PVP - problems solutions and good changes

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And imo forts are way worse now than fire/em ever was. At least you could hit a fire/em.

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Agreed, Forts are ridiculously good now, (they were already amazing but now they are even better) i play one myself and in most situations it beats anything 1v1.

Now when forts and Night widows team up, theres just no point in even trying to kill them. Even a small team of 3-4 forts cause alot of devastation, your average 'zonies' won't be able to take them out.

Something needs to be done about this really...

Gamete..

I play a purpled ou nightwidow, and even in elude blasters have no problem hitting me if the have ac boni...
add in aim and buildup and they hit almost every time during that period... cosindering nw got no resists they kill you pretty easy in that short time with those 2 buildups running.

Fort have lower defenses than Nw and no elude and no perma mind link....
A bubbler can get much higher def perma than forts can get in PvP.
Blaster with frozen armor get almost as high defenses against certain attacks with other defensive powers in ADDITION to brute lvl resists while forts have no resists at all.

I dont understand why defensive sets get no resists in PvP while classes with def epic/patron shields get crazy high resists ON TOP of the defense the epic shield gives.

Imo its a bit stupid to give toons (blasters) whos primary AND secondary sets are almost pure dmg, as much resists as toons with a WHOLE sets dedicated to defense or resists.

That means they practically get a THIRD powerset they dont need to waste slots or powers on FOR FREE.
Thats like giving brutes, scrappers, tanks and stalkers 4 FREE ranged attacks with good damg they dont need to slot

Btw i have to put a stop to the rumor, several veats are very strong in PvP cause their buffs stack......
Its NOT true, another mindlink gives about 4% more def, the leadership around 2% since DR negate almost 90% of the buffs.

So no, several veats dont benefit much from their teambuffs, at least not more than any defnsive set would from a bubbler or cold corr, or storm char.

Well .. for starters, purpling out a toon for PVP now is pointless due to DR.

Secondly, a team of 4+ forts, regardless of buff stackage will wipe the floor with any other same-seized team of equally skilled "non-forts".

Blasters aren't even close any more, and if you've beaten a lot of forts with a blaster, they weren't played very well.

My fire/* and elec/nrg ( yes, that's elec/nrg, it *did* rock ) can't hold a candle to a well played fort 1v1 now.

Only thing close to a fort blue side is ice/ss .. or, as I understand it, possibly sonic/em now due to -RES ( haven't played one )

Fahie

Buildup+ Aim + set boni is more than enough to hit any fort with all attacks during those 10 secs.

Considering they got no resists and no godmode it isnt hard to kill them in those 10 secs.

If it isnt enough to kill her ... hibernate wait for aim recharge.. and do it again....

lol stop being a nub.


Power Boost + Build Up + Aim + tactics + kismet only gives 105% to-hit now thanks to DR. No where near enough to hit a well played Fortuna with all attacks for those 10 seconds.

While your working your way through your attack chain your still getting held and knocked down which lowers your 10 second window by at least half. Most Fortuna's have either phase and/or aid self which makes things even more "fun"

If you've easily been killed on your fortuna by blasters then play better tbh.

rent beat me to it

Seriously, play a good fort ( not me ) and see what the difference is. Their godmode is that they are Forts.

Fahie

yeh i agree with Rent here, if you getting hit in elude on a nightwidow then i think you need to actually slot defense in it and take the defensive powers from night widow training or whatever its called because the nightwidows i've faught i haven't been able to hit once with a blaster once elude is up.

Gamete..

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lol stop being a nub.


Power Boost + Build Up + Aim + tactics + kismet only gives 105% to-hit now thanks to DR. No where near enough to hit a well played Fortuna with all attacks for those 10 seconds.

While your working your way through your attack chain your still getting held and knocked down which lowers your 10 second window by at least half. Most Fortuna's have either phase and/or aid self which makes things even more "fun"

If you've easily been killed on your fortuna by blasters then play better tbh.

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Forts are good in PvP vs squishies yeah, but so are blasters.

Ppl try to make other believe blasters suck in pvp now wich isnt the case at all.

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yeh i agree with Rent here, if you getting hit in elude on a nightwidow then i think you need to actually slot defense in it and take the defensive powers from night widow training or whatever its called because the nightwidows i've faught i haven't been able to hit once with a blaster once elude is up.

Gamete..

