PVP - problems solutions and good changes
By
Charnell,
Posted on: 2009-01-19 01:32 in Everything about PvP
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Cause 7`range is as good as 60`.......
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That's more than enough.... Any further and it won't exactly be melee will it....
As Gamete said though, minus range from taunt, Pain Domination and villain epic revamp was all that was needed to balance and fix i12 PvP.
Everything else was an excuse to sack employees because of the loss of subs they new they'd lose.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
lol so basically you want a melee toon to not be "melee" you'd rather then fire a KO blow from 20 ft away. Sounds that way to me..
Heres my quick guide to play a melee toon;
Choose your target, press F or whichever key you have binded for follow. Now press your melee attack and jump when you are near the target. [censored] YOU JUST HIT A BUNNYHOPPER!
Don't really see the point to post any further so have fun 
Gamete..
Well thats basically what they made sharkers.. sry stalkers.
Huh, im not gonna get into a big discussion here but i like the changes. A lot. I hardly ever PvP'd pre i13, and i hardly ever PvP now. But when i do it now i enjoy it more, less extreme. I still die, i still get owned by some but it feels like i got a chance and its more fun. Its no longer a blaster sees me and Aim, Bu, two (or one) shots me. And i like the healing supression.
I dont know all the changes and i might not like them all, if i knew them, but for the first time since i started playing CoX im seriously considering PvP on a regular basis. So i like them.
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Huh, im not gonna get into a big discussion here but i like the changes. A lot. I hardly ever PvP'd pre i13, and i hardly ever PvP now. But when i do it now i enjoy it more, less extreme. I still die, i still get owned by some but it feels like i got a chance and its more fun. Its no longer a blaster sees me and Aim, Bu, two (or one) shots me. And i like the healing supression.
I dont know all the changes and i might not like them all, if i knew them, but for the first time since i started playing CoX im seriously considering PvP on a regular basis. So i like them.
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Well I appreciate that in some instances it can feel that you are more survivable in i13. But by your own admission you had little experience of i12 pvp. Well I imagine one of the reasons you felt it is now less extreme is that the zones are less populated and a lot of the regular pvp'ers have left the game or stopped pvp'ing.
I dont want to slap you with my experience but I did pvp quite regular pre i13 and have started to again post i13 and imo it can be a lot harsher. The really nasty builds have started to proliferate such as widows and sharks and super strength. Stalkers can hit you for 700+ damage from range with the horrible shark attack. Widows and forts can pour out a lot of uncommonly resisted damage, eclipsing even stalkers damage output. And super strength partnered with a defence set makes a very powerful character.
On top of the other players there are the npc's which in RV are almost EB like with their old school mezzes.
I have never argued that i12 pvp didnt have some problems. And like you say blasters could feel very powerful and perma dominators that I must admit i hated. But there were counters to practically every problem in i12 due to teaming just like the pve game.
You may like i13 pvp from your limited experience of it but the obvious truth is that it has been a dismal and unpopular failure. Evidenced by the devs complete public blackout since release and a us community dev losing his job.
There were good ideas put into i13 with the best intentions by the devs but it seems they were too insistent on unpopular ideas and continued to ignore the experienced pvp player base throughout closed beta to live.
Sorry for ripping into your opinions but I have my own too.
And ultimately there is still fun to be had in i13 pvp. Its always good to see new faces coming into the zones . I am in RV a lot and hope to see you there :P
(QR)
After reading through most of the posts in the thread, I have a few comments as well as a couple of questions.
Regarding Fortunatas and Widows, some have posted that they effectively have no equal. I do not quite agree with that - it takes a specialized build but it is very possible to take them out. Against a single one, I've so far scored either a win or a draw. If they have Aid Self, it's usually the latter. If I fight two, I usually lose.
The primary reason to that is the combination of Rage, Focused Accuracy and some global Accuracy bonuses. And Laser Beam Eyes (LBE) does help to an extent. If they are in Elude, I'm usually at 25-30% net chance to hit though it can go up noticeably if LBE hits first. Outside of Elude, 50-60% net to hit is a common level.
I would agree that they are powerful though - their prevalence in the zones certainly imply that. I nonetheless suspect that if/when PvP builds start focus on having both high ToHit and high Accuracy, defense characters such as Widows and Fortunatas will feel less powerful.
Regarding Superstrength, I'm curious as to why people consider it overpowered. Again, the prevalence of the set in the zones certainly imply that it is, but I'm curious as to why? Is it:
- The large, more or less permanent, ToHit bonus from Rage?
- access to a hard-hitting ranged attack in Hurl, that also grounds fliers?
- that the damage is considered too high, once Rage is factored in?
Personally I would say it's mainly the large ToHit bonus from Rage that is responsible, but as I wrote above I'm curious about what the common perception is.
Regarding the mobs in the PvP zones, I agree with most of the comments posted so far: the mobs are now extremely dangerous compared with the threat they pose in standard PvE play, and that a large part of that is due to the mezzes. Interestingly high defense characters will cope better with the mezzes since they do not hit as often, which I suspect contributes to the perception that defense is overpowered.
I suspect the dangerous mobs in PvP zones were an unintended side effect however, given that the PvP changes were aimed at Arena PvP. Hopefully they will be changed once they go over zone PvP.
Im sure they have recently changed the mobs so they are no longer godlike in pvp.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
I'm afraid I don't quite follow your comment Max?
Unless I imagined it I thought they had been nerfed back to what they should be e.g. only takes one hold application to mez a Minion/Lieutenant.
I did have a look for some patch notes but can't find any but I am sure that I am right.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
No they still mez for 10s.
As of last night anyway.
Not too sure, will test tonight.
