Levitate vs Lift

Ever since I've played this game, their has been a damage difference between Lift and Levitate, why? They are identical in every other aspect.

Lift: 24.47 Damage
Levitate: 40.37 Damage

This really needs to be changed, Lift is doing almost half the damage it should be and makes soloing with a Gravity Controller unecessarily more difficult and slow.

Whats more:

Amen! My main strike against this game is the developers seeming inability to right wrongs. They come off as either lazy or incompetent. No offense intended.

These sets were designed before the inherent and epic powers were implemented. That changed a lot, yet the sets have largely remained untouched. Gravity is paying a hefty price for having Lift and Propel. Both which are highly skippable powers considering a pool power like Air Superiority gives significantly better DPS, not to mention epic powers which totally outstrips the DPS of these powers. For these two skippable powers, Gravity is sadled with subpar controls even compared to Fire which ends out outdamaging Gravity like there is no tomorrow. Even though Mind Controls Levitate is superior here, that set should be looked at as well (compare it to Plant Control and see how lacking it really is).

/whine

Lift animates faster than Levitate, but the damage really should be the same (they do the exact same thing after all). Blaster secondary powers Telekinetic Thrust and Power Thrust, for instance, has the same damage and effect - yet one has twice as long animation as the other.

Propel is perhaps the most unique power in the game and really fun. And really fustrating on teams where you more often than not end up hitting a foe already down. When Hurl and Hurl Stone got their animation lowered, I was shocked to find no similar love was given to Propel. Lower animation to 2.5 secs and do it NOW.

These two changes to Gravity Control can and SHOULD be done quickly. Enough is enough! Then at next juncture, look into how to address the reasons why these two sets underperform compared to the likes of Fire, Plant, Stone and Illusion with epic powers and pool powers in mind.

This is one of those "dead horse" topics. It comes up on a regular basis. The Devs have never given a specific reason why Lift has such a lower damage level than Levitate, but I suspect it is a balance issue. Grav does a lot of damage in Propel, and if the damage was increased to Lift, then the Grav set would probably do too much damage in their eyes.

The damage in Propel makes my Grav controller particularly good for solo. I use Crush instead of Lift in my Grav controllers current build. If Lift's damage were increased, I would find something else to drop to fit it in, but since Castle made the adjustment to Dominators and not Controllers, I would bet that this issue was looked at and left as is on purpose.

I'll tell you why Levitate does more than lift: Grav gets an autonomous pet. Mind doesn't (unless you count confusing a horde of minions who can't hit one another once every 4 minutes).

Though it doesn't explain giving the dom version a damage boost =. *shrug*

Actually, Mind is great at tearing down multiple targets. Especially if you take an AoE from your APP of choice. I've solod the entire Cim wall (all 10 spawns of 10 dudes) in only a few minutes.

I've held AVs through the PToD without outside help.

I've had to have my Mind controller TANK missions because the team didn't have a tank that could stand up to psi damage (we also had a fire controller who, surprise, was worthless in taking the foes down fast enough or keeping them from attacking anyone). Yes, that includes the AVs at the end.

Could Mind use some help? Sure. But i'd hardly call it gimped.

Mind is gimped? This is the first I've heard of it.

Mind Control is a set that matures relatively early, and then stagnates a in the late game. When other sets are taking off because of access to their pets, Mind Control is left with... yet another way to prevent incoming damage from a large group of enemies - in a set that already has a plethora of such options available to it.

In my experience, Mind Control is a dominating force, pre 32. After that, it fades into almost complete obscurity. And it has always been this way - Plant Control didn't do this. It's just the nature of the set, I fear.

Ironically, Gravity and Mind Controls seem to be at opposite ends of a spectrum. In the low levels, a Gravity Controller has to leverage his/her Secondary well to be at all effective in teams. Meanwhile, a Mind Controller has to learn to really rely on their secondary as they move into the late game...

Since I play a grav/kin controller, I would have liked to see Lift get a damage boost for controllers too, but the fact is that as a controller primary, Gravity already has good single-target damage. While I understand and largely agree that "good" single-target damage doesn't justify or outweigh Grav's AoE control and damage shortcomings, I'm also aware that the set has never been as sub-par for controllers as it has always been for dominators.

For dominators, Gravity has always been borked. While contained Lift and Propel may be viable sources of direct damage for controllers, in the dominator primary they were completely eclipsed by damage powers from the secondaries.