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Try with buildup and aim ?
Other blasters doesnt seem to have much trouble hitting through 60% def.

Prolly ppl should actually PLAY a nw or fort AND a blaster to compare them, not just assume things.

I got both :-)

Btw rent, i saw you killing nw and forts pretty often, still saying they are op and its the players that are noobs in pvp cause you beat them, without having even played one EVER is noob tbh.

SS can hit Forts just fine and buildup + aim gives more tohit than rage...........

Well its funny you say that because my ice/ss tank hits forts and widows alot more often than my blaster does. Sure a blaster can hit a fort with Bu+aim and even a NW but a blaster won't hit a NW once elude is up.

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Well its funny you say that because my ice/ss tank hits forts and widows alot more often than my blaster does. Sure a blaster can hit a fort with Bu+aim and even a NW but a blaster won't hit a NW once elude is up.

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Funny i see good and well build blasters hit throuh elude pretty yoften.

Ok, lets put this in perspective.

Myself, and a good SG friend used to PVP a lot. Pre I13 I could wipe the floor with them with my ill/rad most of the time, do well with my spines/sr ( my two *specced* pvp toons ) and either win or lose with the blasters and other ancillaries.

Since I13, *nothing* can touch the fort. Best I got was 3-5 with the scrapper.

I'm not a pvp newbie ( nor the best in the world ) .. but I know enough that when I am getting my [censored] handed to me on a consistent basis regardless of my AT then it's overpowered. Certainly baring in mind that we are of roughly equal skill.

And yes .. doh .. I do have aim and build up.

Read the threads, acknowledge the godness of forts in I13, relax and take a deep breath

Fahie
edited : was 3-5 not 3-6

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Ok, lets put this in perspective.

Myself, and a good SG friend used to PVP a lot. Pre I13 I could wipe the floor with them with my ill/rad most of the time, do well with my spines/sr ( my two *specced* pvp toons ) and either win or lose with the blasters and other ancillaries.

Since I13, *nothing* can touch the fort. Best I got was 3-6 with the scrapper.

I'm not a pvp newbie ( nor the best in the world ) .. but I know enough that when I am getting my [censored] handed to me on a consistent basis regardless of my AT then it's overpowered. Certainly baring in mind that we are of roughly equal skill.

And yes .. doh .. I do have aim and build up.

Read the threads, acknowledge the godness of forts in I13, relax and take a deep breath

Fahie

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Simple if you get beatenby forts all time roll a toon that can beat them cause there are toons that can beat them.

Every At is strong against certain sets and weak against others....

Try killing elec armor with energy attacks or invul with smashing lethal....

Forts and nw have trouble hitting high def sets too

Just because certain At or sets cant beat a fort doesnt mean it op, cause there are At and sets that can beat them without much trouble.

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Funny i see good and well build blasters hit throuh elude pretty yoften.

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Are you still living in i12? because in i12 a blaster can rip through elude but we are in i13 now and DR kinda screws over your tohit so i dont see how any blaster hits through elude and kills a NW, he might get the odd hit but he wont complete a full chain of attacks and kill the NW (unless the NW isnt built for defense and sucks).

p.s Your on the EU there aren't really any "good" blasters left.

Gamete..

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Every At is strong against certain sets and weak against others....

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You just described I12 pvp not I13

Fahie

Lol .. gamete beating me to it now.

We really need an X4 champion to contribute to this thread so that Moghedien actually believes us

Fahie

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Lol .. gamete beating me to it now.

We really need an X4 champion to contribute to this thread so that Moghedien actually believes us

Fahie

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I got my ingame experience you got yours ^^

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Btw rent, i saw you killing nw and forts pretty often, still saying they are op and its the players that are noobs in pvp cause you beat them, without having even played one EVER is noob tbh.

SS can hit Forts just fine and buildup + aim gives more tohit than rage...........

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Yeah i can kill a lot of night widows and fortunas but it's very hard work to so and most of them suck (player wise)


I know for a fact if Gamete, Spag or any other good player was to fight me on there Fortuna's against the same blaster i'd die rather quickly. I don't need a fortuna or night widow to work that out.....


As for Super strength and rage.... I've only got 99% to-hit on my tank but that's a constant 99% running all the time. A whole 11% higher than my blaster without BU etc. That's not including +acc bonuses.... That's why SS tanks hit Veat's more than blasters.

