Looks like someone thinks NCSoft is an easy target
By
Assailant,
Posted on: 2008-12-29 22:58 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Laws are stupid.
NCNC should just go to court, nod and say "Hey, what about Blizzard? Mythic? EA? Funcom? Gravity? Square Enix? They're all doing these, and oh look, some of them have had products out before us that 'infringe on these patents'.
Lol all I can say is on this is what a bunch of gorram noobs! 
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The joyful world of the US Patent system strikes again.
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Worlds.com Files Suit Against NCsoft for Patent Infringement
On Christmas Eve, Worlds.com filed a complaint against NCsoft for infringing on its virtual world and MMO patent. Worlds.com, which was one of the early virtual world developers from the '90s, made waves earlier this month when it announced that it had selected an intellectual property firm to defend its two patents related to scaling virtual spaces and enabling users to interact and chat in 3D environments.
Specifically, the suit claims that NCsoft has infringed on patent 7,181,690, "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space" through its games, including City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dungeon Runners, Exteel, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lineage II, and Tablula Rasa.
The complaint seeks to recover damages for the infringement and asks that NCsoft be prevented from infringing on patent 690, which covers scaling. Based on NCsoft's headquarters in Austin as a source of the infringement, the complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Texas, Tyler Division.
Worlds.com Inc. v. NCsoft Corp is Civil Action No. 6:08-cv-508.
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Source
So, once again someone's looking to make a fast buck, has a patent on something flaming obvious, and has picked the target they believe least likely to be able to defend itself. Probably end result: another duff patent bites the dust.
If you're interested, and mad, enough to read it, the actual complaint can be read here.
PS. GR, if this should be somewhere else, please move it. I figure it's game realted enough to be here.
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Yup, they choose NCsoft because currently NCsoft is rather weak in the financial aspects of everything what with having to can a multi million dollar game because it wasn't coming anywhere near breaking even never mind making a profit and that most of the rest of the honey jar has been tied up in the developement of Aion, dubbed to be NCsofts one and only savior.
Yeah worlds.com are expecting NCsoft to go for a quick and easy out of court settlement but if NCsoft do that then that would mean worlds.com would be open to take any number of companies to court...with a very good chance of winning or worse crippling those companies to the point of closure.
Really scummy thing to do and I already know the rest of the other numerous MMO communities are in uproar over this.
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if NCsoft do that then that would mean worlds.com would be open to take any number of companies to court...with a very good chance of winning
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No, it means that NCSoft pay them money and that's it. An out of court settlement means exactly that, out of court.
It's an easy to win case anyway, NCSoft probably have some goon on retainer who can deal with this pointlessness at no real expense. Try bringing this s*** to the doorstep of Blizzard and by the end of it you'll be paying them.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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US Laws are stupid.
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I fixed that for you
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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US Laws are stupid.
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I fixed that for you
[/ QUOTE ]don't say one country law is stupid if you don't look at your own country 1st....british got tons of useless and very very outdated law
like London Hackney Carriages (taxis/cabs) must carry a bale of hay and a sack of oats.
It is illegal to be drunk on Licensed Premises (in a pub or bar).
Any person found breaking a boiled egg at the sharp end will be sentenced to 24 hours in the village stocks (enacted by Edward VI). and don't think this one won't be acted on for they will do it, if need or remember as it still active law
25 world's strangest laws
The correct thing to say would properly be:
Patent Laws are overzealous, illogical, and to some extent stupid.
Sure I get that you should be able to patent a specific process. But to patent concept? That just outrageous.
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The complaint seeks to recover damages for the lack of brains cells that they have due to dumarightess (an illness that affects people who are born dumb) and asks that NCsoft be prevented from infringing on patent 690, which covers scaling. Based on NCsoft's headquarters in Austin as a source of the infringement, the complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Texas, Tyler Division.
Worlds.com Inc. v. NCsoft Corp is Civil Action No. 6:08-cv-508.
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Well I for one was a little worried at first, then the more I read into it the more it angers me, for many reasons,
1- how they are even having the brass balls to do this in the first place
2- how the patent even got passed, christ ive actually read the full thing .390 is so [censored] vague its untrue :S
3- why they went after NC soft solely, I read that its partly due to the 3d bubble chat and scaling, but what of all the private server MMO's, the F2P ones too, these greedy [censored] are going to get their grubby mitts on everything they can??, the world still amazes me to this day.
However thank god for this little snippet of info that left me less aggrivated, if it can be used as precedent that is.
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Just for reference, Worlds.com has noted that they plan to target many different providers with this. They're basically trying to get several companies to pay licensing fees, betting that the licenses are cheaper than litigation. Oftentimes, when you don't hear bigger names (like Blizzard or SOE) on the list, it's because:
a) they're still "negotiating in good faith (stalling, really-hoping someone else will foot the bill for the legal challenge) or
b) they paid up, knowing that the $$ will go to making their more cash-strapped competition have to divert resources.
This one probably won't go too far.
