Remove MA buildings from Atlas, Galaxy and Mercy

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The AE buildings are in the starter zone because the philosphy behind the MA was to create an alternative way of leveling from 1-50.

So the suggestion should actually be: "change the philosophy behind MA, and don't expect players to be able to level from 1-50 without playing game content outside the MA".

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Not really.
If they want to level from 1-50 in MA, and really want it that way, its only a yellow line trip to Kings Row. Not that hard, is it?

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It would still mean you wouldn't be able to level from 1-50 entierly within the MA, since you would also have to take a train journey and zone.

And for villains, the journey from Fort Darwin to Port Oakes MA is actually quite difficult and dangrous at level 1.


I'm not saying that the buildings shouldn't be removed though, just that the policy should be changed.

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And since when did you start by spawning in the MA building?
This is exactly my point, however. You still CAN level from 1-50 with just the MA. If people cant be even bothered to travel one zone, they wont.
If people dont have them in the starting zones, only the people that want to use them that bad will go to one. The rest will play the game the normal way.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

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Yet then people moan that there are no teams... merge the servers!

TBH I think that if you hate broadcast being filled up with people playing the game you should just switch it off.

But while I disagree on reasons for the change I support the change to remove the too easy access to people who don't know what is going on yet from PL teams. I'd also support a minimum entry level to MA even though I use it to PL my alts from 1 upwards. (I have been around a while and do know mostly what I'm doing ).

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I don't mind the broadcast. I find it mildly annoying, and sad, but I just go on my spree until lvl 5, then run the Hollows missions.

But my point was the horrible effect this is having on new players. (E.g. You agree with me )The broadcast is all they will see in Atlas. LFFT, LFM, LFEmpath, No tankers, etc. There are lvl 50s walking around that have been made in one week, and have no idea how to play. As far as Im aware, thats a pretty bad thing.

Yeah, sure, you can argue that 'People pay to play how they want, [censored], so shuddup.' But, in the long term, thats not going to work out. As it will be bad for the game, and thus bad for the players. Bad for Us.

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Or remove MA from Atlas, GC... etc as you suggest and have broadcast devoid of pretty much everything but occasion costume comps and the occasional DJ spamming broadcast to listen to whichever radio is currently in vogue.

I do agree with you on removal, just not the reasoning.

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Ninja, did you ever stand in Atlas before I14?
It DID have broadcast. Yes, there were costume comps, and the odd DJ, and random shout fights. But it was a healthy sort of broadcast. It wasnt spamming LFF.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

/signed, finally a good idea

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Yet then people moan that there are no teams... merge the servers!

TBH I think that if you hate broadcast being filled up with people playing the game you should just switch it off.

But while I disagree on reasons for the change I support the change to remove the too easy access to people who don't know what is going on yet from PL teams. I'd also support a minimum entry level to MA even though I use it to PL my alts from 1 upwards. (I have been around a while and do know mostly what I'm doing ).

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I don't mind the broadcast. I find it mildly annoying, and sad, but I just go on my spree until lvl 5, then run the Hollows missions.

But my point was the horrible effect this is having on new players. (E.g. You agree with me )The broadcast is all they will see in Atlas. LFFT, LFM, LFEmpath, No tankers, etc. There are lvl 50s walking around that have been made in one week, and have no idea how to play. As far as Im aware, thats a pretty bad thing.

Yeah, sure, you can argue that 'People pay to play how they want, [censored], so shuddup.' But, in the long term, thats not going to work out. As it will be bad for the game, and thus bad for the players. Bad for Us.

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Or remove MA from Atlas, GC... etc as you suggest and have broadcast devoid of pretty much everything but occasion costume comps and the occasional DJ spamming broadcast to listen to whichever radio is currently in vogue.

I do agree with you on removal, just not the reasoning.

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Ninja, did you ever stand in Atlas before I14?
It DID have broadcast. Yes, there were costume comps, and the odd DJ, and random shout fights. But it was a healthy sort of broadcast. It wasnt spamming LFF.

