Posi explained at the comic con panel (and to me separately because I asked) that they'd been working on power customization essentially from the moment they had enough staff and money to do so, before Novemeber of 07. They sat down and asked about what things they really wanted to put in the game, and what would it take to get it there. This was the top of the list. They've done that, I16 will probably go live before we know it. 
Base raids and the CoP trial are, while backburnered, still on the list of things they're working on. It's a much more massive problem area for the game, it's not something that could be solved purely by the presence of way more wage slaves - it's something they have to actually *fix*. But, I was also assured that they are working on this too, it's not top priority, but it's there on their schedule.
However: neither of these things has anything to do with the release of CO. They've been on the game's schedule since they were first proposed, and ... well, frankly CO and DC don't HAVE anything to "keep up" with. This game's got something they will never have: Time live. COH has been here for 5 years, going strong, and according to Ocho - going VERY strong indeed. He couldn't tell me numbers but he did indicate that the player base was UP very much past their expectations. With the coming of I16 and Going Rogue on the table for a late year release (or early next year, but I'm gonna guess holiday on an off chance), the competition has got to keep up with THIS game.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Not that I want to spread doubt in the developers, but this is one game company and a (soon to be) rival game company. NCSoft can't show that they're being influenced, or even affected, by a rival company, because that could translate to some as fear.
Even if they are doing something because of a rival, they can't admit it.
Which is why they often don't tell us what they're going to be putting out, until it's almost live. A lot of companies would be able to swipe ideas, and with enough money (blizzard) put them out earlier than the ones who thought of it first.
Myself I'll continue to enjoy Paragon's work, because having met these guys a couple times now, they really, truly enjoy what they're doing. They absolutely want the best product they can make. While I don't doubt that the other companies have some employees with experience, and with knowledge... I don't know that they have the same *passion* about their product.
I mean... Champions... was CoH2, then Marvel, now CO. That's... hardly "product loyalty" right there. That's "we'll take whatever we can get". It's sad.
Every one of Crpytic's employees - save Jack - who had been working exclusively on City of Heroes, when they split, came to work for NC. The whole crew. While they've got new people working now, they're being trained into an environment of dedication and quality. Wherever those people go after their stay with Paragon... their new employer will definitely have someone to value.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Seems like a double edged sword to me. CoH has been my home since June 04, I'm very happy to see things we the player base have been asking for, which is great. But on the side of tech they haven't wowed my in a couple of years. I'm sure the Devs working on CoH really care about their product but I do think they need to step up their game.
On a side note there was never a mention of a CoH2, from the only trailer released of Cryptics MUO it looked nothing like CO at all. CO is what CoH was supposed to be, so i'm sure there is a lot of passion in the product for the people who worked on CoH to finally make the product they had invisioned so many years ago with COH came up.
"while some people would say fish, cow, ambush!"-Ice9
The only trailer for MUO never showed any gameplay, just 3D models, so we really don't know whether it looked anything like Champions or not. But I doubt they'd have just scrapped all they did for MUO and started over.
Besides, some costume pieces we can see in the "Show off your hero" thing on the Champions site are clearly originally from Marvel characters.
A guildie of mine on WoW (yeah yeah, I know, I know) is in the Beta testing and really likes it - travel powers at level 6, and there are about 12 of them. Zone wide PvP for those that are into it, and lots of customizable powers.
Personally, after waiting til level 10+ for travel powers here, and higher than that in World of Walking, I'm interested enough to want to try it if I can.
Two thoughts...
1. Based on publicly available info, I have no desire to try CO.
2. Given that these are CoH forums, and this is a server specific thread, should we even be discussing this topic?
I don't see why we can't discuss it. I'm not advertising for the game, just asking what you all think on the matter. And I post my discussion topics on Protector because I play on this server and know that the people here will give me a coherent stream of thought in line with that of a human instead of one of a lemur (not even sure if they're not intelligent...).
And I do agree that the devs probably were working on this long before CO was even a thought but I also co-sign the idea of it being pushed as a priority due to competition (And I'm classifying anyone putting out a similar product as competition, whether you're a kingdom and they're a village). I understand that we would never really know for sure that this was or was not the case unless we were in the meetings and on the dev team, just my personal thoughts on the matter, like I am similarly asking for your thoughts on the topic of competition as the impetus for improvement.
@.MIDAS
BIG BROTHER MIDAS, Ice/Ice Dominator, 1314 Badges
* Any toon you see with Midas in the name is probably me
*
Competition is good. That may be the only reason that Bill Gates (a founder of Microsoft) invested in Apple to keep it going.
The following statement is a sarcastic observation of mine...
Where else would Micosoft steal new ideas from?