They filed in 99, but Meridian 59... one of the first 3d MMORPG's ("massively" originally referring to managing more than a few dozen concurrent connections back then) was released in '96. Looking at the patent, M59 demonstrates all that three years before filing (and 8 years before the award). IIRC, Brian Greene (who STILL runs Meridian 59 servers as "near death studios") has been an expert witness for establishing "prior art" (thus nullifying the patent) in similar cases.
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Art of War Co-Leader - Union *Global@Warscythe*
"The box said Windows Vista or better - so I installed Linux"
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don't say one country law is stupid if you don't look at your own country 1st....british got tons of useless and very very outdated law
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There is a difference between 'stupid' laws that never got cleaned up, or plain 'in effect' laws such as the patent system. (or the sue system for that mather, we remember the cat in the microwave million sue right? )
Its not the first time, and sure wont be the last, that again the whole patent system failed misserably on such mathers. (specialy tech-related).
50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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US Laws are stupid.
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I fixed that for you
[/ QUOTE ]don't say one country law is stupid if you don't look at your own country 1st....british got tons of useless and very very outdated law
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Why not?
Thats like saying I can't say your house is red because I have a red house too.
@Sweet Chilli
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25 world's strangest laws
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Some draconian laws here. I suspect if Item 14 was enacted on these forums there would be a severe reduction in posters.
To get back on topic, without being any form of specialist in patent law, it seems that patents are the nadir of capitalism. When one is able to "patent" a gene (that every single human being has) it's clearly ridiculous - but in some places it's even worse - in Japan for example, it's possible to patent an idea.
The net effect is that most corporations involved in any kind of R&D have a bucketload of patents and the waters get very murky. It will be plaintiff's job to prove infringement and not mere coincidence. I don't think NCSoft need to be too worried, especially if they bring on any other virtual world developers who can then bring their financial might to bear. Often these things turn into a wallet waving contest that fizzles out.
Thelonious Monk
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Yeah worlds.com are expecting NCsoft to go for a quick and easy out of court settlement but if NCsoft do that then that would mean worlds.com would be open to take any number of companies to court...with a very good chance of winning or worse crippling those companies to the point of closure.
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If this is a real concern, then the likes of Blizzard et al are likely to financialy back NCSoft in defeating this action.
I really should do something about this signature.
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Yeah worlds.com are expecting NCsoft to go for a quick and easy out of court settlement but if NCsoft do that then that would mean worlds.com would be open to take any number of companies to court...with a very good chance of winning or worse crippling those companies to the point of closure.
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If this is a real concern, then the likes of Blizzard et al are likely to financialy back NCSoft in defeating this action.
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I concur... NC losing this would set a precedent and cost the whole MMO industry millions. There's a good chance that before that happened, they'd for a coalition of sorts and combine their strength to squash the litigation.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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However thank god for this little snippet of info that left me less aggrivated, if it can be used as precedent that is. [ QUOTE ]
They filed in 99, but Meridian 59... one of the first 3d MMORPG's ("massively" originally referring to managing more than a few dozen concurrent connections back then) was released in '96. Looking at the patent, M59 demonstrates all that three years before filing (and 8 years before the award). IIRC, Brian Greene (who STILL runs Meridian 59 servers as "near death studios") has been an expert witness for establishing "prior art" (thus nullifying the patent) in similar cases.
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Where did you get that from? IIRC, 'prior art' doesn't apply in US Patent Law, but it does in UK Patent Law.
There used to be (and probably still is) a public key encryption program named PGP. This was technically legal in the UK, but not in the US because it broke US Patent Law. The patent, filed by RSA, was invalid in the UK because the techniques they had patented were published in an academic paper prior to the patent filing.
It's possible that 3 years of prior publication is a bit much, even for the Americans, however.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
I'm pretty certain that prior art does apply in the US courts. I've seen software patent cases dismissed in the past due to it.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Strangely enough though (and i would hate to point this out), but in theory this doesnt just include MMO's...
It *could* be applied to all games with the facility to play online (ie FPS shooters, RTS games), due to the same basic structure.
Which, strangely enough, means that i think that the whole gaming industry would *love* to join in on...
And if Worlds.com ARENT smart enough to have picked up on that one... well then to be honest, i dont think they have the brains to win this one 
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Strangely enough though (and i would hate to point this out), but in theory this doesnt just include MMO's...
It *could* be applied to all games with the facility to play online (ie FPS shooters, RTS games), due to the same basic structure.
Which, strangely enough, means that i think that the whole gaming industry would *love* to join in on...
And if Worlds.com ARENT smart enough to have picked up on that one... well then to be honest, i dont think they have the brains to win this one
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I looked at the Worlds.com website and I'm thinking this is more of a poke at Linden Labs than NCSoft but they can't afford to do it so overtly.
Thelonious Monk
1)Seen prior art used in US tech patents before. I'll try and dig out the reference I'm thinking about (or re-read and make sure I'm remembering correctly myself.
2)Didn't someone try and sue MS for some patented tech that it turned out Apple had been using for five years longer than MS, judge threw it out because the patent holder was just looking for a fast buck and not to protect its IP?
Seriously, if they wanted to go for Linden Labs then why didnt they? Why NCsoft?
As i said, this could have more serious implications than just MMO's.... and IF Worlds.com win ANY part of this, then i think we *could* probably see more Gaming Companies suing each other for "games that looks the same"...
