<post deleted - references other removed text>
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I agree with others, Posi is basically saying "OK we did it wrong but I can't admit it so I'll ignore it and introduce this so we can make it pre-I13" which in my mind says "So, Posi, why didn't you look over the changes you made?"
[/ QUOTE ]
This announcement is only possible now because the Dev team knew in advance that some of our PvP community would not like the changes, and would choose not to adapt to them. When you make changes on this scale there are always going to be existing players who are unhappy, and it simply makes sense to give them the option to continue playing the game they enjoy if that is possible.
The team are committed to making PvP in City of Heroes appeal to a larger audience, and they're committed to making improvements to Zone, Arena and Base PvP. The pre-Issue 13 PvP system isn't viable for the feature revamps on the way. Making pre-issue 13 PvP available via the Arena is a relatively simple thing to do, and makes sense for those who enjoyed that form of PvP.
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This is all well and good, but zone PvP isn't getting dealt with.
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Zone PvP will be addressed, it's already been mentioned that they have plans for a revamp.
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My point was if they don't think they had enough people helping state side then there's plenty over here. Also telling the players about what they went testing would also help..... Something they'll do next time apparently
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you've missed the most important part of what Ex Libris was saying in that post. The lack of testers was referring to early betas (one of which we did try including EU community in). For Issue 13 they brought in a significant number of PvP'ers: they knew they'd need them. What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable and got in the way of being able to iterate changes.
I've seen from these forums that many of the changes made during beta were received positively. Many of those changes were sourced from the community members who took the time to provide high quality feedback. If all of the PvP community invited to I13 Closed Beta had taken that approach, then the number of iterations and improvements to the new system would quite probably have been higher.
It wasn't a lack of numbers that was the problem. It was a lack of testers willing to work with the dev team instead of throwing insults and demands. It is precisely the sort of things that I have removed from this thread (and some that I haven't but instead chosen to respond to) that hampered the development process for the Issue 13 PvP Revamp, and will continue to hamper the ongoing process of improving PvP in CoH.
The dev team want to communicate with the PvP community. Effective communication is a two way street, however: the PvP community needs to step up as well, and show that they're willing to communicate with the devs in a mature and reasonable manner. Throwing insults and responding to the dev team giving an option to play pre-Issue 13 PvP by making accusations like those in this thread does this community no good at all.
The folks at NCNC are stepping up on PvP and they're committing to improving PvP and bringing it to a larger audience. They're committing to revamping existing features and giving everyone a better PvP experience. It will take some time, but they're willing to work with you. The question is: will the PvP community step up as well, and work with the devs? Insults and accusations get you nothing. Communicating effectively just might get you a whole lot.
Edit to add: The community taking the initiative to put together a Test ladder and work together on testing and communicating is a grand start.
[ QUOTE ]
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I agree with others, Posi is basically saying "OK we did it wrong but I can't admit it so I'll ignore it and introduce this so we can make it pre-I13" which in my mind says "So, Posi, why didn't you look over the changes you made?"
[/ QUOTE ]
This announcement is only possible now because the Dev team knew in advance that some of our PvP community would not like the changes, and would choose not to adapt to them. When you make changes on this scale there are always going to be existing players who are unhappy, and it simply makes sense to give them the option to continue playing the game they enjoy if that is possible.
The team are committed to making PvP in City of Heroes appeal to a larger audience, and they're committed to making improvements to Zone, Arena and Base PvP. The pre-Issue 13 PvP system isn't viable for the feature revamps on the way. Making pre-issue 13 PvP available via the Arena is a relatively simple thing to do, and makes sense for those who enjoyed that form of PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
This is all well and good, but zone PvP isn't getting dealt with.
[/ QUOTE ]
Zone PvP will be addressed, it's already been mentioned that they have plans for a revamp.
[ QUOTE ]
My point was if they don't think they had enough people helping state side then there's plenty over here. Also telling the players about what they went testing would also help..... Something they'll do next time apparently
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you've missed the most important part of what Ex Libris was saying in that post. The lack of testers was referring to early betas (one of which we did try including EU community in). For Issue 13 they brought in a significant number of PvP'ers: they knew they'd need them. What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable and got in the way of being able to iterate changes.