"Goodbye, Jean-Luc. I'm gonna miss you... you had such potential. But then again, all good things must come to an end..." -- Q
Meh. I've seen the trailers and early beta stuff leaked to youtube, and I'll say this: While looking visually stunning (let's be honest, it's a great looking game), it has one major flaw, to me, and that's its developer.
Having played CoH from the beginning, and listening to all the stuff early on they "just couldn't do" for us, CoH has gotten nothing but better since Jack left it. Much of the stuff he said couldn't be done are somehow, without him, now being done; not to mention all the neat new stuff that has been developed and hit since he left.
So CO of course looks great now. It's fresh, and it's new. But what about 3 months? 6? When a few complaints and suggestions start rolling in from the playerbase. I remember the mass exodus of players from I3-I5 (I myself took a hiatus at the end of 5 for over a year) caused by some of his develpment and attitude, and I've seen nothing like that since he's been gone.
So CO looks good now. I might even pick up a copy and drive it around. But don't kid yourselves about what you're getting, and from who.
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Originally Posted by Witchfrost
Meh. I've seen the trailers and early beta stuff leaked to youtube, and I'll say this: While looking visually stunning (let's be honest, it's a great looking game), it has one major flaw, to me, and that's its developer.
Having played CoH from the beginning, and listening to all the stuff early on they "just couldn't do" for us, CoH has gotten nothing but better since Jack left it. Much of the stuff he said couldn't be done are somehow, without him, now being done; not to mention all the neat new stuff that has been developed and hit since he left. So CO of course looks great now. It's fresh, and it's new. But what about 3 months? 6? When a few complaints and suggestions start rolling in from the playerbase. I remember the mass exodus of players from I3-I5 (I myself took a hiatus at the end of 5 for over a year) caused by some of his develpment and attitude, and I've seen nothing like that since he's been gone. So CO looks good now. I might even pick up a copy and drive it around. But don't kid yourselves about what you're getting, and from who. |
THIS! QFT!!! (except, I won't even try CO)
I tend to agree with Witchfrost.
Sure the newness of a classless system and eye-candy is appealing.
But in the end, it's Emmert AND Roper (to whom the term "flagshipped" is glued onto) who are at the head of this and that does nothing but worry me.
Players shouldn't be overly surprised then if 1) once launched, the game will remain very static in terms of mechanics, even if buggy ("it's my game - you just play in it"), and 2) multiple ways of getting your money will be in place through paid expansions / updates, microtransactions and the like.
As far as I know, CoH is still very different from other MMOs in one particular aspect: the devs listen to the players and are just as enthusiastic about adding to it than we are about enjoying their work.
I've never felt Paragon Studios was out there to do a quick "cash in" on a popular genre. Not so with Cryptic at this point.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
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Of course you do; you're an intelligent person and obviously recognize the epic wonder that is my posting ability.|
Originally Posted by Stalemate
I tend to agree with Witchfrost.
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Sure the newness of a classless system and eye-candy is appealing. But in the end, it's Emmert AND Roper (to whom the term "flagshipped" is glued onto) who are at the head of this and that does nothing but worry me. Players shouldn't be overly surprised then if 1) once launched, the game will remain very static in terms of mechanics, even if buggy ("it's my game - you just play in it"), and 2) multiple ways of getting your money will be in place through paid expansions / updates, microtransactions and the like. |
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| I've never felt Paragon Studios was out there to do a quick "cash in" on a popular genre. Not so with Cryptic at this point. |
My interest in Champions is very simple, and it both starts and ends with an "X".
I hate playing computer games, I rigged City of Heroes/Villains to play with a controller, but it's not the same as a system built to function with one.
When the game comes out for the XBox (though, to be honest, I consider it more of an if at this point), as long as the game has remained in decent standing, I'll try it. My allegiance is to gameplay, not any one person or a team.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with it if it ONLY came out for the xbox, actually. It's a shame that they've already gotten way behind on the schedule for console release, after having made that one of their primary selling points.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Yeah no problem here about discussing this nor about discussing it on the protector forums since it's designed for us Prots to talk about it. CO...doubt I'll try it.
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*cough* You mean like Steve Jobs stealing the GUI from Xerox? *cough*
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Originally Posted by Major_T
Competition is good. That may be the only reason that Bill Gates (a founder of Microsoft) invested in Apple to keep it going.
The following statement is a sarcastic observation of mine... Where else would Micosoft steal new ideas from? |
Well the heads over there were talking about how not listening to their playerbase was one of the huge mistakes they made when they were in charge of CoH and that its something a lot of dev teams have struggled with in several MMO's. They claim that that's one thing they've learned from and intend on making a priority this time around but you'll forgive me if I'm not inclined to accept that as truth. I think they're saying what sounds good right now in order to peak as many people's interest as possible because while some people say they like it, the cell shading is not doing it for me. I don't know, maybe it's because I've never played a game with that visual effect to it, but it looks half *** to me :-/ I may try it, but it would have to be after a few recommendations from friends.