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Been in Atlas on and off since EU release. And IMO the amount, not quality for sure, but amount of chat there now is definitely superior to what was there pre i13 (I wasn't in game much between 13 and 14).

I agree on both arguments for reasoning:

Farming noobs: I made a team the other day and after filling with two tanks one level 1 the other level 40ish we started the map. Half way through the level 1 tank (who was tanking the entire mob at this point) shouts what the hell is he (the 40 tank) doing? *looks over* hes standing behind us all. he says im jumping out... wait what? "i'm only 40" ... o.O at this point i noticed he bearly spent any time "tanking" and was a new player who hadnt a clue.

BC spam: Completly agree there, it could b the end of most new players gaming life here. But it cant b the sole argument for this, as a channel is there for it and another is coming...

AND ...as for moving it out of atlas and GC is changing the philosophy of MA? bullcrap as this "having to go from starter zone to another" is already used in villains. and those new players that wish to play the new content can, thos ethat want to farm in MA go to cap...

Its difficult if your a newb and dont knw what your doing or how to get there... essentially it acts as a stupidity test to see if your experienced enough to use MA. THe point being? you CAN still use ma 1-50 but you have to know how to get there and what your doing first... which means no noobs or newbs and no starter zone spam.. win/win.

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Since when does taking a train level you up? You can go straight from the starting point to the station/to King's Row and run towards the MA without getting a single xp point.

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The point is, you have to do something in the game world before you can level up. If you are a villain that something would probably involve repeated trips back to the hospital or a very long swim all the way around the coast of Mercy Island.

And they point is, only an experienced player would know where to go, and Positron's intention was that a new player would be able to level entirely using MA; not an experienced one who already knew thier way around.

So to remove the MA buildings from the starter zones would require a fundemental change of policy.

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The point is, you have to do something in the game world before you can level up. If you are a villain that something would probably involve repeated trips back to the hospital or a very long swim all the way around the coast of Mercy Island.

And they point is, only an experienced player would know where to go, and Positron's intention was that a new player would be able to level entirely using MA; not an experienced one who already knew thier way around.

So to remove the MA buildings from the starter zones would require a fundemental change of policy.

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/Remembers his very first day in CoH... I didn't know about trains.I wanted to get to Galaxy City from Atlas. Being level 3... Well, mind you I got as far as Independence port, after dozens of faceplants. Then I understood I was doing something wrong.

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Since when does taking a train level you up? You can go straight from the starting point to the station/to King's Row and run towards the MA without getting a single xp point.

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The point is, you have to do something in the game world before you can level up. If you are a villain that something would probably involve repeated trips back to the hospital or a very long swim all the way around the coast of Mercy Island.

And they point is, only an experienced player would know where to go, and Positron's intention was that a new player would be able to level entirely using MA; not an experienced one who already knew thier way around.

So to remove the MA buildings from the starter zones would require a fundemental change of policy.

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Im pretty sure thats not going to be 'omfgEndofTehWorldlololroflcopter!!11' or anything that horribly drastic.

But if the Devs are serious about cutting down on farming, or in fact saving the starting levels on Blueside, then it would *probably* be a good idea. After all, they changed policy on the 90 odd badges in MA.

Anyway, if a little walk kills people, they should probably be playing a different game. Like, Iunno, Tetris

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

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Since when does taking a train level you up? You can go straight from the starting point to the station/to King's Row and run towards the MA without getting a single xp point.

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The point is, you have to do something in the game world before you can level up. If you are a villain that something would probably involve repeated trips back to the hospital or a very long swim all the way around the coast of Mercy Island.

And they point is, only an experienced player would know where to go, and Positron's intention was that a new player would be able to level entirely using MA; not an experienced one who already knew thier way around.

So to remove the MA buildings from the starter zones would require a fundemental change of policy.