I've seen from these forums that many of the changes made during beta were received positively. Many of those changes were sourced from the community members who took the time to provide high quality feedback. If all of the PvP community invited to I13 Closed Beta had taken that approach, then the number of iterations and improvements to the new system would quite probably have been higher.
It wasn't a lack of numbers that was the problem. It was a lack of testers willing to work with the dev team instead of throwing insults and demands. It is precisely the sort of things that I have removed from this thread (and some that I haven't but instead chosen to respond to) that hampered the development process for the Issue 13 PvP Revamp, and will continue to hamper the ongoing process of improving PvP in CoH.
The dev team want to communicate with the PvP community. Effective communication is a two way street, however: the PvP community needs to step up as well, and show that they're willing to communicate with the devs in a mature and reasonable manner. Throwing insults and responding to the dev team giving an option to play pre-Issue 13 PvP by making accusations like those in this thread does this community no good at all.
The folks at NCNC are stepping up on PvP and they're committing to improving PvP and bringing it to a larger audience. They're committing to revamping existing features and giving everyone a better PvP experience. It will take some time, but they're willing to work with you. The question is: will the PvP community step up as well, and work with the devs? Insults and accusations get you nothing. Communicating effectively just might get you a whole lot.
Edit to add: The community taking the initiative to put together a Test ladder and work together on testing and communicating is a grand start.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont tar everyone with the same brush GR there have been many many good posts on these forums about the new pvp and alot of time has been spent testing the changes. While i agree there has been some negative comments and insults about it at the end of the day it is to be expected after all its human nature.
Maybe next time such huge changes to pvp are made the EU pvp community could be included from the start in the testing of it, while we dont have the numbers of the usa i bet we could provide better communication with the devs from the start unlike how its been done this time.
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I agree with others, Posi is basically saying "OK we did it wrong but I can't admit it so I'll ignore it and introduce this so we can make it pre-I13" which in my mind says "So, Posi, why didn't you look over the changes you made?"
[/ QUOTE ]
This announcement is only possible now because the Dev team knew in advance that some of our PvP community would not like the changes, and would choose not to adapt to them. When you make changes on this scale there are always going to be existing players who are unhappy, and it simply makes sense to give them the option to continue playing the game they enjoy if that is possible.
[/ QUOTE ]
The Devs were aware in advance of the PvP communities dislike and refusal to adapt and yet they were invited into beta and then blamed for effectively unusable feedback and getting in the way of changes.
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The team are committed to making PvP in City of Heroes appeal to a larger audience, and they're committed to making improvements to Zone, Arena and Base PvP. The pre-Issue 13 PvP system isn't viable for the feature revamps on the way. Making pre-issue 13 PvP available via the Arena is a relatively simple thing to do, and makes sense for those who enjoyed that form of PvP.
[/ QUOTE ]
I cant find the post but i specifically remember Castle stating that this wasnt going to happen for a while if at all.
And what are these feature revamps? Please extrapolate as these are KILLER facts. One of the main reasons I have quit is because of the ludicrously overpowered mobs in RV. Overall it feels like a very unfinished and unpolished system now. You feel the pre-i13 system isnt viable for the rumored zone,arena and base revamps. Well I can accept that fact but by your own admission we are left with a system that doesnt suit the pre-i13 zone,arena and base pvp areas we still have?
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This is all well and good, but zone PvP isn't getting dealt with.
[/ QUOTE ]
Zone PvP will be addressed, it's already been mentioned that they have plans for a revamp.
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My point was if they don't think they had enough people helping state side then there's plenty over here. Also telling the players about what they went testing would also help..... Something they'll do next time apparently
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you've missed the most important part of what Ex Libris was saying in that post. The lack of testers was referring to early betas (one of which we did try including EU community in). For Issue 13 they brought in a significant number of PvP'ers: they knew they'd need them. What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable and got in the way of being able to iterate changes.
