomp non-stop while having all the mobs around him constantly debuffed by the sonic aura. |
Blitzing when you miss a lot doesn't really happen.
I mean, I'm sure everyone's right that this team just sucked at playing, but I know that well built toons can still have tohit issues against Romans if they don't have the right buffs and debuffs.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Originally Posted by Ethric
3 kins + 1 dark... against even cons.
-60% damage from 3 Fulcrum Shifts alone in a 30ft radius. (If all kins were trollers, otherwise even more damage debuff) -37.5% damage debuff from the Dark Defender'd Darkest Night in a 25ft radius. All magnified by the -res from Tar Patch. That would easily floor the enemies damage. Don't tell me that's not great survivability right there. |
Yea the stacked -dmg is great survivability.
But what do you mean magnified by the -res?
-Res does not effect how dangerous a mob is, it effects how easy it is to defeat.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Yes. Which is why I said that I'd take two of them if they're kins. Between two kins who are controllers I'd expect if they're each even half decent, that makes one decent controller /kin |
Originally Posted by Wavicle
Controls help a lot yes, but frequently Controller players have too many things to keep on top of to be really good at all of them. /Kins especially.
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But seriously, I'm not one of those people who think that trollers who are /kins are kin/trollers. They're controllers first. Kins second. That's what -I- expect from controller kins, but that's probably because I play one.
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A mob's resistance to the damage type will resist -Dam debuff for that type of damage.|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
Yea the stacked -dmg is great survivability.
But what do you mean magnified by the -res? -Res does not effect how dangerous a mob is, it effects how easy it is to defeat. |
So a mob with 30% Smashing resist, will resist 30% of any -Dam debuff to its Smashing damage.
However, that also applies if the mob's resistance has been debuffed. So a mob with -30% Smashing resist, will take 30% extra debuff from any -Dam debuff to its Smashing damage.
So Tar Pit (and any other -Res power) will increase the strength of -Dam debuffs that are placed upon their victims.
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Did this a while ago on Virtue. It was a blast. We didn't speed through it exactly but we got it done.
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Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
How about an all stalker one ?
That was Sunday nights 'fun' for me. |
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If the team was as bad as you say, saving HT for use as a rez might have been the smartest thing anyone was doing. Granted, with 3-kins it should have been available often enough but in almost any other situation I *rarely* use it just as a debuff. I have to be damned sure no one is going to die. I'd rather have a live teammate (in many cases *several*) than a temporary regen debuff, however good it is.
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Originally Posted by Fury_Flechette
or just players who had the right powers but didn't understand when/how to use them (e.g., howling twilight is powerful -regen and AoE stun *as well* as a rez)
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In other words, play rad/empath or ur useless lolololol|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
Nah, experienced and skilled players would bring real sets instead of 3 kins. Leadership is the second rate backup for buff/debuff sets without -Def or +Tohit. :P
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screw you.
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LOL WUT?|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
Yea the stacked -dmg is great survivability.
But what do you mean magnified by the -res? -Res does not effect how dangerous a mob is, it effects how easy it is to defeat. |
Am I the only one that finds that last sentence hilarious?
EDIT: Seriously! Think on it a sec.
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That's not what I said.|
Originally Posted by Cavatina
In other words, play rad/empath or ur useless lolololol
screw you. |
I said that Leadership are the options provided in the power pools to make up for teams lacking certain buffs.
I didn't anyone who doesn't provide such buffs is useless. And of course Rad and Emp are not the only sets who provide such buffs.
Way to read the most stupid, limited reading of what I wrote.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
LOL WUT?
Am I the only one that finds that last sentence hilarious? EDIT: Seriously! Think on it a sec. |
Thinking.
Still thinking.
Nope, unless what BlackSly wrote above is true (which is possible but if so is a very strange, probably buggy, not often talked about, and quite unintuitive behavior) there is absolutely no way that -Resistance debuffs add to your damage mitigation. Yea, they let you kill things faster, but that is not what I'm talking about, in this case, when I refer to damage mitigation, and was not what the person I was responding to meant when he called the stacked damage debuffs survivability.
-Res is an offensive debuff, not defensive, again unless what BlackSly wrote is true.
Maybe you want to explain just what is so hilarious about saying that -Res does not make a mob less dangerous? Do you typically find that mobs that have had their resistance debuffed (and nothing else) miss you more, attack more slowly, or hit for less damage?
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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I think the point is that mobs hit with -Res are dead, making them significantly less dangerous.
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
Maybe you want to explain just what is so hilarious about saying that -Res does not make a mob less dangerous? Do you typically find that mobs that have had their resistance debuffed (and nothing else) miss you more, attack more slowly, or hit for less damage?