I place my bet on David Brabham suing CCP saying that Elite is "prior" art (although granted Elite doesnt have online play.... yet)
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However thank god for this little snippet of info that left me less aggrivated, if it can be used as precedent that is. [ QUOTE ]
They filed in 99, but Meridian 59... one of the first 3d MMORPG's ("massively" originally referring to managing more than a few dozen concurrent connections back then) was released in '96. Looking at the patent, M59 demonstrates all that three years before filing (and 8 years before the award). IIRC, Brian Greene (who STILL runs Meridian 59 servers as "near death studios") has been an expert witness for establishing "prior art" (thus nullifying the patent) in similar cases.
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Where did you get that from? IIRC, 'prior art' doesn't apply in US Patent Law, but it does in UK Patent Law.
There used to be (and probably still is) a public key encryption program named PGP. This was technically legal in the UK, but not in the US because it broke US Patent Law. The patent, filed by RSA, was invalid in the UK because the techniques they had patented were published in an academic paper prior to the patent filing.
It's possible that 3 years of prior publication is a bit much, even for the Americans, however.
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Prior art "does" apply in the US too mate, its just a little trickier due to the complexity of their patent laws,
This is a little snippet of an article I had read before posting (not the type to post something made up birdy ol' chum)
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In analyzing an existing patent or in deciding whether to file a patent application for an invention, it is almost always necessary to consider the "prior art." Prior art may be defined very broadly as the entire body of knowledge from the beginning of time to the present. For example, in a U.S. Supreme Court case more than 50 years ago, the work of Benvenuto Cellini, the noted Italian artist who died in 1571, was cited in the judicial opinion as part of the prior art, invalidating a patent for the lost-wax casting of jewelry. That case was an extreme one, however, and does not give a fair indication of how prior art is considered.
Under U.S. patent laws, defining what prior art is pertinent is often critical. The patent statutes define what constitutes prior art for purposes of anticipating an invention or the claims of a patent application or patent. Unless the alleged prior art can be brought within one of the definitions set forth in the statutes, it is not pertinent and will not be considered.
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A full article which describes Prior art in patent law can be found here
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...ters-9106.html
(its a little laborious but has some good points which could work in NCsoft's favour)
Art of War Co-Leader - Union *Global@Warscythe*
"The box said Windows Vista or better - so I installed Linux"
Oh not in any way making some shiny foil hat conspiracy theory here, more of an observation....it is, however interesting to see (3rd one from the top)
http://www.worlds.com/clients.html
Art of War Co-Leader - Union *Global@Warscythe*
"The box said Windows Vista or better - so I installed Linux"
*edit adn rewrite*
Hell Aerosmith and David Bowie are clients as well...
All that shows is that Sony paid them to create their own 3D world... and [u]unless[u] Sony licensed it for use inside "Home".... i think that Sony (as well as SOE) will be on the hunting list as well....
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2)Didn't someone try and sue MS for some patented tech that it turned out Apple had been using for five years longer than MS, judge threw it out because the patent holder was just looking for a fast buck and not to protect its IP?
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Apple successfully sued Atari over the WIMP UI used in almost all computers these days. This resulted in the atrocious Gem OS UI and everyone believing that Apple (and Steve Jobs) invented WIMP UIs. Actually, they had been invented several years earlier by XEROX PARC, and published. However, prior art was apparently not upheld in this case.
(I don't like Apple much, and Steve Jobs less. They were responsible for crippling early development of windows OSes, and, along with IBM, are therefore responsible for the uber-power that is Microsoft. And yet, while Apple claim to be the lords of freedom in a world of Windows, their systems are more restrictive and more proprietary than Wintel systems are. Sorry, for off-topic rant.)
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
The joyful world of the US Patent system strikes again.
[ QUOTE ]
Worlds.com Files Suit Against NCsoft for Patent Infringement
On Christmas Eve, Worlds.com filed a complaint against NCsoft for infringing on its virtual world and MMO patent. Worlds.com, which was one of the early virtual world developers from the '90s, made waves earlier this month when it announced that it had selected an intellectual property firm to defend its two patents related to scaling virtual spaces and enabling users to interact and chat in 3D environments.
Specifically, the suit claims that NCsoft has infringed on patent 7,181,690, "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space" through its games, including City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dungeon Runners, Exteel, Guild Wars, Lineage, Lineage II, and Tablula Rasa.
The complaint seeks to recover damages for the infringement and asks that NCsoft be prevented from infringing on patent 690, which covers scaling. Based on NCsoft's headquarters in Austin as a source of the infringement, the complaint was filed in the Eastern District of Texas, Tyler Division.
Worlds.com Inc. v. NCsoft Corp is Civil Action No. 6:08-cv-508.
[/ QUOTE ]
Source
So, once again someone's looking to make a fast buck, has a patent on something flaming obvious, and has picked the target they believe least likely to be able to defend itself. Probably end result: another duff patent bites the dust.
If you're interested, and mad, enough to read it, the actual complaint can be read here.
PS. GR, if this should be somewhere else, please move it. I figure it's game realted enough to be here.
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.