For controllers, particularly solo controllers, Gravity's early access to damaging attacks helps the set to solo well. But Lift and Propel were almost entirely superfluous to a dominator with an entire secondary of superior damage powers.

Therefore dominator Lift was buffed. Now it provides viable direct damage, a bit of soft control, and an alternative damage type to what's offered in the dominator secondaries. In other words, it's as good as Levitate.

But among controllers, Gravity already had more ST damage prior to pets and APPs than any other set besides Mind, so the devs didn't give Lift a damage buff.

Frankly I'd be happy to see controller Gravity buffed in any way; the set needs it, I think. But controller Lift didn't need adjusting the way that dominator Lift did.

The tradeoff of AoE control for ST damage may be a bum deal, but it's especially stupid if the damage you gain is utterly irrelevant and superfluous in light of what you already have. And that was the tradeoff for dominator Grav. And that's why the set got a buff for doms that didn't carry over to controllers.

You know I am not even going to touch this Mind Control debate that has risen in this thread by certain individuals. If you want to shout about how Mind sucks be my guest, it is completely false and just absurd.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos_String Since I play a grav/kin controller, I would have liked to see Lift get a damage boost for controllers too, but the fact is that as a controller primary, Gravity already has good single-target damage. While I understand and largely agree that "good" single-target damage doesn't justify or outweigh Grav's AoE control and damage shortcomings, I'm also aware that the set has never been as sub-par for controllers as it has always been for dominators. For dominators, Gravity has always been borked. While contained Lift and Propel may be viable sources of direct damage for controllers, in the dominator primary they were completely eclipsed by damage powers from the secondaries. For controllers, particularly solo controllers, Gravity's early access to damaging attacks helps the set to solo well. But Lift and Propel were almost entirely superfluous to a dominator with an entire secondary of superior damage powers. Therefore dominator Lift was buffed. Now it provides viable direct damage, a bit of soft control, and an alternative damage type to what's offered in the dominator secondaries. In other words, it's as good as Levitate. But among controllers, Gravity already had more ST damage prior to pets and APPs than any other set besides Mind, so the devs didn't give Lift a damage buff. Frankly I'd be happy to see controller Gravity buffed in any way; the set needs it, I think. But controller Lift didn't need adjusting the way that dominator Lift did. The tradeoff of AoE control for ST damage may be a bum deal, but it's especially stupid if the damage you gain is utterly irrelevant and superfluous in light of what you already have. And that was the tradeoff for dominator Grav. And that's why the set got a buff for doms that didn't carry over to controllers.

I know what you are saying Chaos_String and in some ways I can agree with you.

However to me, Gravity has 4 single target attacks, Crush, Lift, Gravity Distortion and Propel that should all do good damage.

Punishing Gravity powers so you get "less bang for your buck" because of its quantity of single target attacks is wrong. The reason I say this is because in my mind, Gravity gives up other powers to have access to them, so they should be each be individually good.

If gravity didn't have lift and propel, imagine what could take its place? Powers like quicksand or shiver? Room for more early AoE control at least. I'm not saying Lift or Propel should be removed, but their existance needs to be justified. Lift should do equal damage to Levitate, irregardless of its other attacks. Currently is does almost half of levitate and less than even air superiority.

I'm getting real tired of this plant>mind stuff.

Mind can do things plant controllers only dream of.

Namely enemy placement, and total control.

Telekinesis makes enemies go where you want them to, even my defenders take it! This power is golden, not as a hold (which it is great for too, if you have a corner) but as a positional godsend. I can put enemies in to Freezing Rain slick, in a to glue arrow, into a burn patch, Oil slick burn patch. You name it. Can a plant troller do that?

Comparing SoC to MC is ridiculous. They don't come in to a controller's build even CLOSE to the same time. SoC is more appropriately compared to something like Mass hypnosis or Telekinesis for mind, and Flashfire etc for the other sets. (Ice Slick, Dimension Shift, Stalagmites...not really Group Invis). Mind has a tool for every situation. Plant has one tool for every situation...and if you find yourself facing Nemisis? Plant is beyond broken.

A Mind VS Plant debate.


How unexpected.

It's like a glue factory in here, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway.

If legacy and fear of overpowered solo grav's are the only thing holding back the damage on lift, well... that's just a sad state of affairs. Grav hurts in so many departments, please throw it a bone somewhere.

In the matter of Mind v. Plant, I find the fact that mind's control are psionic give it an advantage a lot of folks overlook. Granted, I'll curse carnies to hell and back, but it's fun to shred through Romans. (You can't hide your thoughts behind your puny shield!)