I've seen from these forums that many of the changes made during beta were received positively. Many of those changes were sourced from the community members who took the time to provide high quality feedback. If all of the PvP community invited to I13 Closed Beta had taken that approach, then the number of iterations and improvements to the new system would quite probably have been higher.
It wasn't a lack of numbers that was the problem. It was a lack of testers willing to work with the dev team instead of throwing insults and demands. It is precisely the sort of things that I have removed from this thread (and some that I haven't but instead chosen to respond to) that hampered the development process for the Issue 13 PvP Revamp, and will continue to hamper the ongoing process of improving PvP in CoH.
The dev team want to communicate with the PvP community. Effective communication is a two way street, however: the PvP community needs to step up as well, and show that they're willing to communicate with the devs in a mature and reasonable manner. Throwing insults and responding to the dev team giving an option to play pre-Issue 13 PvP by making accusations like those in this thread does this community no good at all.
The folks at NCNC are stepping up on PvP and they're committing to improving PvP and bringing it to a larger audience. They're committing to revamping existing features and giving everyone a better PvP experience. It will take some time, but they're willing to work with you. The question is: will the PvP community step up as well, and work with the devs? Insults and accusations get you nothing. Communicating effectively just might get you a whole lot.
Edit to add: The community taking the initiative to put together a Test ladder and work together on testing and communicating is a grand start.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well where to start here. Allow me to distill the points - Due to pvp'ers in beta testing (that the devs were aware in advance would react this way) the Devs continued to push an unfinished system live. Added to the fact the devs were implementing a system intended for a new revamped pvp enviroment into the pre-i13 enviroment. Plus from my scanning of the US boards over this period there was little or no feedback to non beta pvp'ers. Further there was a distinct feeling that the devs couldnt care less about pvp'ers feelings. Culminating in LHs retracted statement. And statements from Castle felt as if he was digging his heels in, ie this is happening like it or not type statements. And little or no moves were made to stem the tide of pve'ers "CRY MOAR!" statements.
Now I know or hope the devs are not that arrogant or malicious. But the fact is this whole pvp roll out has been an absolute public relations disaster. Not to mention the disastrous pvp2 on live.
I understand the goals and have always supported the stated goals for pvp2.0. Afaik few of these goals are even close to being attained and some are further away than ever. Not to go into detail but- Having two whole ATs relegated to a relatively useless status goes way beyond pre-13 where admittedly a lot of sets were useless but at least there were viable builds for all ATs. Tankers and Stalkers becoming blappers is just plain odd. The new FOTM along with a few old ones are starting to appear. I'll leave it there as I have stated my ideas on what is wrong with i13pvp frequently and no one seems to care.
Ex and yourself are taking the first positive steps in repairing the bridges that got burned. Please move on and stop blaming the now departed US pvp community. It isnt helpful and isnt true. The failings are fact but the responsibility lies with the management of the business as ever. Blaming your customers is just one more awful PR move imo.
Asking the community to start a test ladder is harsh though. Seriously after what just happened to the test pvp'ers us side. Bad taste. This is exactly one area that needs action from the other side of the fence.
Show us your commitment. Devs organize an official version of a test server. Olive branch league or something.
Maybe then I will think about re-subscribing.
CHARNELL
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I agree with others, Posi is basically saying "OK we did it wrong but I can't admit it so I'll ignore it and introduce this so we can make it pre-I13" which in my mind says "So, Posi, why didn't you look over the changes you made?"
[/ QUOTE ]
This announcement is only possible now because the Dev team knew in advance that some of our PvP community would not like the changes, and would choose not to adapt to them. When you make changes on this scale there are always going to be existing players who are unhappy, and it simply makes sense to give them the option to continue playing the game they enjoy if that is possible.
The team are committed to making PvP in City of Heroes appeal to a larger audience, and they're committed to making improvements to Zone, Arena and Base PvP. The pre-Issue 13 PvP system isn't viable for the feature revamps on the way. Making pre-issue 13 PvP available via the Arena is a relatively simple thing to do, and makes sense for those who enjoyed that form of PvP.