Seriously how can anybody argue that forts and widows arent op? A decent build and half decent player can have a basically unkillable toon with a very respectable ranged attack chain. Add on top all the veat trimmings like mezzes and huge mez resists and all the other mitigation and self buff powers.

The perfect example of the mess the devs made with i13 pvp.

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Lol .. gamete beating me to it now.

We really need an X4 champion to contribute to this thread so that Moghedien actually believes us

Fahie

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Gamete is right.

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Seriously how can anybody argue that forts and widows arent op? A decent build and half decent player can have a basically unkillable toon with a very respectable ranged attack chain. Add on top all the veat trimmings like mezzes and huge mez resists and all the other mitigation and self buff powers.

The perfect example of the mess the devs made with i13 pvp.

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Odd you mention veats cause banes and crabs suck in pvp...

Btw you got a SS brute and you know that SS negates defenseive sets almost entirely, making them easy kill targets, since they have no resists to rely on if defenses fails....

Do i say SS is op in PvP cause it can kill defensive sets without probs because rage is totally op in pvp even in its nerfed state ?

Nope since there are still sets SS isnt good against...
There are still sets nightwidows or forts arent good against like rad or /rad, forts can detoggle the /rad debuffs, nightwidows cant.


Forts and NW dont have defdebuff resists, and therefore are very vulnerable to defdebuffs... and there are tons and tons of sets with defdebuffs.


Just pick toons with the right sets to counter and negate forts or nw strenghts...
If you fight a /fire tanker or /fire brute with a fire attack set you will suck big time , same goes for fighting an /elec armor with energy attacks or /invul with smashing/lethal.... is /elec and /fa or /invul op because of that ? NO

get a /storm or /sonic or /ta or rad/ defender,
get munitions mastery and take surveillance on a blaster,
get a SS tank with laser beam eyes(which kills forts and nw very very fast cause they hit most time and laserbeam eyes got defdebuff in it too)
get an earth/ or /ta or /rad or /storm troller
get a broadsword/ spines/ dualblades/ or katana/ scrapper

Take focused accuracy on a tank or scrapper and the problem is solved without any defdebuffs at all.

ALL those sets have some or many defdebuff powers in them allowing them to debuff nw or forts defenses.

Are there many sets which can debuff resistance ? NO
Are there many sets that can debuff Defense ? Hell yeah

Sure defense is better than resists for damg migitation but it HAS to be since it can be debuffed and overcome far easier than resists.

Out of elude nw and especially fort defenses arent that good, not softcapped at all.

If pl cant hit through the denfeses with buildup, chances are several players are targeting the same fort or nw and therefore increasing the elusivity she gets.

Ever tried killing a tanker ?
Its almost impossible for a single char no matter what At or sets, if Forts and Nw are op , tankers are op even more... cause unlike forts and nw they got no real weak spot

a NW dont need to detoggle a rad, seeing as forts and NW get tohit debuff res in one of the powers they just hit straight through it. Why would you need to detoggle a rad when as a NW you can 2 or 3 shot him?

A NW can get the first hit by using Slash from hide presence, assuming this is a duel a rad wouldnt even be able to debuff them until the NW attacks which at that point 3/4 of the rads health would be gone.

The NW build i made on mids shows slash does around 617 dmg with BU. After that attack all that is needed is placate and spirit sharks. Spirit sharks (according to mids) doing around 880 dmg with BU and 2 procs (so like 600 unslotted). Seeing most defenders don't have above 1400 hp it wouldnt take long for the NW to take out the rad. Also if this was in the arena you can take temp stun grenades .

Now i don't see why you are arguing forts and NW aren't OP when clearly the majority of the community here are agreeing they are. There are currently 4 things imo that are OP at this time. They are; Psy blasters (good with or without DR), ele/therms (no end = no toggles = no defense), Forts and NW's (great defense, great damage, good mes resist and +tohit) and Ice/ss tanks (also great defense, good damage and if taken a very powerful hold from the epic pool).

Oh yeh i saw in a previous post you mentioned about the global resist blasters get. Well it isn't just blasters who get good resist bonuses you know. All squishies get insane resist bonuses. That goes for villains too -_-

Gamete..

Just for reference heres the NW build i made..You're telling me those defense levels are easy to go through?

Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Mental Blast -- Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(3), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), HO:Centri(15)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(11), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(11), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(13), Ksmt-ToHit+(46)
Level 2: Strike -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(7), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(7), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), T'Death-Dam%(50)
Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(5), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(5), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(40)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(9)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(34)
Level 12: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-ResKB(33), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(34), Numna-Heal(43), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(43)
Level 18: Slash -- Hectmb-Dam%(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(19), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(23), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(21)
Level 22: Mask Presence -- RedFtn-Def(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(25), RedFtn-EndRdx(29), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(31), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 24: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(25), AdjTgt-Rchg(29)
Level 26: Foresight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(34), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(37), S'fstPrt-ResKB(46)
Level 28: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(40), LkGmblr-Rchg+(48)
Level 32: Mind Link -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), HO:Membr(50)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(36), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-Build%(39), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(40)
Level 38: Elude -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(39), HO:Membr(39)
Level 41: Spirit Shark -- Apoc-Dam%(A), Apoc-Dmg(42), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(43), ExStrk-Dam%(50)
Level 44: Eviscerate -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(45), Erad-Acc/Rchg(45), HO:Nucle(46)
Level 47: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
------------

Gamete..

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Seriously how can anybody argue that forts and widows arent op? A decent build and half decent player can have a basically unkillable toon with a very respectable ranged attack chain. Add on top all the veat trimmings like mezzes and huge mez resists and all the other mitigation and self buff powers.

The perfect example of the mess the devs made with i13 pvp.

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Odd you mention veats cause banes and crabs suck in pvp...

Btw you got a SS brute and you know that SS negates defenseive sets almost entirely, making them easy kill targets, since they have no resists to rely on if defenses fails....

Do i say SS is op in PvP cause it can kill defensive sets without probs because rage is totally op in pvp even in its nerfed state ?

Nope since there are still sets SS isnt good against...
There are still sets nightwidows or forts arent good against like rad or /rad, forts can detoggle the /rad debuffs, nightwidows cant.


Forts and NW dont have defdebuff resists, and therefore are very vulnerable to defdebuffs... and there are tons and tons of sets with defdebuffs.


Just pick toons with the right sets to counter and negate forts or nw strenghts...
If you fight a /fire tanker or /fire brute with a fire attack set you will suck big time , same goes for fighting an /elec armor with energy attacks or /invul with smashing/lethal.... is /elec and /fa or /invul op because of that ? NO

get a /storm or /sonic or /ta or rad/ defender,
get munitions mastery and take surveillance on a blaster,
get a SS tank with laser beam eyes(which kills forts and nw very very fast cause they hit most time and laserbeam eyes got defdebuff in it too)
get an earth/ or /ta or /rad or /storm troller
get a broadsword/ spines/ dualblades/ or katana/ scrapper

Take focused accuracy on a tank or scrapper and the problem is solved without any defdebuffs at all.

ALL those sets have some or many defdebuff powers in them allowing them to debuff nw or forts defenses.

Are there many sets which can debuff resistance ? NO
Are there many sets that can debuff Defense ? Hell yeah

Sure defense is better than resists for damg migitation but it HAS to be since it can be debuffed and overcome far easier than resists.

Out of elude nw and especially fort defenses arent that good, not softcapped at all.

If pl cant hit through the denfeses with buildup, chances are several players are targeting the same fort or nw and therefore increasing the elusivity she gets.

Ever tried killing a tanker ?
Its almost impossible for a single char no matter what At or sets, if Forts and Nw are op , tankers are op even more... cause unlike forts and nw they got no real weak spot

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Do you actually pvp?
And no just taking FA does not solve the problem whatsoever. My bs has FA and some acc bonuses from sets and max acc slotted in attacks and still struggles to hit widows/forts. And the def debuff is pretty irrelevant. You need a sustained string of attacks to make it count and that is pretty rare.

A fort can destroy a tanker very quickly. One killed my stoney in granite and another granite in about 20 seconds.

one v one the are the ultimate build. Roll a rad. If the fort doesnt spike you instantly and you actually manage to hurt them they can just pop phase>aid self and be back hurting you in a short space of time.

The gank code was removed so that is incorrect.

Nice wall of text but defence, ss forts etc ARE op. I pvp pretty much every day in RV and these facts are obvious and no amount of incorrect number crunching will change this.

LoL nice build gamete.
Illustrates my point perfectly. Gonna take some serious heavy duty -def to even take it below the softcap I imagine.

Do u go in RV with that build? Whats you nick? Ill stay the hell away from that lol.