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Im pretty sure thats not going to be 'omfgEndofTehWorldlololroflcopter!!11' or anything that horribly drastic.

But if the Devs are serious about cutting down on farming, or in fact saving the starting levels on Blueside, then it would *probably* be a good idea. After all, they changed policy on the 90 odd badges in MA.

Anyway, if a little walk kills people, they should probably be playing a different game. Like, Iunno, Tetris

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Can't PL in Tetris though and those higher lvls do get pretty tricky

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Since when does taking a train level you up? You can go straight from the starting point to the station/to King's Row and run towards the MA without getting a single xp point.

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The point is, you have to do something in the game world before you can level up. If you are a villain that something would probably involve repeated trips back to the hospital or a very long swim all the way around the coast of Mercy Island.

And they point is, only an experienced player would know where to go, and Positron's intention was that a new player would be able to level entirely using MA; not an experienced one who already knew thier way around.

So to remove the MA buildings from the starter zones would require a fundemental change of policy.

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Posi has already demonstrated that he will tweak MA, this wouldn't exactly be without precedent.

The AE buildings do need to be removed from the starter zones, and maybe a small limit put on entry to them would help as well, such as level 8, 10 or 12.

There is a big difference between Tweaking the MA, and placing obsticles between starting characters and the MA.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, just pointing out that in political terms it would be a policy U-Turn.


And there is also the "Devs hate villains" aspect: it is much easier to get to Kings Row than Port Oakes at level 1.

What about a teleport clickie in the starting zones, that would take you to the MA buildings in the "second level" zones?
That way, level 1s could get there with no problems, but they'd need to find out about it first from a contact in the starting zone.

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There is a big difference between Tweaking the MA, and placing obsticles between starting characters and the MA.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, just pointing out that in political terms it would be a policy U-Turn.


And there is also the "Devs hate villains" aspect: it is much easier to get to Kings Row than Port Oakes at level 1.

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Seeing as Villains doesnt seem to get farmed as much as Heroes anyway (Theres nothing as bad as the situ in Atlas atm), and the fact that the MA building is in Upper Mercy anyway, that shouldnt be so much a problem.
E.g. Mercy always has been the same sort of level range as Atlas/Galaxy + Kings Row, since the very start. Its just the different play styles.

If it's only a problem in Heroes, then make the change there. It's either that, or we have the new generation of players that dont know what the ATs do, know none of the lore, cant team outside a farm and expect hand-feeding. Which is good for no one.

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Thinking about the situation. I'm guessing that the reason Cap is used villain side is thats where the low level AH is. So maybe removing the AH from Atlas would mean more farming types would decamp to KR or Talos. Which would in part fix the chat issue without removing the MA building entirely. Though personally I'd still hold out for complete removal from sub 20 zones. And add one into Pocket D.

Plus you could move the AH to somewhere useful like PI.

That would depend on if they're farming XP or loot.

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What about a teleport clickie in the starting zones, that would take you to the MA buildings in the "second level" zones?
That way, level 1s could get there with no problems, but they'd need to find out about it first from a contact in the starting zone.

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That would be a good idea, it means they don't start farming from lvl 1 and it gets rid of the LFF spams on Broadcast

My ONLY problem with farming is that it is now impossible to get a normal low level team. All the normal teams are lvl 50s doing tfs and laughing at the farmers.

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My ONLY problem with farming is that it is now impossible to get a normal low level team. All the normal teams are lvl 50s doing tfs and laughing at the farmers.

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Exactly. And that is what new players will be thinking. 'Wheres all the teams gone?'

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Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

Thing is in mercy the MA building is a stones throe from a black market and there a level up person just round the corner so the conditions are pretty much the same as atlas yet there is no real farming in mercy so i don't think its just the fact that atlas has both a auction house and MA building.

Also removing the auction house from atlas would be bad for new players as well as veterans as you can only j]hold a small amount of recipes and salvage at the low levels having the AH in atlas allows you sell stuff with ease.