I know it was late last night the pvp fight we were having but I was holding them longbow mobs with no issues unlike in the past (admittedly most of the time I had domination up but was still the case when I didn't) ...
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
Just tried on my regen scrapper and got held for at least 6 seconds. Way more than a dominator can hit me with.
Hm charnell you say forts and widows are op, but at the same time you say you have no probs with your BS/regen against 3 players as long as they are no widows or forts.
No problem against 3 players while able to deal damg sounds op to me too.
How come you dont think your op and just the widows or forts are because they can kill you ?
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Hm charnell you say forts and widows are op, but at the same time you say you have no probs with your BS/regen against 3 players as long as they are no widows or forts.
No problem against 3 players while able to deal damg sounds op to me too.
How come you dont think your op and just the widows or forts are because they can kill you ?
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Hm Moghedien you say lots of stupid things and argue so hard for the sake of arguing that you basically start arguing with yourself.
Hilarious but should be nerfed. 
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Hm charnell you say forts and widows are op, but at the same time you say you have no probs with your BS/regen against 3 players as long as they are no widows or forts.
No problem against 3 players while able to deal damg sounds op to me too.
How come you dont think your op and just the widows or forts are because they can kill you ?
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Hm Moghedien you say lots of stupid things and argue so hard for the sake of arguing that you basically start arguing with yourself.
Hilarious but should be nerfed.
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Would you be so kind to point out where i was wrong with my comment instead of just trolling ?:-)
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Hm charnell you say forts and widows are op, but at the same time you say you have no probs with your BS/regen against 3 players as long as they are no widows or forts.
No problem against 3 players while able to deal damg sounds op to me too.
How come you dont think your op and just the widows or forts are because they can kill you ?
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Hm Moghedien you say lots of stupid things and argue so hard for the sake of arguing that you basically start arguing with yourself.
Hilarious but should be nerfed.
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Would you be so kind to point out where i was wrong with my comment instead of just trolling ?:-)
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Yup you done caught me out. Well done. Im glad you cleared it all up.
So thats it. Conclusive proof that widows/forts are not op. Further, due to some excellent diligence we have discovered that regens are op!!!!
And all it took was one man with a mission to fit the facts to his theory!!
TOP MARKS!!
NEWSFLASH- Ignore previous statement. Was based on the false assumption that a scrapper wasnt supposed to have high survivability second only to tankers. And widows/forts obv.
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NEWSFLASH- Ignore previous statement. Was based on the false assumption that a scrapper wasnt supposed to have high survivability second only to tankers. And widows/forts obv.
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In PvE your right, but you might have noticed that we talk about PvP, and the devs seem to think there shouldnt be any "more survivable" classes in PvP anymore thats why they added resists to all "squishies".
Btw masterminds are supposed to be the villain side "tankers" in PvE, you think they are survivable in PvP just because of their role in PvE ?
Pls explain to me why scrappers are supposed to be the most survivable class after tanks in PvP.
You want an AT to be more survivable than other ATs in PvP while dealing the same damg as the "squishier" ATs ?
In every MMRPG PvP i played chars trade survivability for either more damg or debuffs, crowd control, healing, this is no longer true for CoX PvP therefore there arent any "more survivable" Ats anymore.
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Hm charnell you say forts and widows are op, but at the same time you say you have no probs with your BS/regen against 3 players as long as they are no widows or forts.
No problem against 3 players while able to deal damg sounds op to me too.
How come you dont think your op and just the widows or forts are because they can kill you ?
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When did Charnell say she/he wasn't over powered?
And this...
You want an AT to be more survivable than other ATs in PvP while dealing the same damg as the "squishier" ATs ?
You just go on and on making brainless assumptions about other peoples posts. JUST READ WHAT IS THERE AND NOTHING MORE!
"It is better not to speak and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain
@Sweet Chilli
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When did Charnell say she/he wasn't over powered?
And this...
You want an AT to be more survivable than other ATs in PvP while dealing the same damg as the "squishier" ATs ?
You just go on and on making brainless assumptions about other peoples posts. JUST READ WHAT IS THERE AND NOTHING MORE!
"It is better not to speak and be thought a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain
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Even if Charnell thinks he is op, he never mentioned it, only saying the others are op......nerf others but leave my set alone as usual.
He says scrappers are supposed to be more survivable than other ATs apart from tanks, go read his post again before posting.
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Even if Charnell thinks he is op, he never mentioned it, only saying the others are op......nerf others but leave my set alone as usual.
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Your fixating again, remember thats bad for you....fixating = bad, must not fixate!
Its every single thread now, you seeing this over powered problem, and other people knowing / covering it up..... fixating again....
NOW, watch the torch as it slowly moves....when you wake up, you wont keep on fixating....3.... 2.... 1....NO MORE FIXATING!
I just have enough of ppl saying other chars are overpowered in pvp, when at the same time they say they can take on 3 players at once with their toons and think thats ok.
If i want other sets nerfed cause i see them overpowered and my char does just fine vs 3 players i at least admit that my char is op too.
Thats what i mean its always the others that are op not the own char.
But it has been like that in all games all times so i shouldnt wonder.
How often do you see players saying the sets they play the most are op ? Very rarely
How often do you see players crying for nerfs of other classes they dont play ? Very often.
/me hands out the cookies and milk ... this is a strange as i13 pvp is
Is not going to remain VIP after Jan 14th 2012, but may remain an active Premium account holder.
See some of you guys/gals in other/new MMOs Soon(tm)
N.B. If you are going to do smt, please do it or GTFO and STFU nab
Post deleted by GhostRaptor
@Sweet Chilli
Of course because meele range got a buff bunnyhopping isnt a good way to avoid meele attacks .....
Cause 7`range is as good as 60`.......