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I agree with others, Posi is basically saying "OK we did it wrong but I can't admit it so I'll ignore it and introduce this so we can make it pre-I13" which in my mind says "So, Posi, why didn't you look over the changes you made?"
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This announcement is only possible now because the Dev team knew in advance that some of our PvP community would not like the changes, and would choose not to adapt to them. When you make changes on this scale there are always going to be existing players who are unhappy, and it simply makes sense to give them the option to continue playing the game they enjoy if that is possible.
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The Devs were aware in advance of the PvP communities dislike and refusal to adapt and yet they were invited into beta and then blamed for effectively unusable feedback and getting in the way of changes.
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The team are committed to making PvP in City of Heroes appeal to a larger audience, and they're committed to making improvements to Zone, Arena and Base PvP. The pre-Issue 13 PvP system isn't viable for the feature revamps on the way. Making pre-issue 13 PvP available via the Arena is a relatively simple thing to do, and makes sense for those who enjoyed that form of PvP.
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I cant find the post but i specifically remember Castle stating that this wasnt going to happen for a while if at all.
And what are these feature revamps? Please extrapolate as these are KILLER facts. One of the main reasons I have quit is because of the ludicrously overpowered mobs in RV. Overall it feels like a very unfinished and unpolished system now. You feel the pre-i13 system isnt viable for the rumored zone,arena and base revamps. Well I can accept that fact but by your own admission we are left with a system that doesnt suit the pre-i13 zone,arena and base pvp areas we still have?
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This is all well and good, but zone PvP isn't getting dealt with.
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Zone PvP will be addressed, it's already been mentioned that they have plans for a revamp.
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My point was if they don't think they had enough people helping state side then there's plenty over here. Also telling the players about what they went testing would also help..... Something they'll do next time apparently
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I think you've missed the most important part of what Ex Libris was saying in that post. The lack of testers was referring to early betas (one of which we did try including EU community in). For Issue 13 they brought in a significant number of PvP'ers: they knew they'd need them. What happened is that the feedback they received from the majority was effectively unusable and got in the way of being able to iterate changes.
I've seen from these forums that many of the changes made during beta were received positively. Many of those changes were sourced from the community members who took the time to provide high quality feedback. If all of the PvP community invited to I13 Closed Beta had taken that approach, then the number of iterations and improvements to the new system would quite probably have been higher.
It wasn't a lack of numbers that was the problem. It was a lack of testers willing to work with the dev team instead of throwing insults and demands. It is precisely the sort of things that I have removed from this thread (and some that I haven't but instead chosen to respond to) that hampered the development process for the Issue 13 PvP Revamp, and will continue to hamper the ongoing process of improving PvP in CoH.
The dev team want to communicate with the PvP community. Effective communication is a two way street, however: the PvP community needs to step up as well, and show that they're willing to communicate with the devs in a mature and reasonable manner. Throwing insults and responding to the dev team giving an option to play pre-Issue 13 PvP by making accusations like those in this thread does this community no good at all.
The folks at NCNC are stepping up on PvP and they're committing to improving PvP and bringing it to a larger audience. They're committing to revamping existing features and giving everyone a better PvP experience. It will take some time, but they're willing to work with you. The question is: will the PvP community step up as well, and work with the devs? Insults and accusations get you nothing. Communicating effectively just might get you a whole lot.
Edit to add: The community taking the initiative to put together a Test ladder and work together on testing and communicating is a grand start.
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Well where to start here. Allow me to distill the points - Due to pvp'ers in beta testing (that the devs were aware in advance would react this way) the Devs continued to push an unfinished system live. Added to the fact the devs were implementing a system intended for a new revamped pvp enviroment into the pre-i13 enviroment. Plus from my scanning of the US boards over this period there was little or no feedback to non beta pvp'ers. Further there was a distinct feeling that the devs couldnt care less about pvp'ers feelings. Culminating in LHs retracted statement. And statements from Castle felt as if he was digging his heels in, ie this is happening like it or not type statements. And little or no moves were made to stem the tide of pve'ers "CRY MOAR!" statements.
Now I know or hope the devs are not that arrogant or malicious. But the fact is this whole pvp roll out has been an absolute public relations disaster. Not to mention the disastrous pvp2 on live.
I understand the goals and have always supported the stated goals for pvp2.0. Afaik few of these goals are even close to being attained and some are further away than ever. Not to go into detail but- Having two whole ATs relegated to a relatively useless status goes way beyond pre-13 where admittedly a lot of sets were useless but at least there were viable builds for all ATs. Tankers and Stalkers becoming blappers is just plain odd. The new FOTM along with a few old ones are starting to appear. I'll leave it there as I have stated my ideas on what is wrong with i13pvp frequently and no one seems to care.
Ex and yourself are taking the first positive steps in repairing the bridges that got burned. Please move on and stop blaming the now departed US pvp community. It isnt helpful and isnt true. The failings are fact but the responsibility lies with the management of the business as ever. Blaming your customers is just one more awful PR move imo.
Asking the community to start a test ladder is harsh though. Seriously after what just happened to the test pvp'ers us side. Bad taste. This is exactly one area that needs action from the other side of the fence.
Show us your commitment. Devs organize an official version of a test server. Olive branch league or something.
Maybe then I will think about re-subscribing.
CHARNELL