Personally, I would favor: locked out of the MA until you have at least 1 level 20.

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Personally, I would favor: locked out of the MA until you have at least 1 level 20.

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But then that would temporarily restrict one of the newest selling points for this game? Isn't the point of the Architect Edition (Correct me if I'm wrong) to highlight that the game has a mission creator? Now, someone goes to buy that and finds out they can't use it they have a level 20.
Personally I think we should be allowed to create and test arcs without level restrictions but shouldn't be allowed to play arcs until after completing an arc from a contact (The Studio Instructor could be used for this and could give the tutorial after the arc)
This way people can contribute content to the community but they would only have to do a short arc to unlock the playable function of the MA whilst enjoying the normal content.

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Personally, I would favor: locked out of the MA until you have at least 1 level 20.

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But then that would temporarily restrict one of the newest selling points for this game? Isn't the point of the Architect Edition (Correct me if I'm wrong) to highlight that the game has a mission creator? Now, someone goes to buy that and finds out they can't use it they have a level 20.
Personally I think we should be allowed to create and test arcs without level restrictions but shouldn't be allowed to play arcs until after completing an arc from a contact (The Studio Instructor could be used for this and could give the tutorial after the arc)
This way people can contribute content to the community but they would only have to do a short arc to unlock the playable function of the MA whilst enjoying the normal content.

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How does this solve the issue of farming and farm-raised players?
Praf's idea (god help me for saying this ) actually has some merit. Lock the MA until a player has a lvl 20 character. That way they can't be MA farmed to lvl 20, and will have to play some standard content, against standard enemies.

The main issues atm are (In no order);
MA filled with junky farm mission
MA spam in Atlas being bad for new players
MA farming in Atlas etc creating 'Farmed' new players
New Players having no idea of how the rest of the game/ATs work

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

I've played a few MMOs by now, and what I've learned is that there are always players (and I use the term loosely) who don't know how their class works. I've actually heard someone in another game advise a new player not to choose the healer class because "the healer class is [censored]. Whenever I team with a healer on my tank, the healer always dies real quick."

MA farming is a very high-profile road to not knowing how to play, yes, but let's not pretend that restricting MA is going to suddenly make clueless noobs disappear.

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I've played a few MMOs by now, and what I've learned is that there are always players (and I use the term loosely) who don't know how their class works. I've actually heard someone in another game advise a new player not to choose the healer class because "the healer class is [censored]. Whenever I team with a healer on my tank, the healer always dies real quick."

MA farming is a very high-profile road to not knowing how to play, yes, but let's not pretend that restricting MA is going to suddenly make clueless noobs disappear.

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Naturally. Ages ago, before we even heard of MA, I teamed with an invul tanker who had all the attacks and only resist physical damage and inviciblity. This was mid 20's

However, as you said, MA does massively up the likelihood of players that have no idea how the ATs work. That, and it results in none of the rest of the game content getting played. Which im pretty sure the Devs dont want, seeing as they keep adding more of it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zwillinger GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain_Photon NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.

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I've played a few MMOs by now, and what I've learned is that there are always players (and I use the term loosely) who don't know how their class works. I've actually heard someone in another game advise a new player not to choose the healer class because "the healer class is [censored]. Whenever I team with a healer on my tank, the healer always dies real quick."

MA farming is a very high-profile road to not knowing how to play, yes, but let's not pretend that restricting MA is going to suddenly make clueless noobs disappear.

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Naturally. Ages ago, before we even heard of MA, I teamed with an invul tanker who had all the attacks and only resist physical damage and inviciblity. This was mid 20's

However, as you said, MA does massively up the likelihood of players that have no idea how the ATs work. That, and it results in none of the rest of the game content getting played. Which im pretty sure the Devs dont want, seeing as they keep adding more of it

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Played with a 30+ month veteran level 50 tank the other night who had no status protection, Invulnerability Tank at that... I really should have asked why.