[ QUOTE ]
This is all well and good, but zone PvP isn't getting dealt with.
[/ QUOTE ]
Zone PvP will be addressed, it's already been mentioned that they have plans for a revamp.
[ QUOTE ]
My point was if they don't think they had enough people helping state side then there's plenty over here. Also telling the players about what they went testing would also help..... Something they'll do next time apparently
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you've missed the most important part of what Ex Libris was saying in that post. The lack of testers was referring to early betas (one of which we did try including EU community in). For Issue 13 they brought in a significant number of PvP'ers: they knew they'd need them. What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable and got in the way of being able to iterate changes.
I've seen from these forums that many of the changes made during beta were received positively. Many of those changes were sourced from the community members who took the time to provide high quality feedback. If all of the PvP community invited to I13 Closed Beta had taken that approach, then the number of iterations and improvements to the new system would quite probably have been higher.
It wasn't a lack of numbers that was the problem. It was a lack of testers willing to work with the dev team instead of throwing insults and demands. It is precisely the sort of things that I have removed from this thread (and some that I haven't but instead chosen to respond to) that hampered the development process for the Issue 13 PvP Revamp, and will continue to hamper the ongoing process of improving PvP in CoH.
The dev team want to communicate with the PvP community. Effective communication is a two way street, however: the PvP community needs to step up as well, and show that they're willing to communicate with the devs in a mature and reasonable manner. Throwing insults and responding to the dev team giving an option to play pre-Issue 13 PvP by making accusations like those in this thread does this community no good at all.
The folks at NCNC are stepping up on PvP and they're committing to improving PvP and bringing it to a larger audience. They're committing to revamping existing features and giving everyone a better PvP experience. It will take some time, but they're willing to work with you. The question is: will the PvP community step up as well, and work with the devs? Insults and accusations get you nothing. Communicating effectively just might get you a whole lot.
Edit to add: The community taking the initiative to put together a Test ladder and work together on testing and communicating is a grand start.
[/ QUOTE ]
And maybe it's time this dev team learned to view a situation over all and see that wasting time on this scale, on what is always going to be a minority sport, is a waste of time.
And i say that being a fan of pvp, but a bigger fan of this game going forward as a whole, with new stuff to do, something it is becoming sadly lacking in.
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The Devs were aware in advance of the PvP communities dislike and refusal to adapt and yet they were invited into beta and then blamed for effectively unusable feedback and getting in the way of changes.
[/ QUOTE ]
Personally I say that you can always blame someone who is insulting.
I know I propably would have been unable to give constructive feedback on this as well so I dont try to claim otherwise.
I don't think there are any players left to test the new PvP for the Dev's...they seem to have all left. Does that tell the Dev's something?
@Sweet Chilli
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What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't you mean "unprintable"? 
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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I don't think there are any players left to test the new PvP for the Dev's...they seem to have all left. Does that tell the Dev's something?
[/ QUOTE ]
No.
As sad as it is there'll average out to be more casual testers throwing back feedback now it's live than there were committed PvP'ers on Test doing so.
[ QUOTE ]
I think you've missed the most important part of what Ex Libris was saying in that post. The lack of testers was referring to early betas (one of which we did try including EU community in). For Issue 13 they brought in a significant number of PvP'ers: they knew they'd need them. What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable and got in the way of being able to iterate changes.
[/ QUOTE ]
I got all of what Ex Libris was saying. She was blaming the US PvP'ers for not providing the data the dev's wanted.
My only point (which i tried to put tactfully rather than just "give us beta access") was that EU players should be included in beta's that make changes on this scale, especially if the US players aren't giving them what they want/need.
I know we have our own insult throwing machines but the majority would provide good feedback, just because it's a rare honour if nothing else. You will have a good idea of who and who not to invite regarding to the quality of feedback.