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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Negative, damage resistance resists damage debuffs. By lowering the damage resistance of the mobs, they resist damage debuffs less, making them more effective.
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Originally Posted by StratoNexus
I think the point is that mobs hit with -Res are dead, making them significantly less dangerous.
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Yea, I'm getting that, but that is so obscure and unintuitive that I don't see how it could prompt a "LOLWUT, Think about it" to say that -Res is not really a mitigation debuff.
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Originally Posted by Sarrate
Negative, damage resistance resists damage debuffs. By lowering the damage resistance of the mobs, they resist damage debuffs less, making them more effective.
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Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
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Leadership is the option provided to me to let me pwn harder, regardless of team makeup.|
Originally Posted by Wavicle
Leadership are the options provided in the power pools to make up for teams lacking certain buffs.
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8 Blasters/Scrappers/Tankers/Brutes/Stalkers with slotted Maneuvers have ~27.3% defense (almost equal to an SR Scrapper without IOs), before any other powers. 8 Defenders have ~42% (almost maxed out).
8 Blasters/Tankers/Brutes/Stalkers with Assault have +84% damage (almost doubling their damage slotting). 8 Defenders have +150% damage (just 55% away from their damage cap assuming 95% damage from slotting)
8 stacked slotted Tactics will net you between ~84% and ~150% tohit, which is enough to max out your chance to hit against anything except the wrong type of Mito in a Hamidon raid.
Let's review:
* Stacked Maneuvers can get you somewhere between an SR Scrapper and a single IO short of capped
* Stacked Assault can get you somewhere between doubling your damage enhancements and two reds short of capped
* Stacked Tactics will cap you against everything but the wrong Hamidon Mito
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
Yea, I'm getting that, but that is so obscure and unintuitive that I don't see how it could prompt a "LOLWUT, Think about it" to say that -Res is not really a mitigation debuff.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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My point is that a well built team with buff/debuff sets and some toughies don't Need all that extra end drain to kick butt.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper
Leadership is the option provided to me to let me pwn harder, regardless of team makeup.
8 Blasters/Scrappers/Tankers/Brutes/Stalkers with slotted Maneuvers have ~27.3% defense (almost equal to an SR Scrapper without IOs), before any other powers. 8 Defenders have ~42% (almost maxed out). 8 Blasters/Tankers/Brutes/Stalkers with Assault have +84% damage (almost doubling their damage slotting). 8 Defenders have +150% damage (just 55% away from their damage cap assuming 95% damage from slotting) 8 stacked slotted Tactics will net you between ~84% and ~150% tohit, which is enough to max out your chance to hit against anything except the wrong type of Mito in a Hamidon raid. Let's review: * Stacked Maneuvers can get you somewhere between an SR Scrapper and a single IO short of capped * Stacked Assault can get you somewhere between doubling your damage enhancements and two reds short of capped * Stacked Tactics will cap you against everything but the wrong Hamidon Mito Pretty sure he's referring to "dead monster does not fight" |
And if he is referring to dead monster does not fight then he's an idiot. Mobs being dead quick is NOT 'mitigation' in the sense that normal people use the word when describing the Effects of Powers.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
Death is the ultimate form of mitigation. It's complete (unlike debuffs), and it's permanent (unlike controls)
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Aye. The original post was referring to what Sarrate mentions. The "lolwut" post, I believe, was referring to what I mentioned.
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Originally Posted by Wavicle
Yea, I'm getting that, but that is so obscure and unintuitive that I don't see how it could prompt a "LOLWUT, Think about it" to say that -Res is not really a mitigation debuff.
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Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
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The point of buffs, debuffs and controls is to provide mitigation against the guys you are killing and haven't killed yet. Duh.|
Originally Posted by Fleeting_Whisper
Death is the ultimate form of mitigation. It's complete (unlike debuffs), and it's permanent (unlike controls)
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I get what you are saying, but to say there is no distinction between +Def/-Res/-Tohit/-Dmg and -Res/-Def/+Dmg/+Tohit as a form of 'mitigation' is really kinda silly I think. It's a semantic argument that distracts from the point.
However, since Res debuffs improve Dmg debuffs, in this case Tar Patch would actually be adding to the -Dmg, which is pretty cool. Thanks, whoever that was, for pointing that out.
Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.
I think the title says it all, Player Skill does matter. Even though some people like to pretend otherwise.
I mean, I play with my bf a lot who is not very good at the game. We could do the same mission with the same character and while I would blitz through easily, he would have a much harder time and possibly even die occasionally.
I've got a MA storyarc called "Peacemoon's All-Star Challenge" - no customs but even then, some people can't get past mission 2, where as others complete it easily