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* Any toon you see with Midas in the name is probably me
* Like Spock stealing the cloaking device from the Romulans?
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"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
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Originally Posted by Witchfrost
...I don't know quite what I disagree with from this statement. I've been mulling it over for a couple of minutes trying to figure out what of it I disagreed with, but I'm having trouble putting my finger on it. I don't necessarily think Jack was trying to cash in on the genre- I think he generally loves superheroes. But since I don't really think he cares about anything other than moneymaking in game development (since he obviously couldn't care less what his playerbase thinks, at least using this game as an example), it's hard to use any term other than "cashing in".
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I was referring to Paragon Studios, which Mr. Emmert was never a part of.
He did mention a few times that he was (or had been) a Champions system PnP players, and essentially that was where Statesman (and I believe Nemesis) took form originally. Having 2 masters degrees he's obviously no dummy either. So again I'd have to agree with you on that point.
But if we're looking at who's heading CoX (Paragon Studios spearheaded by Matt Miller) now as compared to who is heading CO (Emmert as Chief Creative Officer and Roper as Executive Producer), no amount of eye candy and apparently new game innovation can remove that doubt in my mind that this game wasn't made to recover investments already made into Marvel Universe Online (cancelled) and less for the love of the genre.
I've seen CO in action now and the mechanics are interesting. There are certain things I still don't understand how players wanting to continue in a SG context could actually do it. Will it be enough to displace CoX as the official superhero MMO? I doubt it. But it still looks great and the system is innovative.
In the end, I think CO will attract those unhappy with CoX right now and be popular as a "backup MMO", or with the younger players looking for a WoW replacement that is more comic-bookish.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
I see your avatar wolfie. If you are primarily using Quick Reply, you have to refresh the bage before you see it for some reason.
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
Q: How do you wreck an Abrams?
A: You crash into another one.
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This will make a few folks angry, but wth.|
Originally Posted by Stalemate
He did mention a few times that he was (or had been) a Champions system PnP players, and essentially that was where Statesman (and I believe Nemesis) took form originally. Having 2 masters degrees he's obviously no dummy either. So again I'd have to agree with you on that point.
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Having two degree's doesn't make you smart, it means that you are willing to spend time and money on a piece of paper. Just about anyone can do it. It's more of a willpower and time sink than anything else. My wife is doing her doctorate right now. Her current professor (and I use the term loosely) has no clue about Elementary School teaching and the methods used. So she is having to write what he wants instead of what is correct. Obviously this person who has a doctorate should not have one, but somehow he muddled through. Education does not make one smart. Experience makes one smart. Education just gives you the tools to get the experience.
My problem with Jack is that he will say anything to get the money rolling. As far as I can tell he has no ethics and very little in the way of morals. Add to that the fact that he is as hard headed as a hammer and you have someone who really just doesn't give a rat's behind about the customers other than to relieve them of their excess cash. I might try it, but it's pretty doubtful.
BTW River, 3.2 patch is out which lowered the mounts to 20. Not that it helps a lot since you still need about 50 gold to get one and I don't know many 20's with that much gold. It's still World of Walking slowly until 20, then it's the World of riding slowly.
Tech Support Rule #1 - They will lie to you. Usually intentionally.
I will give CO a trial - try to find a free 10-day trial account around somewhere. I'm happy with CoH for the most part. I get burned out a bit on the missions and wish there were a few more powersets, but what can you do. My main attraction to CO will be the graphics - I've always loved cell-shading.
CO is an interesting game to say the least. And like many I'm a little iffy on Emmert heading all the projects Cryptic is working on, but theargument that he is just after money is silly. Every game on the market is after money, thats why they were made. If you think the costume booster packs are strickly for your pleasure and not for Paragon Studios to get more money then you really need to think twice.
"while some people would say fish, cow, ambush!"-Ice9
I'm soooo looking forward to this game coming out. Not because I'm going to play it but because the competition will be good for us over here at CoX
I know the devs were working on power customization for a while before the announcement but I think it's fairly rational to say it got pushed out faster because of CO's supposed 'vast customization' options. I'm just eager to see what else the competition comes out with that CoX will be forced to keep up with. Sounds like all WIN for us 
Perhaps, dare I say... base raiding coming back?!?!
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BIG BROTHER MIDAS, Ice/Ice Dominator, 1314 Badges
* Any toon you see with Midas in the name is probably me