[ QUOTE ]
The dev team want to communicate with the PvP community. Effective communication is a two way street, however: the PvP community needs to step up as well, and show that they're willing to communicate with the devs in a mature and reasonable manner. Throwing insults and responding to the dev team giving an option to play pre-Issue 13 PvP by making accusations like those in this thread does this community no good at all.
[/ QUOTE ]
Constructive feedback is always the best way to go, i agree 100% but this two way street will never happen whether we write 3 page detailed essays or a one line sarcastic comment as only you and Palladium read our forums.
I'm sure the dev's are too busy around beta time to be reading substantial emails from you when they can check the beta forum for any information they require.
I know that's an old age argument but that is definitely how it seems.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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On a serious note though, i'd be happy to contribute anything i can to a PvP test ladder. If X4 can get new people into PvP then i can't see why this wouldn't. Anybody reading this thread interested in this?
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I agree wholeheartedly with what GR is saying.
There is a lot of rubbish being spouted about the PVP changes, some of which is not even true, for example if u were to read about the travel supression, you would think you are stood still all the time when this simply is not the case, it isnt actually that much different.
The people throwing their toys out of their prams also resort to insults when something positive is posted about it, like " Oh you obviously dont PVP that much or know what you are talking about".
I think the changes are for the better, and for all those people who seem to think it has killed PVP, it was hardly teeming before was it? if it was so good, where were all these people then?
Sure it isnt perfect, for example the diminished returns on the healing sucks if that is your main type of powers or your only defense, but I have faith that it will be looked at and improved.
A few folk had a go last night and a fun time was had by all, so hang in there and let the changes evolve.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
[ QUOTE ]
I agree wholeheartedly with what GR is saying.
There is a lot of rubbish being spouted about the PVP changes, some of which is not even true, for example if u were to read about the travel supression, you would think you are stood still all the time when this simply is not the case, it isnt actually that much different.
The people throwing their toys out of their prams also resort to insults when something positive is posted about it, like " Oh you obviously dont PVP that much or know what you are talking about".
I think the changes are for the better, and for all those people who seem to think it has killed PVP, it was hardly teeming before was it? if it was so good, where were all these people then?
Sure it isnt perfect, for example the diminished returns on the healing sucks if that is your main type of powers or your only defense, but I have faith that it will be looked at and improved.
A few folk had a go last night and a fun time was had by all, so hang in there and let the changes evolve.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the flame bait.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree wholeheartedly with what GR is saying.
There is a lot of rubbish being spouted about the PVP changes, some of which is not even true, for example if u were to read about the travel supression, you would think you are stood still all the time when this simply is not the case, it isnt actually that much different.
The people throwing their toys out of their prams also resort to insults when something positive is posted about it, like " Oh you obviously dont PVP that much or know what you are talking about".
I think the changes are for the better, and for all those people who seem to think it has killed PVP, it was hardly teeming before was it? if it was so good, where were all these people then?
Sure it isnt perfect, for example the diminished returns on the healing sucks if that is your main type of powers or your only defense, but I have faith that it will be looked at and improved.
A few folk had a go last night and a fun time was had by all, so hang in there and let the changes evolve.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the flame bait.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well that just proves my point that you cant post anything positive about the PVP changes......
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree wholeheartedly with what GR is saying.
There is a lot of rubbish being spouted about the PVP changes, some of which is not even true, for example if u were to read about the travel supression, you would think you are stood still all the time when this simply is not the case, it isnt actually that much different.
The people throwing their toys out of their prams also resort to insults when something positive is posted about it, like " Oh you obviously dont PVP that much or know what you are talking about".
I think the changes are for the better, and for all those people who seem to think it has killed PVP, it was hardly teeming before was it? if it was so good, where were all these people then?
Sure it isnt perfect, for example the diminished returns on the healing sucks if that is your main type of powers or your only defense, but I have faith that it will be looked at and improved.
A few folk had a go last night and a fun time was had by all, so hang in there and let the changes evolve.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the flame bait.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well that just proves my point that you cant post anything positive about the PVP changes......
[/ QUOTE ]
I would if there was anything good about them. Even arena acts funny and the changes are supposed to be for them.
12.5% defence to psi (from frozen armour for some reason) and a psi domi with 140% to-hit couldn't touch me. Even psi blasters struggle to hit me. Movement is terrible and damage is skew whiff.
That's my opinion on the matter and it's unfair to say the people un happy with the changes are throwing the toys out of the pram, just because it's nothing positive. Our opinions are just as valid as yours.
Flame baiting won't make anything better though will it?
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
Firstly I wasn't flame baiting, I was agreeing with GR and saying that the changes are not all bad as people like you would like everyone to believe.
True, you are entitled to your view, but then so are other people, and you keep saying there is nothing positive in there at all is unhelpful as well as being untrue.
Certain ATs will find the changes better, certain ones worse, and imbalances will no doubt be looked at.
To say a blanket "there is nothing good about them" is actually barefaced lying.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
I'd just like to second you shazan.
I agree wholeheartedly with Ghostraptor's post.
After reading it I also did NOT get the impression he was tarring everyone with the same brush, or generalizing the PvP community as some posters seem to believe. Saying that the majority of the invited testers did not provide useable feedback is NOT the same as generalizing.
Saying that "all feedback we can get from the PvP community is unusable" on the basis of the PvP testers that were invited, or the PvP:ers posting on the forums, would be generalizing. And this he didn't write.
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I'd just like to second you shazan.
I agree wholeheartedly with Ghostraptor's post.
After reading it I also did NOT get the impression he was tarring everyone with the same brush, or generalizing the PvP community as some posters seem to believe. Saying that the majority of the invited testers did not provide useable feedback is NOT the same as generalizing.
Saying that "all feedback we can get from the PvP community is unusable" on the basis of the PvP testers that were invited, or the PvP:ers posting on the forums, would be generalizing. And this he didn't write.
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^This.
Or, to paraphrase GRs post yet again (from a non-PvPers perspective, but someone who is interested) - A lot of the feedback that was provided by people who tested the changes in Closed Beta was of the form termed "bad data". It was either corrupted, or did not provide sufficient detail to be useful. Therefore it was unusable in determining what further developments should be made to the PvP system. Now that it has gone Live, more data is available, in terms of feedback from more users, though it is unlikely that the proportion of "bad data" will be any less, the significantly greater amount of data available means that the absolute amount of "good data" will increase. Therefore it will be seen that a number of further alterations to the PvP system are likely to occur over the coming months, as more of the "good data" is analysed and constructive feedback is given.
By my understanding of it, things that will immediately result in a piece of feedback going in the "bad data" bin include (but are not limited to):
* "OMG, PvP now sucks, you've ruined it, sack Castle nao!"
* Zonal PvP is now broken.
* My Tank got pwned by a Defender.
Things that will provide more "good data" include (but are not limited to):
* Discussion of why ATs no longer fit their roles.
* Arena based team matches.
* Discussion of the "flow" and "feel" of PvP. Are you guaranteed to win? Do you feel nervous attacking another player? Is it too long? Too short? Did you find there was an "I win" power?
Those are the sorts of things that the devs need to know to be able to continue to develop the PvP system into something that is simultaneously balanced and exciting. Once Arena based PvP is settled, they are going to be looking at the Zones. So working with them is a good idea, because the sooner they settle on a decent Arena-based PvP game, then the real fun begins.
The wisdom of Shadowe: Ghostraptor: The Shadowe is wise ...; FFM: Shadowe is no longer wise.
; Techbot_Alpha: Also, what Shadowe said. It seems he is still somewhat wise 
; Bull Throttle: Shadowe was unwise in this instance...; Rock_Powerfist: in this instance Shadowe is wise.; Techbot_Alpha: Shadowe is very wise *nods*; Zortel: *Quotable line about Shadowe being wise goes here.*
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To say a blanket "there is nothing good about them" is actually barefaced lying.
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'Good' is a matter of opinion.
It is, but to say everything about PVp is now bad is lying as there are good changes there too, no matter what you class as good, but the doomsayers just wont admit it, they are so busy slagging it off.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
[ QUOTE ]
It is, but to say everything about PVp is now bad is lying as there are good changes there too, no matter what you class as good, but the doomsayers just wont admit it, they are so busy slagging it off.
[/ QUOTE ]
That all depends on what people class as good.
For me i have not found anything good about the changes and as such have hung up my pvp toons until more changes are done.
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It is, but to say everything about PVp is now bad is lying as there are good changes there too, no matter what you class as good, but the doomsayers just wont admit it, they are so busy slagging it off.
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That all depends on what people class as good.
For me i have not found anything good about the changes and as such have hung up my pvp toons until more changes are done.
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But it makes no difference,lol it couldnt be worse than it was as nobody was PVPing anyway!!
Thats the whole point. You and others moaning about how you have hung up your pvp toons is aa mute point as you obviously werent before as PVP was dead before all of this.
Zhaan, Chakyra, Fiorina 161, Aeryn, Polly Nation, Dee Pression, Shazanne, Night Jester and too many more to mention.
Network Hell 47640
Valley of the Harpies 74519
Green and Pleasant Land 75966
Sorry, I beg to differ.
PVP was *not* dead before I13. I whiled away many happy evenings in SC or RV. Sometimes there would only be 3 or 4 of us, but quite often more.
Arena PVP certainly wasn't dead. I could get a match whenever I wanted.
Fahie
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Firstly I wasn't flame baiting, I was agreeing with GR and saying that the changes are not all bad as people like you would like everyone to believe.
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The people throwing their toys out of their prams also resort to insults
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^ this is flame baiting.
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True, you are entitled to your view, but then so are other people, and you keep saying there is nothing positive in there at all is unhelpful as well as being untrue.
Certain ATs will find the changes better, certain ones worse, and imbalances will no doubt be looked at.
To say a blanket "there is nothing good about them" is actually barefaced lying.
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How can you say my opinion is a barefaced lie? To me there is nothing good, end of. If you want to disagree with me then feel free but do it by telling me why you think things are good, not just by dismissing my side of things.
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That all depends on what people class as good.
For me i have not found anything good about the changes and as such have hung up my pvp toons until more changes are done.
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Another person who agrees with me and another good active PvP'er being forced away from the aspect they love.
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But it makes no difference,lol it couldnt be worse than it was as nobody was PVPing anyway!!
Thats the whole point. You and others moaning about how you have hung up your pvp toons is aa mute point as you obviously werent before as PVP was dead before all of this.
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I haven't hung my cape up, i'm still here but i can fully empathise with those that have. Having the only thing that your currently interested in taken away from you or changed beyond recognition is disheartening.
I don't know Shockwave that well as he's on defiant and i'm on union but judging by his skill when i have played with him or watch him play it's clear he's an active PvP'er.
I was on every night doing some sort of PvP as was a fair few of my friends (Shotta, Falc, Gamete/Loar, Free Spirit, Narcosis, Prince and Dark Messiah. (Sure i've missed a few too.)) Who have now left. With Shockwave and crew on Defiant i have to ask.....
Where were you? There used to be loads more PvP than there is currently.
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle
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Of course this thing went live to get enough feedback.
There was no way it couldn't, even if every single PvP'er played around with it it's still too small of a group in my opinion.
Far more people'd have a look at it on Live than would on Test.
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Obviously live data is better than test data but Ex Libris said that the beta went poorly due to a lack of testers or because the people in the beta weren't testing what the dev's wanted them to.
My point was if they don't think they had enough people helping state side then there's plenty over here. Also telling the players about what they went testing would also help..... Something they'll do next time apparently
Here's the thread i've been reading if anyone wants a gander.
Linky
CoH PvP SG = SuperUnion - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
CoV PvP VG = Disruption - Co-Leader - Union/Freedom
Global = @Rent & @Rent.
Playgroup are all **** - Global Handle